2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

[Herschel]

Yeah was just thinking about the somewhat unlikely hypothetical where both those guys maintain their current pace.

I just don't think 2 way game as prospects is particularly meaningful.

I think when considering Celebrini's 2-way game it is important to note a few things.

1) He did in at the NCAA level... far more transferable than being 2-way in Jr
2) He did it while producing at elite offensive levels... could he have scored more if he was cheating for offense like so many top tier prospects?

IMO, Celebrini's 2-way game speaks to the likelihood he matures into a clear top line centre at the NHL level. It displays the commitment to get better at all areas of his game. He is unlikely to lose that commitment.

There is a line I heard used to describe Crosby that I feel might end up applying to Celebrini.

"Crosby is the best at everything you can get better at."

I can't recall who said it but it they were speaking about the dozens of little skills like faceoffs, backhands, puck protection, tips that really only require time and dedication to master and how Crosby we relentless at continuously improve those things.

 

[LilLeeroy]

I think when considering Celebrini's 2-way game it is important to note a few things.

1) He did in at the NCAA level... far more transferable than being 2-way in Jr
2) He did it while producing at elite offensive levels... could he have scored more if he was cheating for offense like so many top tier prospects?

IMO, Celebrini's 2-way game speaks to the likelihood he matures into a clear top line centre at the NHL level. It displays the commitment to get better at all areas of his game. He is unlikely to lose that commitment.

There is a line I heard used to describe Crosby that I feel might end up applying to Celebrini.

"Crosby is the best at everything you can get better at."

I can't recall who said it but it they were speaking about the dozens of little skills like faceoffs, backhands, puck protection, tips that really only require time and dedication to master and how Crosby we relentless at continuously improve those things.

Crosby another great example of a guy who came in with elite offensive skills and iq, but a weak defensive game and gradually improved to be an elite all-around player.

 

[Juxtaposer]

So then is it looking like the top 3 prospects will likely be forwards? I know you take BPA, but man it’d be tempting to grab the highest available defenseman just due to our lack. That said, I suppose if you get a Hagens or whatever, it makes some of our other prospects more tradeable for a potential 1D.

Really depends on how Schaefer's season goes, I think he's the only D worthy of a top-5 pick at the moment but mono may have a drastic impact on his draft year production. Martone, McQueen, and Misa have all gone nuclear to start their CHL seasons. Hagens will have to dominate the NCAA statistically to the extent that Celebrini and Smith did last season in order to maintain his 1st overall status, which I think he will.

 

[Hodge]

Celebrini and McQueen down the middle with Smith and Eklund on the wings is intriguing. We'll have recreated Toronto's core four without having to pay anybody $11 million a year in free agency.

 

[Herschel]

Crosby another great example of a guy who came in with elite offensive skills and iq, but a weak defensive game and gradually improved to be an elite all-around player.

No question it is easier to develop the defensive side of the game than the offensive side but there are countless examples of offensive players who never approach NHL level defense.

Do scouts question Celebrini's hockey IQ?

 

[DG93]

No question it is easier to develop the defensive side of the game than the offensive side but there are countless examples of offensive players who never approach NHL level defense.

Do scouts question Celebrini's hockey IQ?

No, Celebrini is a brilliant player and I would argue his hockey IQ is one of his biggest strengths (+ leads to that attention to detail that everyone raves about and is extremely rare to see in a teenager).

 

[Jargon]

Penguins drafted three centers with top 2 picks three years in a row. I'd say it worked out pretty well for them.

Fair point! Yeah, I’m generally of the mind that, if we’re talking top 3-5 picks, you pick the best guy available and figure it out later. I just want to see us get that 1D at some point.

 

[Saskatoon]

Fair point! Yeah, I’m generally of the mind that, if we’re talking top 3-5 picks, you pick the best guy available and figure it out later. I just want to see us get that 1D at some point.

It's nicer to draft and develop but there are always trades and free agency

In the glory years so to speak the Sharks acquired Campbell, Boyle, Burns, and Karlsson as high end guys alone.

 

[Jargon]

It's nicer to draft and develop but there are always trades and free agency

In the glory years so to speak the Sharks acquired Campbell, Boyle, Burns, and Karlsson as high end guys alone.

Yeah for sure, and we can see from the Askarov trade that Grier is not afraid to aggressively go out and get what he wants.

 

[timorous me]

I think when considering Celebrini's 2-way game it is important to note a few things.

1) He did in at the NCAA level... far more transferable than being 2-way in Jr
2) He did it while producing at elite offensive levels... could he have scored more if he was cheating for offense like so many top tier prospects?

IMO, Celebrini's 2-way game speaks to the likelihood he matures into a clear top line centre at the NHL level. It displays the commitment to get better at all areas of his game. He is unlikely to lose that commitment.

There is a line I heard used to describe Crosby that I feel might end up applying to Celebrini.

"Crosby is the best at everything you can get better at."

I can't recall who said it but it they were speaking about the dozens of little skills like faceoffs, backhands, puck protection, tips that really only require time and dedication to master and how Crosby we relentless at continuously improve those things.

I know fans of other teams often love to hate on Crosby, but as someone who was in grad school in Pittsburgh when he was drafted and then through is first couple years, I've always taken a keen interest in watching the trajectory of his development and have had a hard time ever rooting against him (okay, 2016 was certainly once)--mostly because it's just been amazing to see his drive to get better in all these ways, which really can't be understated.

It also made me feel unfathomably old tonight hearing that he's starting his 20th season in the league. How is that even possible?!

 

[Star Platinum]

I know fans of other teams often love to hate on Crosby, but as someone who was in grad school in Pittsburgh when he was drafted and then through is first couple years, I've always taken a keen interest in watching the trajectory of his development and have had a hard time ever rooting against him (okay, 2016 was certainly once)--mostly because it's just been amazing to see his drive to get better in all these ways, which really can't be understated.

It also made me feel unfathomably old tonight hearing that he's starting his 20th season in the league. How is that even possible?!

What really makes you feel old as a sports fan is when the current players are sons of guys you rooted for when you were younger

 

[StanleyCup2035]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844877952661569702

 

[The Nemesis]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844946545449238573

guess who's leading the WHL in goals and would look good in teal at the next draft?

 

[matt trick]

Martone with 16 points in 6 games to lead the OHL scoring. Misa has 12 in 5. McQueen off to a hot start in the WHL as well.

Should be a real strong top 5-10. Great news for us, but unfortunately great news for Chicago and Anaheim as well

Hope we can add some more draft capital this year as there are lots of interesting pieces.

 

[Bowie22]

This top 5 or so is gunna be bonkers

 

[Grinner]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844946545449238573

guess who's leading the WHL in goals and would look good in teal at the next draft?

Smurf!

 

[matt trick]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844946545449238573

guess who's leading the WHL in goals and would look good in teal at the next draft?

With our first obviously you go BPA no matter what, but with our 2nd id love to get (or trade up for) something that fills a future need- big wingers, RHD, or a grab and stash top goalie prospect. The last thing I want is a Uber high skill 5’8 forward, and yet, Schmidt and Benak look freaking awesome. They look like the type of bets you take and maybe just maybe get a Caufield type. Those types are just so damn rare though.

 

[coooldude]

With our first obviously you go BPA no matter what, but with our 2nd id love to get (or trade up for) something that fills a future need- big wingers, RHD, or a grab and stash top goalie prospect. The last thing I want is a Uber high skill 5’8 forward, and yet, Schmidt and Benak look freaking awesome. They look like the type of bets you take and maybe just maybe get a Caufield type. Those types are just so damn rare though.

It's tempting, but I think given our pipeline and timeline, you leave those players to others and hope that our smaller fwds hit. We don't want to be overweight in the "amazing little guy" category and we already are.

As for need, it's probably still top D preferably RD, top C/W, more big mobile D, more big mobile F. I think with Askarov, we're no longer in need of a stronger goalie pipeline.

 

[YUPPY 2 7 10 11]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844946545449238573

guess who's leading the WHL in goals and would look good in teal at the next draft?

So we'll have G. Smith, W. Smith, C. Schmidt in the same game. Randy Hahn is rolling his eyes.

 

[The Nemesis]

So we'll have G. Smith, W. Smith, C. Schmidt in the same game. Randy Hahn is rolling his eyes.

Trade for Craig Smith, Reilly Smith, and Brendan Smith, then hire Jason Smith as an assistant coach and Mike Smith as an assistant goalie coach.

 

[The Nemesis]

hope that our smaller fwds hit. We don't want to be overweight in the "amazing little guy" category and we already are.

What?

Our sub-6-foot forward prospects are:

C: Bordeleau, Jacobsson
LW: Lol, they're all giants
RW: Cardwell, Guschchin, Muldowney, Robins

Of that group you've got Gushchin and Bordeleau who might be middle-6 guys and support scorers but neither is necessarily a strong bet at this point (Gush more than Bordeleau but make no mistake, as much as I want Gushchin to get some run to at least prove things one way or the other, I'm not holding my breath for him to be a 25-30 goal NHLer or anything like that). Cardwell looks like a high-energy 3rd liner. Robins tops out probably as a grindy 4th liner if he makes it at all, Jacobsson is a longshot to do anything, and Muldowney is inconsequential barring some sort of all-time career resurrection

Even if you include the defenders that only adds Cagnoni, Havelid, and Pohlkamp and it seems not unreasonable to assume that the odds are maybe we hit on 1/3 of them.

Obviously, yes I'm a homer here. I have watched probably close to 70 Schmidt games over the last 2 and a bit years and he plays for my favorite jr team. But to suggest that the team should shy away from small skill players because they're awash in that exact archetype doesn't seem to line up. Currently the team has 9 total players who check in under 6 feet and the only one who looks like a strong bet to carve out a consequential NHL career at this point is the one who probably ends up on your 3rd line and you're happy if he gets you 10-15 goals a season (Cardwell). The next ones up are a couple of the d-men who would be limited by the fact that you probably can't run with 1/3rd of your d corps undersized unless at least one of them turns into a peak-Vlasic positional defending god to overcome their height deficiencies.

It's entirely possible Schmidt busts, yes. And I would not be picking him if the Sharks finish with a top 5 pick as they expect to. But if they can bilk some playoff team out of a 1st round pick in the back 3rd of the round in exchange for one of their vereteran rental/"playoff ready" guys, then Schmidt is the gamble I would take because if he hits you've got a super dynamic weapon for Celebrini or Smith to work with and it doesn't matter if he's tiny given his skill and the fact that while he won't be able to be as physical in the pros as he is in junior, he's not out there playing a wrecking ball style and the fact that he can be physical now against bigger WHL opponents means that he will have a bit easier time handling some of the rigors of the pro game if he just dials it back a bit.

Before the team traded for Askarov, he's who I would've been angling to use that Vegas pick on if we figure Vegas is anywhere close to a playoff team.

 

[coooldude]

What?

Our sub-6-foot forward prospects are:

C: Bordeleau, Jacobsson
LW: Lol, they're all giants
RW: Cardwell, Guschchin, Muldowney, Robins

Of that group you've got Gushchin and Bordeleau who might be middle-6 guys and support scorers but neither is necessarily a strong bet at this point (Gush more than Bordeleau but make no mistake, as much as I want Gushchin to get some run to at least prove things one way or the other, I'm not holding my breath for him to be a 25-30 goal NHLer or anything like that). Cardwell looks like a high-energy 3rd liner. Robins tops out probably as a grindy 4th liner if he makes it at all, Jacobsson is a longshot to do anything, and Muldowney is inconsequential barring some sort of all-time career resurrection

Even if you include the defenders that only adds Cagnoni, Havelid, and Pohlkamp and it seems not unreasonable to assume that the odds are maybe we hit on 1/3 of them.

Obviously, yes I'm a homer here. I have watched probably close to 70 Schmidt games over the last 2 and a bit years and he plays for my favorite jr team. But to suggest that the team should shy away from small skill players because they're awash in that exact archetype doesn't seem to line up. Currently the team has 9 total players who check in under 6 feet and the only one who looks like a strong bet to carve out a consequential NHL career at this point is the one who probably ends up on your 3rd line and you're happy if he gets you 10-15 goals a season (Cardwell). The next ones up are a couple of the d-men who would be limited by the fact that you probably can't run with 1/3rd of your d corps undersized unless at least one of them turns into a peak-Vlasic positional defending god to overcome their height deficiencies.

It's entirely possible Schmidt busts, yes. And I would not be picking him if the Sharks finish with a top 5 pick as they expect to. But if they can bilk some playoff team out of a 1st round pick in the back 3rd of the round in exchange for one of their vereteran rental/"playoff ready" guys, then Schmidt is the gamble I would take because if he hits you've got a super dynamic weapon for Celebrini or Smith to work with and it doesn't matter if he's tiny given his skill and the fact that while he won't be able to be as physical in the pros as he is in junior, he's not out there playing a wrecking ball style and the fact that he can be physical now against bigger WHL opponents means that he will have a bit easier time handling some of the rigors of the pro game if he just dials it back a bit.

Before the team traded for Askarov, he's who I would've been angling to use that Vegas pick on if we figure Vegas is anywhere close to a playoff team.

I include Eklund, Smith as guys with less size than you'd love. So my list of top Sharks F prospects/ young guns who are not big and maybe small are, in order of importance: Smith, Eklund, Gushchin, Cardwell, Bordeleau. That's a big pipeline IMHO. If we take out Smith because he's a C and higher end than the rest, it's still 4 prospects who could all be the small skill winger in the top 6 (and Cardwell the only one who might be able to survive in the bottom 6 successfully). Even if Schmidt is amazing, I'd rather take our chances on a prospect like Amico, Mrzek, or any number of whichever D prospects fall to 10-25.

I know you love Schmidt and I haven't watched him at all. I would have been heavily biased towards a D prospect at VGK's pick because that's where we're thin. But it's all moot since we don't have that pick. I don't know nearly enough about the 25-40 range or Schmidt to say whether I'd be excited about him at 33-35. You have your homer bias, and I'm biased against small scoring wingers.

 

[YUPPY 2 7 10 11]

Yeah for sure, and we can see from the Askarov trade that Grier is not afraid to aggressively go out and get what he wants.

good, then GMMG can get us Ryan Leonard to play with Will Smith...

 

[sampler]

Id love to see the sharks focus on getting at least 1, if not 2 high end D. Right now the pipeline has Dickinson, LSW, Pohlcamp, Cagnoni, Thompson, and Pohlcamp with a shot and I guess Misskey and roberts are there too.

I am not sold that any of these will be top pairing guys. Definitely potential is there, and its not a bad group for an average team.

That said, we have a #1 goalie, top 2 centers (maybe 3 if you include bystedt), and serveral high end wings with musty, haltunnen, cherny, not to mention Eklund and Gushkin and cardwell, and my top watched prospect, rimashevsky.

As such, I think we could use two more high end defensive prospects if possible, so I would target those. I also think high end are harder to get via trade/UFA than high end forwards, so drafting top D would be nice.

All that said, I would be fine if the sharks dealt a pick or two in a package with one of the forwards to acquire a solid top pairing young NHL Dman. obviously, not a top 5 pick...

 

[wickedwitch]

All that said, I would be fine if the sharks dealt a pick or two in a package with one of the forwards to acquire a solid top pairing young NHL Dman. obviously, not a top 5 pick...

It may be hard if not impossible to get a young, top pairing D if you aren't willing to trade a top 5 pick.