OT: 2024 Soccer and Vancouver Whitecaps Thread

[DFAC]

As a fan without a rooting interest, I think this is a garbage take.

England lost 2-1 on a late goal to the best team in the tournament. If they were "total frauds," then Southgate is to be congratulated for getting them that far. A fraudulent team has nothing to "blow."

The final was full of glorious soccer, amazing individual and collective skill from both sides.

England got incredibly lucky with the draw and probably weren't even a top 3 team in the tournament. Spain was clearly a cut above England.

The real final was Spain vs Germany or Spain vs France

 

[Lindgren]

England got incredibly lucky with the draw and probably weren't even a top 3 team in the tournament.

The real final was Spain vs Germany or Spain vs France

"incredibly lucky" is an overstatement. I think there's serious confirmation bias going on here (generally, not just you).

One indication of that bias is the habit of describing England's approach as fearful. I didn't see fear—just a strategic approach, nothing more. They approached things differently when they were down a goal (of course).

 

[Bubbles]

"incredibly lucky" is an overstatement. I think there's serious confirmation bias going on here (generally, not just you).

One indication of that bias is the habit of describing England's approach as fearful. I didn't see fear—just a strategic approach, nothing more. They approached things differently when they were down a goal (of course).

It's not bias. Literally every English paper, soccer website and discussion off and on the internet have criticized England's play all tournament. England has only turned it on and off in spurts in certain games. Spain has played the same way through 7 games they all won.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

It's not bias. Literally every English paper, soccer website and discussion off and on the internet have criticized England's play all tournament. England has only turned it on and off in spurts in certain games. Spain has played the same way through 7 games they all won.

Gareth Southgate has the players to play a high press attacking style of football but he literally settled down into a game were they were content at taking their chances on counters and giving up the midfield. They played right into Spain's gameplan

It was the same sort of story in the 2020 Euro's where Southgate literally decided to bring all 10 back to defend and allowed the Italian midfield to dictate the middle.

His personnel choices should be questioned. Rice, Kane and Foden were just too inconsistent and non factors but kept seeing time this tournamemt.

 

[Bubbles]

Gareth Southgate has the players to play a high press attacking style of football but he literally settled down into a game were they were content at taking their chances on counters and giving up the midfield. They played right into Spain's gameplan

It was the same sort of story in the 2020 Euro's where Southgate literally decided to bring all 10 back to defend and allowed the Italian midfield to dictate the middle.

His personnel choices should be questioned. Rice, Kane and Foden were just too inconsistent and non factors but kept seeing time this tournamemt.

Foden just ran around but couldn't make that final pass. Most of the English players couldn't do it. Kane was a shadow of himself and it's beginning of a decline.

Palmer should have played instead of Foden. Their back 4 or 5 is actually solid.

 

[Lindgren]

It's not bias. Literally every English paper, soccer website and discussion off and on the internet have criticized England's play all tournament. England has only turned it on and off in spurts in certain games. Spain has played the same way through 7 games they all won.

Really? "Literally every" outlet has criticized their play "all "tournament? Overstatement. It took me two minutes to find this article in the Guardian:

Gareth Southgate’s only crime lies in giving England fans what they want

England isn't a perfect team, of course, and Spain is better, had a better tournament, and was the best team in the final. But if fans can't watch and appreciate lots of the stuff England do as a team, along with brilliant individual moments from Foden, Bellingham, Pickford, etc., that's just sad.

 

[Lindgren]

Also, the Whitecaps won their last match, 4-1 vs St. Louis.

 

[God]

england might have legitimately won both euro finals plus finished deep in the world cup had they not implemented a strange stifling style of play, which does fall on southgate. their talent is enough to win them games and it's legitimately baffling watching them play like that with the best players in the world. it's like if the maple leafs started playing like the la kings.

across the entire tournament they generated fewer xG than croatia, who were out in the group stage.

i am not complaining, though. i love hating on england.

 

[LordBacon]

Be real, England was extremely lucky to be in the finals.

 

[LandfiII]

Congrats to Spain! 4th time champions, and they were the best throughout the tournament.

Seeing England lose is like seeing the Oilers lose in Game 7. Southgate gets to disappoint for another 4 years lol. They played scared football through the games and always hoped they would equalize late in games.

england are the leafs are the cowboys are england are the leafs are the...

 

[StreetHawk]

The security needed for the WC games is going to be crazy after seeing what transpired before the final game in Miami. Guess, it depends on which nations we end up with.

Every single host has to be prepared for a similar situation. Gotta think they need to figure out how to thin out the crowd before they get to the gates to ensure people don't get potentially crushed.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

The security needed for the WC games is going to be crazy after seeing what transpired before the final game in Miami. Guess, it depends on which nations we end up with.

Every single host has to be prepared for a similar situation. Gotta think they need to figure out how to thin out the crowd before they get to the gates to ensure people don't get potentially crushed.

Not worried.

Copa America organizers totally cheaped out and failed to have an secure fan entry zone along with adequate security. It may be a while before the USA hosts a CONMEBOL event.

FIFA will have an unlimited sum at their disposal (thanks to taxpayers) who will bolster security around venues and party zones.

 

[Hit the post]

Be real, England was extremely lucky to be in the finals.

When Napoleon was told about the abilities about a prospective General for one of his divisions, he would rumored to have asked "but is he lucky,,?".

 

[VanJack]

From my vantage point, this COPA America tournament bordered on a 'complete fiasco'. Lax security; unruly fans; atrocious playing surfaces that robbed the top players being able to put their best boot forward; and questionable, at times even biased refereeing, aided and abetted by players rolling around on the pitch in mock agony.

Despite what should have been compelling drama, some of these games bordered on 'unwatchable'. Part of it was undoubtedly the crippling heat, that robbed players of energy and stamina as the matches progressed.

But the NA World Cup organizing committees will have some work to do after they assess this tournament. The entire world will be watching in 2026, and they simply have to do a lot better.

 

[StreetHawk]

Not worried.

Copa America organizers totally cheaped out and failed to have an secure fan entry zone along with adequate security. It may be a while before the USA hosts a CONMEBOL event.

FIFA will have an unlimited sum at their disposal (thanks to taxpayers) who will bolster security around venues and party zones.

yeah, sounds like the organizers took over the security and didn't use the what could have been available to them. Which is insane given that Miami has hosted SuperBowls. Hope those who had valid tickets and didn't get in file a class action and get their money x 10-20 from the event organizers. That was ridiculous....

The World Cup will take place around the same time frame in 2 years. From June 11 to July 19. Some of those cities were also used in COPA, so what we got this year is likely to be what we get in 2 years. For maximum eyeballs, they are not going to let the games start too late as they want to get the European eyeballs on the games and that's at least a 5 hr time zone difference for the East Coast.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Despite what should have been compelling drama, some of these games bordered on 'unwatchable'. Part of it was undoubtedly the crippling heat, that robbed players of energy and stamina as the matches progressed.

100%. Seeing an official pass out due to the heat was jarring. You just wonder whether or not the federations will soon push to have these tournaments outside of the summer season. Either April/May or September/October. Heatwaves are only going to get more intense and these are bringing insane humidex values.

They already pushed one WC to December.

 

[StreetHawk]

100%. Seeing an official pass out due to the heat was jarring. You just wonder whether or not the federations will soon push to have these tournaments outside of the summer season. Either April/May or September/October. Heatwaves are only going to get more intense and these are bringing insane humidex values.

They already pushed one WC to December.

Might have to. July in places like Miami, KC and NE USA can be really humid.

But the schedule (June to July) is already set for the WC. May need to do more morning starts if the weather is very humid. If they go at 8pm EST that’s like 1am and later for Europe.

 

[VanJack]

It was only a matter of time until the relentless march of climate change would begin to take its toll on athletes, amateur and professional alike.

I see officials are warning athletes competing in the Paris Olympics, that they will need to adjust their training methods and competition strategies, to compensate for the impact of extreme temperatures on the human body.

The training methods of yesterday, simply don't prepare athletes for what they're facing today. And there's a real danger of heat-related collapses or damage to internal organs if heat-stress is left untreated.

The hard reality is sports like soccer, or track and field might have to contemplate a 'summer siesta'. It may no longer be realistically possible to play outdoors between June and August in some sports which have high cardio-vascular demands.

But as we all know, climate change is 'the Incremental Armageddon'. Despite the planet experiencing the hottest 12 months in a row on record, there are still skeptics, doubters and procrastinators. And they almost ensure that our world's 'broil-over' will continued unabated.

 

[StreetHawk]

It was only a matter of time until the relentless march of climate change would begin to take its toll on athletes, amateur and professional alike.

I see officials are warning athletes competing in the Paris Olympics, that they will need to adjust their training methods and competition strategies, to compensate for the impact of extreme temperatures on the human body.

The training methods of yesterday, simply don't prepare athletes for what they're facing today. And there's a real danger of heat-related collapses or damage to internal organs if heat-stress is left untreated.

The hard reality is sports like soccer, or track and field might have to contemplate a 'summer siesta'. It may no longer be realistically possible to play outdoors between June and August in some sports which have high cardio-vascular demands.

But as we all know, climate change is 'the Incremental Armageddon'. Despite the planet experiencing the hottest 12 months in a row on record, there are still skeptics, doubters and procrastinators. And they almost ensure that our world's 'broil-over' will continued unabated.

We don't put that kind of stress on our bodies nowadays. So, it will be a massive shock to the system when the athletes are exposed to intense heat. Corey Stringer passing away at NFL training camp changed things for the NFL with more water breaks and practicing in the morning and evenings vs in the middle of the afternoon. (which coincides with game time once the season begins, which for very humid cities, can result in a lot of cramping in September).

But, what are the schedule makers doing to combat the intense heat and humidity? Last thing you want is a competitor dying of heat exhaustion. Summer Olympics in July-August may no longer be an option. Might need to push that to anywhere from April-June moving forward.

 

[tradervik]

Hockey can become the summer sport.

 

[VanJack]

Hockey can become the summer sport.

You know, this might make a lot more sense than you might realize. The modern buildings aren't the sweatboxes they used to be. They're all climate-controlled and air conditioned.

Hockey is already a year-round sport, and lots of international tournaments are now played in July and throughout August. And an April to September schedule would get the NHL away from head-to-head competition with the NBA and the last half of the NFL schedule.

The only direct competition would be MLB and MLS--and they're poorer relations as far as pro sports go.

Of course as we know it'll never happen. Hockey is entrenched in the eyes of many as being played with toques and on frozen ponds. But with the overheating planet, nothing should be off the table.

 

[StreetHawk]

You know, this might make a lot more sense than you might realize. The modern buildings aren't the sweatboxes they used to be. They're all climate-controlled and air conditioned.

Hockey is already a year-round sport, and lots of international tournaments are now played in July and throughout August. And an April to September schedule would get the NHL away from head-to-head competition with the NBA and the last half of the NFL schedule.

The only direct competition would be MLB and MLS--and they're poorer relations as far as pro sports go.

Of course as we know it'll never happen. Hockey is entrenched in the eyes of many as being played with toques and on frozen ponds. But with the overheating planet, nothing should be off the table.

Up to a certain extent. When filled with 18K of fans, not sure most places in the middle of the summer the ice quality would hold up compared to even a game in April or May.

 

[VanJack]

Up to a certain extent. When filled with 18K of fans, not sure most places in the middle of the summer the ice quality would hold up compared to even a game in April or May.

I've never been to T-Mobile Arena in Vegas, but I'm advised that even early in the spring, temperatures can hit 100 degrees (F)......and the fans who attended games looked pretty comfortable to me, at least on TV.

More importantly the ice is holding up well, even as the NHL playoffs spread into May and most of June in the Southern U.S. But pretty hard to not to concede that serious summer hockey will never happen.

 

[canadianmagpie]

Gareth Southgate has the players to play a high press attacking style of football but he literally settled down into a game were they were content at taking their chances on counters and giving up the midfield. They played right into Spain's gameplan

It was the same sort of story in the 2020 Euro's where Southgate literally decided to bring all 10 back to defend and allowed the Italian midfield to dictate the middle.

His personnel choices should be questioned. Rice, Kane and Foden were just too inconsistent and non factors but kept seeing time this tournamemt.

Late to the game on this but as an England supporter, but of the bolded, only style is accurate. England play much more of a passive defense as they encourage passes into the centre before swarming the player to cause a turnover. They were more than happy to have the other team pass it amongst their backline. If England wanted to play that style, then Eddie Howe from Newcastle would be their coach. The demands from Howe of his players mean they're probably one of the teams that require the most stamina.

England could have played that attacking style but Southgate had a number of mistakes in team selection. First, he fell into the Lampard/Gerrard issue from a number of years ago by trying to cram in the country's best players into a style that negated their effectiveness. To which your comment on inconsistent and non-factors I agree with for the most part. Foden was one of the most dangerous players but he plays through the centre for Manchester City, which is where they were playing Bellingham. So Foden, who was on the left kept drifting into the centre which allowed defenders to cover both players and potentially double-team them without too much effort. It's not much of a surprise that you see Bellingham score immediately after Foden is subbed off. The other issue is Kane was useless. Whether he's still recovering from the back injury he had, he was nothing like his former self just jogging as the defense passed the ball around him. He also kept trying to get into the play by dropping back in the midfield which meant there was no outlet for his teammates which just ended up gifting possession back. Toney or Watkins should have gotten more playing time. Again, England should have done a Newcastle and allowed Kane to remain team captain (like Lascelles) but not play him day-in, day-out. I actually think that Rice did well, but that the choice of his partner in midfield was questionable. Wharton was extremely impressive in the games I saw him play with Crystal Palace yet got no minutes. It seems unless you play for Manchester City or United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea or Tottenham, you have a huge mountain to overcome to get into the first 11 of England.

His style got results, but he was extremely lucky on a number of occasions. Yes, England got to the final, but honestly? They didn't deserve to get out of the group stage in my opinion. They only played well in the semi-final against the Dutch.

Spain deserved the trophy. They were much more positive than England were and their high-press was much more impressive and the commitment from the players was evident. When you see Morata do a sliding tackle to prevent a defensive clearance, you can see that Spain bought into the style of play. Not something you saw from the English players.

 

[Frostage]

Watched the Whitecaps the other day. Ali Ahmed looked quite fast and dangerous.