OT: 2024 Soccer and Vancouver Whitecaps Thread

[Red]

^The first tweet needs more context. Jesse Marsch learned about staff wanting to do it at Copa and immediately told them to stop. He at least seems clean in this.

I agree Herdman is lying. Herdman didn't "get out of dodge," he has at minimum been complicit in the past. This is his quote from WCQ and he's very clearly playing dumb for plausible deniability (Honduras spotted a drone filming them over BMO prior to their WCQ game against us):

Two years later, Honduras stopped a training session in Toronto during World Cup qualifiers after someone spotted a drone overhead.

“I’d imagine there’s probably a lot of people in Canada that fly drones, I’m sure,” then-Canada coach John Herdman said at the time. “And when a big team like Honduras turn up I’m sure people are probably interested in what they’re doing when they come into our country. So I know for sure we won’t be heading into people’s countries too early because with drones these days, people can obviously capture footage. You’ve got to be really careful. So yeah, you got to be careful in CONCACAF. It’s a tricky place.”

Some staff and contractors were told the filming was part of their jobs and that they could lose their positions with the federation if they did not go along with the demands, one of the sources said in a series of interviews with TSN on Wednesday and Thursday.

In the clip above, notice also that Herdman says it wasn't done at an Olympics or World Cup under his watch. What about World Cup Qualifying? Gold Cup? Nations League? Those are lower level stakes sure, but they're still competitive matches.

 

[credulous]

it's embarassing they got caught but this kind of thing happens at the highest levels of every sport. you're delusional if you think the canucks aren't leveraging "grey market" information on their playoff opponents

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

In the clip above, notice also that Herdman says it wasn't done at an Olympics or World Cup under his watch. What about World Cup Qualifying? Gold Cup? Nations League? Those are lower level stakes sure, but they're still competitive matches.

It's very easy to get away with this on home turf at open air venues (Edmonton, Hamilton, Toronto) with minimal security during practices.

 

[Bubbles]

Oh this is getting juicy. After Herdman's statement, here is another article from Rick Westhead.

Canadian men's team shown video of Honduran practice during World Cup qualifying, source says | TSN

Canadian men's team shown video of Honduran practice during World Cup qualifying, source says.​

One former Canada Soccer employee said spying on opposing team practices has been a tactic used since at least 2016, when the women’s national Under-16 team played in a Concacaf tournament in Saint George, Grenada. At that tournament, staff discussed how a colleague had found a place to stay hidden and spy on opponent practices and also talked about how they needed to patrol the perimeter of their own training centre, the source said.

LOL a U-16 tournament?

 

[ziploc]

If they did this, they should be out of the Olympics and should forfeit their international wins. Sucks for the players - though it sounds like in one of the clips they were privy to the filming, which presumably they know is wrong. And yeah, probably a bunch of clubs do it, but so what? It's wrong. I hated it when the Patriots did it, and I hate this.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

If they did this, they should be out of the Olympics and should forfeit their international wins. Sucks for the players - though it sounds like in one of the clips they were privy to the filming, which presumably they know is wrong. And yeah, probably a bunch of clubs do it, but so what? It's wrong. I hated it when the Patriots did it, and I hate this.

Absolutely.

I bet other nations do this but the way we got caught and have gone about this is totally pathetic.

Herdman is a total clown.

 

[Red]

Seventeen players on Canada’s men’s national soccer team attended a briefing on Aug. 31, 2021, in a Toronto hotel ballroom and watched as head coach John Herdman played a video that showed the Honduran national team’s closed practice a day earlier, a source with first-hand knowledge of the meeting told TSN.

Canada would play Honduras in a World Cup qualifier on Sept. 2 (the teams tied 1-1) and an intense Herdman urged his players to study the screen closely, the source said.

Herdman explained that the Honduran team favoured a 4-4-2 formation with either a medium or a high press and that simplicity was the key to Canada being successful in the important game, the source said.

Canadian men's team shown video of Honduran practice during World Cup qualifying, source says | TSN

Seventeen players on Canada’s men’s national soccer team attended a briefing on Aug. 31, 2021 and watched as head coach John Herdman played a video that showed the Honduran national team’s closed practice a day earlier, a source told TSN.

www.tsn.ca

Just ridiculous. You can literally know the formation that a team favours by watching enough tape. So much reputational loss for the CMNT and CWNT over something so unnecessary, and just when they were finally starting to get sponsorships again with the Copa success and World Cup 2026. And it just makes his words earlier more weasel-y. Didn't do it at the World Cup under his watch (too big a stage), but sure did it during World Cup qualifying.

Just dump the whole coaching staff on both the national teams except Jesse Marsch and just start fresh.

 

[MS]

I liked Herdman but this is just disgusting.

Credit to Marsch for having some actual balls to do the right thing.

 

[EpochLink]

This sorta sucks honestly, both the woman and men's programs have had such a good run these past few years. Now, they are being mocked and ridiculed for this. Unfair to the players and the national program should be embarrassed this has surfaced.

Shameful.

 

[DFAC]

Embarrassing.

 

[tradervik]

As far as cheating in sports goes, this takes me all the way back to Ben Johnson. He was far from the only athlete using PEDs but he was caught in such spectacular fashion.

 

[StreetHawk]

Sinclair is saying she never saw drone footage. I don’t doubt her claims but if the coaches saw the footage and used that info to devise their game plan then the team benefitted from the drone footage.

 

[God]

6 point deduction for the women's team. It's harsh given that the coaches have been banned already and the team has been fined a hefty sum, so it falls entirely on the players. Wonder if they can appeal it.

On another note, saw someone speculate that a certain former Toronto FC player might be the source of the leaks, and I am...maybe buying into it.

 

[ziploc]

6 point deduction for the women's team. It's harsh given that the coaches have been banned already and the team has been fined a hefty sum, so it falls entirely on the players.

It's gotta be done. Whether they were privy to it or not they benefitted from the cheating. I thought the team might get sent home and their gold medals from the last olympics stripped. That could still happen of course.

Soccer Canada needs a culture change.

 

[God]

It's gotta be done. Whether they were privy to it or not they benefitted from the cheating. I thought the team might get sent home and their gold medals from the last olympics stripped. That could still happen of course.

Soccer Canada needs a culture change.

For sure, it's hard to complain about whatever punishment is handed down when they were caught red handed. Something that does intrigue me is examples of how little people like Drogba seem to care about this - at the end of the day, it provides them a slight advantage, but you also have to execute on the pitch. And Canada has never been great at soccer but they certainly had to perform, and they did. Hearing Marsh was adamantly against it is nice to hear given the recent success at the Copa America.

 

[MS]

It’s a harsh punishment - essentially kicks them out of the Olympics - but it’s hard to argue that it isn’t fair.

Sure would be nice if, say, the Chinese swimmers faced the same sort of harsh fair punishments for rampant systemic cheating, though.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

It’s a harsh punishment - essentially kicks them out of the Olympics - but it’s hard to argue that it isn’t fair.

Sure would be nice if, say, the Chinese swimmers faced the same sort of harsh fair punishments for rampant systemic cheating, though.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1817267910488027256

 

[Jyrki]

Lucky that the team didn't have past achievements striped from them tbh. To be caught with the hand on the cookie jar, there's no way to spin it as some sort of injustice or cynical punishment against a lesser country.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Lucky that the team didn't have past achievements striped from them tbh. To be caught with the hand on the cookie jar, there's no way to spin it as some sort of injustice or cynical punishment against a lesser country.

This might still be on the table. Westhead did say this went on in Tokyio.

 

[StreetHawk]

It's gotta be done. Whether they were privy to it or not they benefitted from the cheating. I thought the team might get sent home and their gold medals from the last olympics stripped. That could still happen of course.

Soccer Canada needs a culture change.

Players don't need to be shown the footage. If coaches are using the info obtained to adjust their game plan, then the players did benefit from the cheating without their knowledge. That sucks for them. Always, the people at the top.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

i wanna know if sincy knew

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

i wanna know if sincy knew

She denied it via IG.

 

[StreetHawk]

She denied it via IG.

No reason to show the actual footage to the players. If the coaches devise a gameplan based off the footage then it helps the unknowing players.

 

[VanJack]

This should be 'the end of the line' for Soccer Canada, as it's currently constituted. Just like Hockey Canada before it after the World Jr. Hockey sexual assault allegations game to light, the Feds need to step in and blow it up.

What's frustrating is that fans, the media and even the players have been saying this for years about Soccer Canada, but nothing ever gets done.

But sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before the light bulb goes on and the people in charge take action. We're past that point now.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

This should be 'the end of the line' for Soccer Canada, as it's currently constituted. Just like Hockey Canada before it after the World Jr. Hockey sexual assault allegations game to light, the Feds need to step in and blow it up.

What's frustrating is that fans, the media and even the players have been saying this for years about Soccer Canada, but nothing ever gets done.

But sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before the light bulb goes on and the people in charge take action. We're past that point now.

Kevin Blue and Jesse Marsch would seem like a good step in the right direction. He says without knowing. But I feel good about Jesse and wanna about Big Kev.