Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[tomd]

I'm not against players that fill our needs. Like a Forbot, or a Hall or some real top 6 forward. I just don't want other teams dumps. Casualties are different. I also don't have interest in moving Gibson. Rico at the tdl is a TDL decision. Won't affect this draft imo.

Yes, ideally it would be great to get a cap casualty and be paid for it but don't be closed minded about taking a 1 year cap dump and being paid for it as well.

I mentioned Gibson only because HE wants out (if the rumors are to be believed). If those rumors are not true then PV won't trade him IMO. But there has been no denial from either Gibson himself, his agent, or the team.

Henrique is likely a TDL deal unless PV gets an offer that is too good to pass up...and I don't think he will.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

We currently have 3 2nd round picks; and we need another one why?

Sorry for not being clear. I think we need to draft a goalie. I don’t think we need another draft pick.

 

[Bergey37]

Sorry for not being clear. I think we need to draft a goalie. I don’t think we need another draft pick.

Thank you; I agree about the goalie.

 

[Bergey37]

Yes, ideally it would be great to get a cap casualty and be paid for it but don't be closed minded about taking a 1 year cap dump and being paid for it as well.

I mentioned Gibson only because HE wants out (if the rumors are to be believed). If those rumors are not true then PV won't trade him IMO. But there has been no denial from either Gibson himself, his agent, or the team.

Henrique is likely a TDL deal unless PV gets an offer that is too good to pass up...and I don't think he will.

I think you and I just fundamentally disagree about the value of cap dumps. I agree with @DavidBL that a cap casualty that would actually help us would be great; but I am very leery of cap dumps, even for one year. They cost not just money, but a roster spot which could be used to rotate rookies through, unless you plan to sit the guy in the press box most of the season, or bury him in the minors. Not to mention that money not spent on player salaries can be used for other purposes in the organization - we still have a budget. Right now, I'm far more interested in acquiring players who actually help, and I'm very wary of using cap space (and money) on something I consider wasteful. In my mind, an extra pick doesn't help us now, and a cap-dump player gets in the way.

It's not the first time we've disagreed, and it certainly won't be the last.

 

[tomd]

I think you and I just fundamentally disagree about the value of cap dumps. I agree with @DavidBL that a cap casualty that would actually help us would be great; but I am very leery of cap dumps, even for one year. They cost not just money, but a roster spot which could be used to rotate rookies through, unless you plan to sit the guy in the press box most of the season, or bury him in the minors. Not to mention that money not spent on player salaries can be used for other purposes in the organization - we still have a budget. Right now, I'm far more interested in acquiring players who actually help, and I'm very wary of using cap space (and money) on something I consider wasteful. In my mind, an extra pick doesn't help us now, and a cap-dump player gets in the way.

It's not the first time we've disagreed, and it certainly won't be the last.

Let me give you 3/4 examples of "good" cap dump acquisitions:
Bailey NYI
Myers (Vanc) after his bonus is paid
Reilly (Boston)
Forbort (Boston)

All of the above players could slide right into the Ducks lineup next year and (1) be better than the guys they were replacing last year and (2) not take away a spot from a rookie.

And speaking of rookies, who among the prospects is absolutely ready to be a full-time NHLer next year? I can't think of a single one.

 

[Bergey37]

Let me give you 3/4 examples of "good" cap dump acquisitions:
Bailey NYI
Myers (Vanc) after his bonus is paid
Reilly (Boston)
Forbort (Boston)

All of the above players could slide right into the Ducks lineup next year and (1) be better than the guys they were replacing last year and (2) not take away a spot from a rookie.

And speaking of rookies, who among the prospects is absolutely ready to be a full-time NHLer next year? I can't think of a single one.

Well, since you think Tyler Meyers is a "good" cap dump, that ends the discussion for me.

 

[DavidBL]

Let me give you 3/4 examples of "good" cap dump acquisitions:
Bailey NYI
Myers (Vanc) after his bonus is paid
Reilly (Boston)
Forbort (Boston)

All of the above players could slide right into the Ducks lineup next year and (1) be better than the guys they were replacing last year and (2) not take away a spot from a rookie.

And speaking of rookies, who among the prospects is absolutely ready to be a full-time NHLer next year? I can't think of a single one.

Bailey and forbot are cap casualties not dumps. The other 2 are dumps. They're akin to who we added last year if not worse. They don't make this team better and would likely prevent us from actually getting guys who fill those roles and do like a Mayfield or forbot

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I think Fantilli may go back to college, and if these rumors about picking Carlsson are true, maybe that sent a red flag to Verbeek? I dunno.

I doubt Carlsson goes back to his league, would be signed immediately with the Ducks and report to SD if he is not yet ready for the NHL. Good place for him to develop under the Ducks wings, no pun intended. lol.

GM Verbeek has already stated he prefers players that are overripen. Fantilli or Carlsson returning to their respective teams isn't a negative. If there's rumors we're in on Michkov, then that's a three year wait. Why would a one-year wait deter Verbeek from selecting Fantilli or Carlsson if we're thinking about Michkov?

Both Fantilli and Carlsson had huge jumps in their games with their respective teams. Another year of development in those programs can only be good. For Fantilli, he loves the physical game, but his body isn't NHL-ready. With other Michigan players who stayed two seasons, Fantilli has great sources to rely upon - including 2023 Calder Trophy winner Matty Beniers. The hope for Carlsson is that he will play center with Orebro in the SHL, Sweden's top men's league.

Stephens reported that Newell Brown is returning as Ducks asst coach, but Stothers will be special advisor to coaching mentorship. Stothers might still be recovering from cancer and this move is less stressful. I'm not impressed with our assistant coaches in Anaheim so far. We finished last in the league.

In San Diego, we're running back the assistant coaches in Sparre and Clarke. We also finished last in the league, the AHL.

Due to the uncertainty of our coaching going into this season, I'd prefer whoever we pick at #2 should return to their respective program because their environment is a better environment to develop within. Zegras did a one-and-done in college. There was no feeling he wouldn't sign. With McTavish, he returned to juniors for a season and then came over to the NHL. Neither player's development were hindered.

 

[tomd]

Well, since you think Tyler Meyers is a "good" cap dump, that ends the discussion for me.

Bailey and forbot are cap casualties not dumps. The other 2 are dumps. They're akin to who we added last year if not worse. They don't make this team better and would likely prevent us from actually getting guys who fill those roles and do like a Mayfield or forbot

No disrespect but it is really frustrating to discuss the team with both of you b/c you are so out of sync with what the direction of the team is. This is (and has been for the last 3 years) a bad hockey team. There is some young talent being accumulated and that is great but it is going to take time for them to mature. Trades using 2nd round picks will bring nothing onto the roster other than older veterans who are 1-2 years away from UFA status. Free agency is fool's gold and there is precious little talent in this year's crop anyway. The team should be better next year (how could they be worse?) but they ain't making the playoffs and quite honestly won't even be close to making them. Boggles my mind that you both can't see that.

 

[dracom]

No disrespect but it is really frustrating to discuss the team with both of you b/c you are so out of sync with what the direction of the team is. This is (and has been for the last 3 years) a bad hockey team. There is some young talent being accumulated and that is great but it is going to take time for them to mature. Trades using 2nd round picks will bring nothing onto the roster other than older veterans who are 1-2 years away from UFA status. Free agency is fool's gold and there is precious little talent in this year's crop anyway. The team should be better next year (how could they be worse?) but they ain't making the playoffs and quite honestly won't even be close to making them. Boggles my mind that you both can't see that.

only gonna focus on the bolded here, but Coyotes used a 2nd to get Sean Durzi 24 year old defensemen who put up 38 points on the Kings only a year away from RFA status. Avs used two 2nds to get Toews a couple seasons ago. It's possible to find good players using a 2nd round picks as trade bait, just have to find them.

 

[tomd]

only gonna focus on the bolded here, but Coyotes used a 2nd to get Sean Durzi 24 year old defensemen who put up 38 points on the Kings only a year away from RFA status. Avs used two 2nds to get Toews a couple seasons ago. It's possible to find good players using a 2nd round picks as trade bait, just have to find them.

Durzi is a f***ing terrible defenseman who shouldn't be anywhere near a playoff team roster. Why do you think LA got rid of him???? I have no idea why Arizona would want him other than to be a warm body.

Toews was a great pickup by Colorado but they were a playoff caliber team...not a team that finished 32nd in the league. When the Ducks are 2-3 years down the road I would hope PV could make the same type of trade. Timing is everything.

 

[DavidBL]

No disrespect but it is really frustrating to discuss the team with both of you b/c you are so out of sync with what the direction of the team is. This is (and has been for the last 3 years) a bad hockey team. There is some young talent being accumulated and that is great but it is going to take time for them to mature. Trades using 2nd round picks will bring nothing onto the roster other than older veterans who are 1-2 years away from UFA status. Free agency is fool's gold and there is precious little talent in this year's crop anyway. The team should be better next year (how could they be worse?) but they ain't making the playoffs and quite honestly won't even be close to making them. Boggles my mind that you both can't see that.

Very much disagree that we just have SOME young talent. We just don't see a point in waiting to add decent players. We're not looking for Fiala in UFA. We're looking for support players who will already be here for the kids as they grow. You seem to think that our arguments mean we think we're suddenly going to be a playoff next season by adding a guy like Mayfield. We hardly think that's a guarantee but I can tell you we'll be a lot closer to it than if we add Myers and and Reilly instead of Forbot/Mayfield. Your players actually feel like we building rather than just waiting for prospects to fall in our laps and save the team. That seems crazy to us.

 

[70sSanO]

Speaking of the Coyotes. They traded with the Islanders for Andrew Ladd a few years ago.

In addition to taking Ladd from the Islanders, the Coyotes got (2) 2nd round picks and a conditional 3rd round.

In return, the Coyotes agreed to play at ASU.

John

 

[McDonald19]

Sorry for not being clear. I think we need to draft a goalie. I don’t think we need another draft pick.

Dostal is 23
Clang is 21
Gage is 21 next week

I guess adding a 18 year old goalie prospect isn’t a bad idea, but it’s not a huge organizational need.

 

[tomd]

Very much disagree that we just have SOME young talent. We just don't see a point in waiting to add decent players. We're not looking for Fiala in UFA. We're looking for support players who will already be here for the kids as they grow. You seem to think that our arguments mean we think we're suddenly going to be a playoff next season by adding a guy like Mayfield. We hardly think that's a guarantee but I can tell you we'll be a lot closer to it than if we add Myers and and Reilly instead of Forbot/Mayfield. You players actually feel like we building rather than just waiting for prospects to fall in our laps and save the team. That seems crazy to us.

I'm not against adding selective players thru free agency as long as it makes sense. Mayfield would be a decent addition but he is almost 31 years old. This is his last shot at a big payday or winning a SC. Why would he come to Anaheim unless it was strictly for $$$$? Shades of Shattenkirk TBH. But hey, if PV gets him I won't complain. But don't act like it is going to be an easy sell or a game changer. Not many UFA's are going to come here for all the reasons we've discussed over the years.

Bottom line for me is that PV is going to live and die at the draft table. Every pick in the first two rounds HAS to count. If they screw up these draft picks, the rest doesn't matter.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Dostal is 23
Clang is 21
Gage is 21 next week

I guess adding a 18 year old goalie prospect isn’t a bad idea, but it’s not a huge organizational need.

Buteyets is also 21. Asst GM Madden noted they intend to bring him over for the 2024-25 season.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Dostal is 23
Clang is 21
Gage is 21 next week

I guess adding a 18 year old goalie prospect isn’t a bad idea, but it’s not a huge organizational need.

Well. Dostal has shown some promise but drafting one of the higher rated goalies wouldn’t seem like a bad idea give how much the position is a bigger crap shoot than drafting skaters. Especially with how long they usually take to develop.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Well. Dostal has shown some promise but drafting one of the higher rated goalies wouldn’t seem like a bad idea give how much the position is a bigger crap shoot than drafting skaters. Especially with how long they usually take to develop.

I was going to say this. None of the guys we have is a sure thing as a starter, and quite a few starting goalies flame out. A new one every 3 years or so is just keeping the pipeline stocked. If nothing else, we will need someone for the Gulls.

 

[tomd]

Damian Clara is a huge goalie who may be a 3rd round pickup.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I'm not against adding selective players thru free agency as long as it makes sense. Mayfield would be a decent addition but he is almost 31 years old. This is his last shot at a big payday or winning a SC. Why would he come to Anaheim unless it was strictly for $$$$? Shades of Shattenkirk TBH. But hey, if PV gets him I won't complain. But don't act like it is going to be an easy sell or a game changer. Not many UFA's are going to come here for all the reasons we've discussed over the years.

Bottom line for me is that PV is going to live and die at the draft table. Every pick in the first two rounds HAS to count. If they screw up these draft picks, the rest doesn't matter.

Verbeek doesn't have a problem overpaying if the term is short for older veterans. He did that with Klingberg and made that offer to Lindholm.

Anaheim had a top-5 prospect pool before Verbeek became the GM. He had a good 2022 draft that further added depth and talent.

I don't believe Verbeek needs to hit on every pick in the first two rounds, especially when he has multiple picks. We can use the 2022 draft as an example. LD Mintyukov, C Gaucher, RD Warren, and RD Luneau were drafted in the first two rounds. Right now, it looks like we hit jackpot on two out of the four in Minty and Luneau. Gaucher looks like he's going to be NHL bound. Warren is unknown due to being plagued with injuries. A huge surprised was 5th rounder Hvidston, which Asst Coach MM believes is still growing into his slight 6'2 frame. Elite Prospects has Hvidston listed at 165 lbs and the WHL has him weighing in at 185 lbs.

• Top-6 youths/prospects
  • C Zegras, Rd 1
  • RW Terry, Rd 5
  • C McTavish, Rd 1
  • 2023 #2 OA pick, Rd 1
  =======
  • RW Perreault, Rd 1
  • RW Pastujov, Rd 3
  • LW Tracey, Rd 1
  • C Kukkonen, Rd 6 ... NCAA Soph in 2023-24

Keep an eye on Kukkonen b/c he's a big time goal scorer.

• Bottom-6 youths/prospects
  • C Lundy, Rd 1
  • LW Jones, Rd 1
  • LW Nesterenko, TDL acquisition & Rd 5
  • C Groulx, Rd 2
  • C Gaucher, Rd 1
  • LW Hvidston, Rd 5

Hvidston, a Sept baby, took huge strides this year. Expect him to continue that growth in skills and body.

• Defense youths/prospects
  • LD LaCombe, Rd 2
  • LD Mintyukov, Rd 1
  • LD Zellweger, Rd 2
  • LD Benoit, UDFA
  • LD Hinds, Rd 3
  • RD Drysdale, Rd 1
  • RD Helleson, TDL acquisition & Rd 2
  • RD Luneau, Rd 2
  • RD Moore, Rd 3
  • RD Warren, Rd 2

Moore might be a very important piece and Verbeek need to sign him because Moore might be ahead of Warren and Helleson.

• Goalies youths/prospects
  • G Dostal, Rd 3
  • G Alexander, Rd 5
  • G Clang, TDL acquisition & Rd 3
  • G Buteyets, Rd 6

Our weakest spot at this moment is lacking top-6 scoring players. With three 2nd round picks, I'd love to have just one hit and ecstatic if all three hit. That's whole point of having more darts. Asst GM MM believes he can get good players with picks 59 and 60. I agree with him, but it may take some time for them to develop.

I'm more intrigued with the four picks in the first 33 selections on Day 2 of the draft: 33rd, 59th, 60th, and 65th. Players I've denoted that we could chase after in previous posts:

6'3 RW Halttunen (PF)
6'3 F Nelson (PF, converted from D)
6'2 LW Suniev (BCHL)
6'3 LW Myatovic (noted more for his defense)
6'3 RD Andrew Gibson (fast skating, still developing his defense)
6'0 C Carey Terrance (high end skater, needs to work on defense)

Newer prospects to keep an eye on:

6'3 C Anton Wahlberg (PF)
6'3 RW Zachary Nehring (high schooler)
6'6 G Damien Clara
6'2 RD Dylan MacKinnon (shutdown D, with potential for more offense ... like D Hinds)

I don't believe Verbeek needs to hit on every pick in the first two rounds because of how much is already here. That #2 OA pick is going to be a top-6 pick. We're probably going to be a lottery team next draft and we find a top-6 scorer with our first round pick because next draft is defensive heavy up top. Also, we have two 2nd round picks next year and three 3rd round picks. That's a lot of darts.

Also, once most of our prospects graduated to the NHL level, then we can sign top-6 FA's or trade for one. I don't feel this do or die at the draft table considering how much we have already accumulated. And if any of the lower tiered top-6 prospects start to stand out, then it lessens the burden of finding instant success in drafts.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

That may be true, but Larsson season was pretty darn impressive as well. He had 3rd most playoff points and 5th most Regular season All-Time for draft eligible players in SHL history.

Not bad for a guy who is 6’3 and still growing into his body. I only say that because you mentioned it For Fantilli, but I think Carlsson has much more filling out to do. Seeing them next to each other Carlsson is clearly a couple inches taller with a bigger frame, but they weigh the same.

Oh and Michov, and to a lesser extent Smith, have some pretty historic distinctions too.

I'm not against Carlsson I'm just saying if you pass on Fantilli you better be right. It is very rare to get an elite version of this player archetype and if he ends up being that it's going to make all involved look bad even if whoever you pick ends up being good

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Fantilli is staying at Michigan next year so not sure how that impacts our decision

It shouldn't whatsoever

 

[nbducksfan19]

I'm not against Carlsson I'm just saying if you pass on Fantilli you better be right. It is very rare to get an elite version of this player archetype and if he ends up being that it's going to make all involved look bad even if whoever you pick ends up being good

I’m not sure I understand why that is true only for Fantilli? I can easily see scenarios where passing on Carlsson or Michov look really bad.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I’m not sure I understand why that is true only for Fantilli? I can easily see scenarios where passing on Carlsson or Michov look really bad.

No it won't, fantilli has been been overwhelming consensus number 2 player for quite some time if those guys end up better theres not going to be alot of "look how stupid Anaheim is" there are perfectly good reasons to pass on Michkov in particular anyways

 

[DavidBL]

I'm not against adding selective players thru free agency as long as it makes sense. Mayfield would be a decent addition but he is almost 31 years old. This is his last shot at a big payday or winning a SC. Why would he come to Anaheim unless it was strictly for $$$$? Shades of Shattenkirk TBH. But hey, if PV gets him I won't complain. But don't act like it is going to be an easy sell or a game changer. Not many UFA's are going to come here for all the reasons we've discussed over the years.

Bottom line for me is that PV is going to live and die at the draft table. Every pick in the first two rounds HAS to count. If they screw up these draft picks, the rest doesn't matter.

I feel like the idea of FAs not wanting to come here is very over blown around this forum. There is actually a lot of evidence of mid tier guys coming here over the years and that's honestly what we're talking about. We don't know what Mayfields motivations and maybe we don't get him, doesn't mean we should discount the idea outright. You talk about it as I'd there is 0 chance. I'd like to at least we're trying. Obviously sometimes everything you want to do doesn't come to fruition. Doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.

I find it very hard to get excited about a team who isn't trying to improve by using available avenues to them. You say PV will live or die at the draft table but isn't that true for just about everyone? No team is built solely by the draft. Or even the vast majority. And by vast I mean 70% or more. Even Tampa had 9 players on their cup team that they didn't draft. That's 40% of the team. I do agree that the team will have to find NHL players outside the top 10.