Better Goal Scorer.....66 or 8?

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

OV is the greatest goal scorer of all-time.

 

[Dingo]

i went Lemieux. Its really close, though. Easily #1 and #2 for me, of people i have seen.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Again, put on the tape and compare.

Will happily put on the tape of the embarrassingly awful goaltenders he scored on in the 80s and before the butterfly was popular. Or the pylon level defenders who couldn't actually skate.

66 is a Mt Rushmore player and probably the most talented player ever but let's stop being dishonest about the difficulty of scoring goals in the 80s-96 compared to Ovechkin's career. If people wanna argue about the 35 in 43 in the 2001 season have at it. Or the 69 in 95-96 sure. But comparing the 80s and early 90s to the 2000s/2010s is absurd.

 

[SkinsFan09]

It's not really a hypothetical. We're able to watch both players play hundreds of games. It shouldn't be difficult to determine who had better goal scoring ability.


Ovechkin is in his 20th season now. At this point you're referring to the first quarter of his career. And there were certainly guys better at cleaning up rebounds at the net.

Through 830 career goals, 127 of them were PP one timers - less than half his total PP goals to that point. That's 15% of 830. People on here act like it's 40-50% of his total.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Through 830 career goals, 127 of them were PP one timers - less than half his total PP goals to that point. That's 15% of 830. People on here act like it's 40-50% of his total.

He has a great shot from anywhere, I'm well aware. He's just no longer an offense driver and hasn't been for a long, long time unfortunately. He's had 40 assists once since 2011. He performs his role well but his role has been to get open for the chances his teammates create.

 

[paracord]

Does Ovi's tape match that? I don't know.

 

[Spektre]

Ovie is great but I think it’s embarrassing to anyone if trying to compare to Lemieux.

Let Lemieux play 3vs3 OT’s, no 2 line passes, and an era where every D isn’t holding every shift, and Lemieux scores 120 goals in a season.

 

[Video Nasty]

Better: Lemieux
Greater: Ovechkin

 

[um]

Ovie is great but I think it’s embarrassing to anyone if trying to compare to Lemieux.

Let Lemieux play 3vs3 OT’s, no 2 line passes, and an era where every D isn’t holding every shift, and Lemieux scores 120 goals in a season.

Lemieux played in the highest scoring era. How did you just imagine 120 goals?

 

[SkinsFan09]

Ovie is great but I think it’s embarrassing to anyone if trying to compare to Lemieux.

Let Lemieux play 3vs3 OT’s, no 2 line passes, and an era where every D isn’t holding every shift, and Lemieux scores 120 goals in a season.

3 v 3 OT has very minimal impact on total goals. The difference is defensemen now can actually skate. And goalies aren't flailing and falling down in front of giant nets playing stand up.

Again, Lemieux is a Mt Rushmore player but some of you need to get a grip on reality. Scoring was way way easier in his prime than in the modern era - the numbers make that very clear. There's no data to even remotely suggest otherwise.

 

[x Tame Impala]

They played in totally different eras. I would think Ovechkin’s talents in the 80’s and early
90’s would’ve given us some absurd numbers too

 

[tabness]

Lemieux better (best ever maybe, only the great Brett Hull compares of those I've seen enough on)

Ovechkin greater (like Gretzky with the records and all, he's just had the greater accomplishments throughout his career and if/when he gets the total record, he's probably the greatest though I personally will always dismiss anything new NHL cause it sucks)

 

[Reindl87]

The guy who scored more goals while being the second best playmaker ever.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Mario was better at it, Ovi’s peak is right up there and his longevity is freakish though.

 

[Toby91ca]

Another thing Mario had and isn’t talked about is speed. Pronger has said on record in his blues days how caught off guard he was at lemieux’s speed. There is a goal on YouTube a Chris Pronger trying to defend a wide rush to the net by Mario with the puck, the puck ended up in the net…

I’m not so sure. I’ve never seen Mario as fast at all, but probably faster than I thought simply because of his size and lanky stride. That said, sometimes you need to take what other players say with a grain of salt. I tried to look up video of Mario blowing past Pronger and the video I found was Pronger taking about this and how he didn’t know how fast he was, etc. anyway Pronger says Lemieux had 4 goals and 4 assists that game and Pronger said he himself was -8. Problem is, Lemieux scored 8pts three times in his career, all before Pronger was in the league and from what I can tell, Pronger’s worst +/- was -5 and it wasn’t against Lemieux.

 

[authentic]

Using this definition, I think I take Mario at his best. Can't go wrong with Ovi but Mario's shot arsenal is a bit more versatile IMO; better hands, more size, strength, hockey IQ, etc. Ovi's no slouch in any of those departments but Mario was a freak of nature.

I agree but does strength really apply here compared to Ovechkin?

I’m not so sure. I’ve never seen Mario as fast at all, but probably faster than I thought simply because of his size and lanky stride. That said, sometimes you need to take what other players say with a grain of salt. I tried to look up video of Mario blowing past Pronger and the video I found was Pronger taking about this and how he didn’t know how fast he was, etc. anyway Pronger says Lemieux had 4 goals and 4 assists that game and Pronger said he himself was -8. Problem is, Lemieux scored 8pts three times in his career, all before Pronger was in the league and from what I can tell, Pronger’s worst +/- was -5 and it wasn’t against Lemieux.

Uhh, Lemieux was fast before the back injuries took their toll. In the late 80s he could absolutely fly. Check out his Minnesota North stars goal and there are clips of him going even faster than that.

 

[Fatass]

OV will score the most goals in a career. Mario was a better goal scorer. Both can be true.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Lots of stats, facts, context, and data from the Ovechkin side.

Lots of falsehoods, baseless assertions, style points, imagination, personal attacks, woulda coulda shoulda, and history revisions from the Lemieux side.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Ovie is great but I think it’s embarrassing to anyone if trying to compare to Lemieux.

Let Lemieux play 3vs3 OT’s, no 2 line passes, and an era where every D isn’t holding every shift, and Lemieux scores 120 goals in a season.

Let's not act like Lemieux didnt get to play in the single greatest scoring era in league history. What would Ovechkin do in a league where guys like Nicholls, Mogilny and Kurri were putting up 70 goal seasons?

Lemieux played in an era when having a sv% over .900 meant you were the Vezina favorite, in Ovechkin's era being at or under .900 gets you a trip to the AHL

 

[Midnight Judges]

OV will score the most goals in a career. Mario was a better goal scorer. Both can be true.

If Lemieux was the better goal scorer, he would have led the nhl in gpg more than Ovie. Ovie did it 9 times to Lemieux’s 6.

Or at least Lemieux would have had the highest single season goal total of his generation. Or at least the highest adjusted total. Or the highest playoff total. Or the highest career total. Or led the league the most times. Here in real life Mario Lemieux accomplished none of those key achievements. Ovechkin achieved all of them.

If any of us were creating metrics that would demonstrate who was better, these are first among them.

 

[Fatass]

Let's not act like Lemieux didnt get to play in the single greatest scoring era in league history. What would Ovechkin do in a league where guys like Nicholls, Mogilny and Kurri were putting up 70 goal seasons?

Lemieux played in an era when having a sv% over .900 meant you were the Vezina favorite, in Ovechkin's era being at or under .900 gets you a trip to the AHL

Great players will be great in any era. Skate, stick, ice, equipment, training etc all impact each era. Hands and iq are the constant. Mario excelled at both.

 

[authentic]

Lots of stats, facts, context, and data from the Ovechkin side.

Lots of falsehoods, baseless assertions, style points, imagination, personal attacks, woulda coulda shoulda, and history revisions from the Lemieux side.

Honestly at best they are roughly equal at peaks, Lemieux scored at that peak level more often though. Ovechkin is undeniably greater by leaps and bounds, Lemieux’s had equal if not arguably better goal scoring at his peak while dishing out assists like Gretzky… It’s not like there’s no debate about it here. I’m sure you saw Lemieux at his peak, is it really that crazy of an opinion?

 

[Golden_Jet]

View attachment 985977

HF's adjusted totals adjust points for an 82 game season, but not the actual games played. This leads to very odd career totals such as the above here for Howie Morenz.

Until they fix their flawed methodology, I don't see it as having much value.

All the info is there, just need to interpret it correctly. You can see what they are doing by looking at the totals at the bottom.

 

[Midnight Judges]

. "Generationally compiling" past a vastly superior peak or not is the question. Mario is likely the best goalscorer ever on a per game basis and id argue it's not all that close either….

Ovechkin’s peak goal scoring season is equal or better than Lemieux’s.

This “compiling past a vastly superior peak” talk is pure history revision.

Players who lead the entire league 9 times are not compilers.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

If Lemieux was the better goal scorer, he would have led the nhl in gpg more than Ovie. Ovie did it 9 times to Lemieux’s 6.

Or at least Lemieux would have had the highest single season goal total of his generation. Or at least the highest adjusted total. Or the highest playoff total. Or the highest career total. Or led the league the most times. Here in real life Mario Lemieux accomplished none of those key achievements. Ovechkin achieved all of them.

Lemieux was competing with all time great goal scorers like Hull, Neely, Selanne, Bure, Robitaille, etc.

OV was mostly competing with 2nd/3rd tier guys like Jeff Carter, Jamie Benn or Tarasenko. Are we supposed to be impressed that he beat his lesser peers more often?