Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[nbducksfan19]

I wonder if part of the offensive IQ thing is because some scouts cannot keep up with his constant speed and there really isn't as much room to make a decision when you are playing at that pace.
When you play a slowing the game down pace they have more time to make decisions and will come off as higher IQ. If Carlsson had elite speed people would be questioning his IQ.

Take Hischier for example he's now an brilliant 2way forward with explosive fast skating who produces 80 points. Then look at the guy some thought was better than him: Nolan Patrick because he was a better playmaker, bigger and some thought he had higher IQ. Now Nolan Patrick sucks and is a bust mostly because of injuries but when he does play he just sucks.

Lol it’s really reaching to think the issue is pro scouts being unable to keep up with Fantilli. He’s fast, but not like the fastest player to ever put on skates. Mcdavid is faster and no one had any issues seeing his hockey IQ and how he uses his teammates.

Also, in their draft years Hirshier was much more widely considered the higher Hockey IQ player, while Nolan Patrick was the bigger two-way player with a tremendous resume. Repeatedly Comparing Patrick to Carlsson is as disingenuous as comparing Fantilli to Cogliano.

 

[robbieboy3686]

If we like Carlsson my fantasy is for the Habs to trade with SJS for #4 then to trade #4+ for #2.

#2 MTL Fantilli
#3 CBJ Smith
#4 ANA Carlsson

We get our guy plus something good probably a first.

“ our guy” lol

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Are people already talking bout fantilli injuries? Lol

I still think fantilli > carlsson… if we’re going carlsson we should dangle 2nd pick to Columbus or San Jose

 

[WhatTheDuck]

 

[Masch78]

Fantilli is the next Jonathan toews.. Ducks will welcome that with open arms

Fantilli CAN BE. At the moment he is a very talented prospect.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Fantilli CAN BE. At the moment he is a very talented prospect.

Indeed he is..

 

[70sSanO]

The problem with who is the best pick is not knowing how the team performs in the playoffs when all the pieces come together.

No one wants an Edmonton, although McDavid will most likely win a cup one day.

While I’m sure Colorado fans were thrilled to win the cup, I doubt they would be happy with a one and done. For all MacKinnon is, getting out of the second round, or even the first, is not one of them.

I just want the Ducks to win a cup, actually cups. Murray was trying to be competitive, I’m hoping Verbeek is making decisions to win it all one day.

John

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

So what's this I hear from sources Fantilli saying he's going back to Michigan.. is this true

 

[tomd]

So what's this I hear from sources Fantilli saying he's going back to Michigan.. is this true

what are those sources?

 

[goonsaredumb]

So what's this I hear from sources Fantilli saying he's going back to Michigan.. is this true

"I think I'll make that decision when it comes and whatever the [NHL] team says and whatever my close circle around me says," Fantilli said on Wednesday. "I'll take their advice and make a decision at the end of the day, but we haven't really gotten there yet."

So basically if we draft him and Verbeek wants him on the team he'll probably be on the team if his close circle agrees whoever that may be and if Verbeek wants him to go back to Michigan he'll go back to Michigan

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

"I think I'll make that decision when it comes and whatever the [NHL] team says and whatever my close circle around me says," Fantilli said on Wednesday. "I'll take their advice and make a decision at the end of the day, but we haven't really gotten there yet."

So basically if we draft him and Verbeek wants him on the team he'll probably be on the team if his close circle agrees whoever that may be and if Verbeek wants him to go back to Michigan he'll go back to Michigan

I see. Sounds good

 

[KaseMeOutside]

We have reached the point where Fantilli has been completely overanalyzed. Here are the facts

In his draft year he was named the best player in college hockey playing against older players

Don't overthink this, at the end of the day he has to be really f***ing good to do that

So what's this I hear from sources Fantilli saying he's going back to Michigan.. is this true

I have no problem with that it's not a big deal

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

We have reached the point where Fantilli has been completely overanalyzed. Here are the facts

In his draft year he was named the best player in college hockey playing against older players

Don't overthink this, at the end of the day he has to be really f***ing good to do that

But what Carlsson is doing as an 18 YO in the SHL is nothing to scoff at. I think there are a lot on here undervaluing LC, but that’s fine. People are entitled to whatever opinions they have

 

[lwvs84]

But what Carlsson is doing as an 18 YO in the SHL is nothing to scoff at. I think there are a lot on here undervaluing LC, but that’s fine. People are entitled to whatever opinions they have

I keep going back and forth... I just hope Columbus picks the one we don't between Carlsson and Fantilli. San Jose will end up with a really good player, but those two will probably be the toughest to handle in a playoff matchup in the future.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

But what Carlsson is doing as an 18 YO in the SHL is nothing to scoff at. I think there are a lot on here undervaluing LC, but that’s fine. People are entitled to whatever opinions they have

I never once said anything negative about Carlsson. I was talking specifically about Fantilli and the way he is being overanalyzed

 

[Vipers31]

I never once said anything negative about Carlsson. I was talking specifically about Fantilli and the way he is being overanalyzed

Honestly, neither is over-analyzed. What’s being over-analyzed is any type of source, whether it deserves to be labeled as such or not, and whatever else. It’s virtually all regurgating and expanding on second hand input. As always, we just all need draft day to happen to get this over with and move to slightly less pointless discussions, like whether our GM should be petitioned to lose his job over making what just might have been the right pick.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I have always been on Carlsson train. He debuted in SHL at the age of 16 based on his hockey acumen, that's impressive beyond belief, and to me is a surefire he will be great player at NHL level. What he has you can not teach nor train.

The thing with Fantilli is he's so exceptionally physically gifted that that can hide his shortcomings playing amongst kids and in the NCAA.

Here's a quote from the Athletic from a scout, before the WC:

Scout 1: For Fantilli, he was above expectations for me this season. And not that I thought his transition wasn’t going to be successful, I just didn’t see a Hobey Baker.​

​

That (disappointing) world juniors was the outlier. The body, the speed, the compete (are excellent). I know he had awesome production but I think that came more from his compete level than his hockey sense, but that’s not going to hurt him. He has a similar game at the same age and probably a little better than (Quinton) Byfield.​

​

That said, Carlsson is No. 2 for me. I think he’ll be a centre at the next level. When you compare him and Fantilli, Carlsson has superior hockey sense. Carlsson doesn’t have the same pace, he doesn’t play with the same frenetic motor, but he’s like a (Anze) Kopitar with the two-way brain, size and he’s going to make his linemates better. I think the high side is higher than with Fantilli.​

It mimics what St Louis' description between Fantilli and Carlsson.

The oddest thing is Scout 1 denoted Fantilli having a disappointed WJC-20 before the WC. I denoted how Fantilli's high octane offense disappears against tougher opponents. Then another poster commented how Fantilli was snake bitten in goal scoring at the WJC-18.

If we piece all the times Fantilli's high octane offense disappears, then we get the following:

• Fantilli's high octane offense throttled:
  • WJC-18: snake bitten at goal scoring
  • Big-10 Championship
  • NCAA Tourney Quarterfinals and Semifinals
  • WJC-20
  • WC

Fantilli plays at one speed and therein lies the problem. His frenetic play and tenacity is more visible with ludicrous speed/acceleration. There isn't variance in his speed, which limits many options as he's playing hero puck. He needs to figure out how to play the team game and vary his pacing, otherwise he won't be a center at the NHL level.

There's one thing I noticed with Fantilli's passing to an open spot compared to other players, his passes aren't close to the intended player often and that player has to try to collect/chase after the puck. I've seen McTavish pass to an open spot many times before his draft and after his draft, but it's timed well to where the intended player receives it in stride. With Carlsson, his passes to an open spot are like McTavish's because both players have great anticipation to catch the intended player in stride.

Fantilli will have to work developing all of these hockey senses. If not, then at least be prepared that he may not reach that ceiling and be a much better version of Max Jones as a LW.

 

[Vinegar Strokes]

Amazing piece. I read only a few parts, will definitely need to read more. As much as I want us to draft Fantilli, I share some if not most of the concerns there. Definitely would need to work a lot with him after the draft if we pick him but seems like our newest head coaches could be one of the best to do it.

I wonder how was McKinnon pre-draft. Was he also considered to be lacking in offensive IQ/not using teammates department? Or was he advanced in all that? Would be interesting to compare as their powerful styles seem somewhat comparable

Living in Colorado for the last 10 years with season tickets for the last 6 the answer is Mackinnon absolutely had the issues that are identified in that article when he first came to the NHL.

It took Mack a few years before he learned to not just take the puck and fly towards the net at full speed at all times.

Even when you watch Mack now, there are portions of the season when he’s, “slumping” that you question his hockey acumen because he’s blasting into the offensive zone and making bad decisions with the puck.

Now, that’s not to say Fantilli will ever figure it out the way Mack has but he those concerns were definitely there with a young Mack and some thought it would always hold him back.

Oddly enough, I’m my limited viewing of Carlsson he actually reminds me a lot of a center version of Rantanen, though Rantanen obviously has a much better shot at this stage.

 

[DaGeneral]

We have reached the point where Fantilli has been completely overanalyzed. Here are the facts

In his draft year he was named the best player in college hockey playing against older players

Don't overthink this, at the end of the day he has to be really f***ing good to do that


I have no problem with that it's not a big deal

Thank you. Happens every year. Look at something long enough and you’ll find warts

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Living in Colorado for the last 10 years with season tickets for the last 6 the answer is Mackinnon absolutely had the issues that are identified in that article when he first came to the NHL.

It took Mack a few years before he learned to not just take the puck and fly towards the net at full speed at all times.

Even when you watch Mack now, there are portions of the season when he’s, “slumping” that you question his hockey acumen because he’s blasting into the offensive zone and making bad decisions with the puck.

Now, that’s not to say Fantilli will ever figure it out the way Mack has but he those concerns were definitely there with a young Mack and some thought it would always hold him back.

Oddly enough, I’m my limited viewing of Carlsson he actually reminds me a lot of a center version of Rantanen, though Rantanen obviously has a much better shot at this stage.

Add in that he's 2 whole inches taller than MacKinnon and has a bit of Tkachuck in there as well.
and yeah Rantanen has an elite tier shot scoring 55 goals this year, I don't think Carlsson does more than 25 to 30 goals a year in his prime just like Getzlaf and not even Fantilli will score 55 in his prime unless he has a Perry-ish career year.

Bedard and Michkov are the only ones I see scoring 55+ goals in a season.

 

[Leonardo87]

Would really have no issue if they select Carlsson over Fantilli.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

We have reached the point where Fantilli has been completely overanalyzed. Here are the facts

In his draft year he was named the best player in college hockey playing against older players

Don't overthink this, at the end of the day he has to be really f***ing good to do that

Overanalyzing? You mean analyzing. I'd like to know all the pros and cons of a player so I know what we're getting. Not wanting to hear the cons is like putting your head in the sand and then rationalizing it as "overanalyzing".

My concerns about his high octane offense being throttled has been supported by a scout from the Athletic and by the lengthy scouting report by Sam St.L. Yet, it doesn't bring me down if we draft Fantilli because we already have high end talents established or establishing themselves at the NHL level already in Zegras, Terry, and McTavish. I would be very concerned drafting Fantilli if we didn't have Zegras and McTavish.

 

[lwvs84]

Overanalyzing? You mean analyzing. I'd like to know all the pros and cons of a player so I know what we're getting. Not wanting to hear the cons is like putting your head in the sand and then rationalizing it as "overanalyzing".

My concerns about his high octane offense being throttled has been supported by a scout from the Athletic and by the lengthy scouting report by Sam St.L. Yet, it doesn't bring me down if we draft Fantilli because we already have high end talents established or establishing themselves at the NHL level already in Zegras, Terry, and McTavish. I would be very concerned drafting Fantilli if we didn't have Zegras and McTavish.

According to his coach (I think? It was in one of the articles someone posted) his perceived lack of IQ is because he anticipates where guys should be passes the puck there. In a short tournament, that probably leads to more turnovers because his teammates don't know where to be. If he develops chemistry with our other high IQ players, they should be able to read of each other well.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

According to his coach (I think? It was in one of the articles someone posted) his perceived lack of IQ is because he anticipates where guys should be passes the puck there. In a short tournament, that probably leads to more turnovers because his teammates don't know where to be. If he develops chemistry with our other high IQ players, they should be able to read of each other well.

The passes into space where Fantilli's teammates had to chase down were all in Michigan games. It's a great idea, but you get away with not being accurate against weaker competition. I've seen lots of McTavish passes from WJC-18, Hamilton (CHL), and NHL were McTavish makes an accurate pass into space to catch his teammates in stride. Zegras does this all the time in his sleep. Similarly, I've seen some games from Carlsson where he's been accurate throwing into space to catch his teammate in stride.

The best way to explain this for me is a football QB throwing a wide receiver open as opposed to waiting for a WR to get open. There are QB's who can see a play happening before something opens up. Then there are QB's who only throw the pass if they see the WR open.

Carlsson is your classic, dropback QB. Fantilli is your dual threat QB with his speed. You can win with both, but the ensemble and game play needs to adapt to each type of QB. For dual threat QB's, you can hit it great with Mahomes or end up with Baker Mayfield. Mayfield won the Heisman in college and Mahomes didn't.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Im pretty interested in Nadeau... but im kinda hoping he falls into that 59/60 ... or if we end up adding more picks by draft day... maybe potentially find room for him in our list.