Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[nbducksfan19]

Yeah, I'm all for drafting BPA, I have been vocally upset for some of our past pucks where it seemed we went for fit. Heck, NYR went for a fit with McIlrath. But if you're having the best collegiate season since Eichel, arguably Kariya, there is little to no excuses not to go with that. Even with some flaws in his game that will need to be adressed. I'd say we just got lucky our need looks like will be the BPA (as far as current consensus go)

Clearly Fantilli had a historic season and is most frequently ranked two, but that alone does not and should not make him BPA. there obviously needs to be a huge element of projection in selecting BPA…

 

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NHL Draft Ranking 2023, by Simon St-L.

NHL Draft Ranking 2023, by Simon St-L. - TSLH -

www.toutsurlehockey.com

This is a really good read as well.

 

[Dryish]

NHL Draft Ranking 2023, by Simon St-L.

NHL Draft Ranking 2023, by Simon St-L. - TSLH -

www.toutsurlehockey.com

This is a really good read as well.

That's refreshing. I don't think I've heard such a scathing report of Fantilli until now, and it seems to echo some of the concerns some people thought they saw signs of during the WC.

I still personally think we need more speed, more will, and more straightforward scoring in the lineup, so a player much like Fantilli would be my preference, but if that take turns out to be true then there's a risk that we can choose wrong here.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

On that list Nadeau/Lardi are guys im pretty interested in.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

That's refreshing. I don't think I've heard such a scathing report of Fantilli until now, and it seems to echo some of the concerns some people thought they saw signs of during the WC.

I still personally think we need more speed, more will, and more straightforward scoring in the lineup, so a player much like Fantilli would be my preference, but if that take turns out to be true then there's a risk that we can choose wrong here.

To me Fantilli fits the idea that has been preached since PV took over... "identity"... which we havnt exactly seen yet...


unless his idenity for the team was getting caved in every night.

 

[nbducksfan19]

To me Fantilli fits the idea that has been preached since PV took over... "identity"... which we havnt exactly seen yet...


unless his idenity for the team was getting caved in every night.

You are absolutely right this team needs identify. I just hope they don’t ignore potentially meaningful warning signs in the pursuit of identity and miss out on the more impactful hockey player.

I also want to reiterate that I am torn on who I want, but in the several Michigan games and whc game I saw a lot of the things TSLH hockey (and the black book) discuss about Fantilli. I hope I am wrong, nothing would be better than if our scouts feel (and are right) that he can be an elite scoring center while also bringing sandpaper.

 

[Dirk316]

Verbeek has a fetish for gentle giants and there's one available. Columbus must be salivating at the opportunity they may be given

 

[nbducksfan19]

Verbeek has a fetish for gentle giants and there's one available. Columbus must be salivating at the opportunity they may be given

Do you ever give it a rest? Every post is like groundhogs day. I have no idea how good/bad a GM verbeek is or what type of roster he will construct, but the guy did take Gaucher in the first and he is not a gentle giant.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

That's refreshing. I don't think I've heard such a scathing report of Fantilli until now, and it seems to echo some of the concerns some people thought they saw signs of during the WC.

I still personally think we need more speed, more will, and more straightforward scoring in the lineup, so a player much like Fantilli would be my preference, but if that take turns out to be true then there's a risk that we can choose wrong here.

IMO, we aren't drafting Fantilli to be the savior. We're drafting him to be part of the core already established with Terry, Zegras, and McTavish. Anaheim does have offensive minded centers who are adept at playmaking with McTavish and Zegras. If Fantilli doesn't pan out at center because he cannot develop pace and team play, then he can slide/stay at wing with Zegras as his center. Fantilli would be a great complement to Zegras b/c Fantilli will backcheck like a bat out of hell and hit like "Wreck it Ralph".

Fantilli-type players are the ones that are build for the rigors of the playoffs. Fantilli can be on one line and McTavish the other line.

I don't think there's a wrong choice, but there could have been a better choice. I prefer Carlsson, but Fantilli fits the mold Verbeek wants.

 

[Vipers31]

I just don’t get what makes some folks feel or just act as there was any, let alone absolute certainty about who we pick. Bigger upsets than that this happen so regularly, it just seems wild to me.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

With 6 top 90 picks I wonder if we look to turn a couple into an established player. We have already seen rumors about Frederic and Sharangovich...maybe you turn a 3 into a team in cap problems and grab a useful piece

 

[robbieboy3686]

“ I love what Matthew tkachuk does out there, that’s who I will emulate “ possibly some of you listen to the nonsense others spew ( who just spew to spew since they’re bored in their lives ) if after that quote, you still don’t want fantilli. May God have mercy on your souls. Cuz I won’t.

 

[Dirk316]

Do you ever give it a rest? Every post is like groundhogs day. I have no idea how good/bad a GM verbeek is or what type of roster he will construct, but the guy did take Gaucher in the first and he is not a gentle giant.

He created one of the worst rosters in nhl history. Gaucher has zero career fights I don't consider him a gentle giant but definitely not a fighter. But I do see how he added nonstop soft players and completely abandoned the having a physical team. I know youre obsessed with Carlson but it would be an idiotic pick for multiple reasons

 

[tomd]

“ I love what Matthew tkachuk does out there, that’s who I will emulate “ possibly some of you listen to the nonsense others spew ( who just spew to spew since they’re bored in their lives ) if after that quote, you still don’t want fantilli. May God have mercy on your souls. Cuz I won’t.

I think this is an important point. I'm willing to concede that Carlsson has the potential to get 10-15 more points (mostly assists) during the regular season. But watching the tape on Fantilli, he is going to be Tkachuk-like in the playoffs. And take your pick of Tkachuk's - Matt, Keith, or Brady. Imagine Fantilli with another 15-20 pounds added on and maybe 1/2 to 1". He is going to be a monster force and a difference maker when the going gets tough. He'll make other players play braver. I'll take that type of player every single time.

 

[nbducksfan19]

He created one of the worst rosters in nhl history. Gaucher has zero career fights I don't consider him a gentle giant but definitely not a fighter. But I do see how he added nonstop soft players and completely abandoned the having a physical team. I know youre obsessed with Carlson but it would be an idiotic pick for multiple reasons

He didn’t create the roster, it was his first year. I’m hardly obsessed with Carlsson, I actually hope we draft Fantilli, i Just understand the reasons we might prefer Carlsson.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I think this is an important point. I'm willing to concede that Carlsson has the potential to get 10-15 more points (mostly assists) during the regular season. But watching the tape on Fantilli, he is going to be Tkachuk-like in the playoffs. And take your pick of Tkachuk's - Matt, Keith, or Brady. Imagine Fantilli with another 15-20 pounds added on and maybe 1/2 to 1". He is going to be a monster force and a difference maker when the going gets tough. He'll make other players play braver. I'll take that type of player every single time.

Agreed… I’m not even sure there is much difference between the 2 in offensive potential, I think that is generous to conceded that much offensively

I just think fantilli just offers much more, specifically of what we need.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

NHL Draft Ranking 2023, by Simon St-L.

NHL Draft Ranking 2023, by Simon St-L. - TSLH -

www.toutsurlehockey.com

This is a really good read as well.

Highlights concerns I had when watching Fantilli.

He created one of the worst rosters in nhl history. Gaucher has zero career fights I don't consider him a gentle giant but definitely not a fighter. But I do see how he added nonstop soft players and completely abandoned the having a physical team. I know youre obsessed with Carlson but it would be an idiotic pick for multiple reasons

Exaggerations are idiotic. Drafting a player who has played almost 2 full seasons in a pro-league of SHL status, meaning WAY above NCAA in quality, before being drafted at the age of 18 is certainlly not idiotic.

 

[anezthes]

Highlights concerns I had when watching Fantilli.

Same. I've gone from Carlsson to Fantilli and now back to Carlsson. Whomever they pick, hope it's the right call. Glad I don't have to make it.

 

[Kalv]

NHL Draft Ranking 2023, by Simon St-L.

NHL Draft Ranking 2023, by Simon St-L. - TSLH -

www.toutsurlehockey.com

This is a really good read as well.

Amazing piece. I read only a few parts, will definitely need to read more. As much as I want us to draft Fantilli, I share some if not most of the concerns there. Definitely would need to work a lot with him after the draft if we pick him but seems like our newest head coaches could be one of the best to do it.

I wonder how was McKinnon pre-draft. Was he also considered to be lacking in offensive IQ/not using teammates department? Or was he advanced in all that? Would be interesting to compare as their powerful styles seem somewhat comparable

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Amazing piece. I read only a few parts, will definitely need to read more. As much as I want us to draft Fantilli, I share some if not most of the concerns there. Definitely would need to work a lot with him after the draft if we pick him but seems like our newest head coaches could be one of the best to do it.

I wonder how was McKinnon pre-draft. Was he also considered to be lacking in offensive IQ/not using teammates department? Or was he advanced in all that? Would be interesting to compare as their powerful styles seem somewhat comparable

I wonder if part of the offensive IQ thing is because some scouts cannot keep up with his constant speed and there really isn't as much room to make a decision when you are playing at that pace.
When you play a slowing the game down pace they have more time to make decisions and will come off as higher IQ. If Carlsson had elite speed people would be questioning his IQ.

Take Hischier for example he's now an brilliant 2way forward with explosive fast skating who produces 80 points. Then look at the guy some thought was better than him: Nolan Patrick because he was a better playmaker, bigger and some thought he had higher IQ. Now Nolan Patrick sucks and is a bust mostly because of injuries but when he does play he just sucks.

 

[GermanRocket7]

I absolutely second @Anaheim4ever 's post. Fantilli does utilize his teammates very well for the most part. Of course he still needs some work on that, but let's face it: how many of us have really seen him in a full game during his NCAA season? Multiple games?

We all got to see him pretty much for the first time during the Worlds last month and there he was stapled to Milan f***ing Lucic most of the time.
Lucic is about the slowest player I have ever seen play live and his skating is akin to most beer league players'. Fantilli pretty much is twice as fast as Lucic, and I'm not even exaggerating much here.

If you put a speedy player like MacKinnon with a slob like Byfuglien, you'd also start questioning MacKinnon's decision-making even though he is top notch at that, simply because he has to wait æons for the latter one to arrive at the spot he is supposed to.

We all agree that Fantilli needs some work and has to be less hectic or even frantic in his play some times. But that's clearly coachable, and it has been reported numerous times how adaptable and eager to learn Fantilli is. That being said, we all agreed beforehand that e.g. players like Fowler, Lindholm, Manson etc. had been dragged down because of playing with a plug like Shattenkirk in the past few seasons. If we can easily draw the conclusion of them being hampered due to subpar linemates, why do we not apply that logic to Fantilli as well?

I'm not saying that Carlsson would be a horrible choice per se, far from it. He will be a star player down the road. But I strongly suggest we do not blow up the (legitimate) flaws in Fantilli's game to disproportionate 'concerns'. The only possible 'concern' I might have with Fantilli is his possibly rapid decline past age 32 or so due to his intensive game. But players like Perry can also show you, that this sandpaper game doesn't have to make you fall off a cliff completely, but you need to be able to adjust and be used accordingly - and that is where virtually ever scouting report said that Fantilli can play up and down the lineup and always be successful.

Btw: the comparisons to Byfield are moot. Byfield benefitted from being a man amongst boys fue to his frame and was hyped a lot because of him being black. The marketing machine did wonders there, and it backfired horribly.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Same. I've gone from Carlsson to Fantilli and now back to Carlsson. Whomever they pick, hope it's the right call. Glad I don't have to make it.

I have always been on Carlsson train. He debuted in SHL at the age of 16 based on his hockey acumen, that's impressive beyond belief, and to me is a surefire he will be great player at NHL level. What he has you can not teach nor train.

The thing with Fantilli is he's so exceptionally physically gifted that that can hide his shortcomings playing amongst kids and in the NCAA.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I absolutely second @Anaheim4ever 's post. Fantilli does utilize his teammates very well for the most part. Of course he still needs some work on that, but let's face it: how many of us have really seen him in a full game during his NCAA season? Multiple games?

We all got to see him pretty much for the first time during the Worlds last month and there he was stapled to Milan f***ing Lucic most of the time.
Lucic is about the slowest player I have ever seen play live and his skating is akin to most beer league players'. Fantilli pretty much is twice as fast as Lucic, and I'm not even exaggerating much here.

If you put a speedy player like MacKinnon with a slob like Byfuglien, you'd also start questioning MacKinnon's decision-making even though he is top notch at that, simply because he has to wait æons for the latter one to arrive at the spot he is supposed to.

We all agree that Fantilli needs some work and has to be less hectic or even frantic in his play some times. But that's clearly coachable, and it has been reported numerous times how adaptable and eager to learn Fantilli is. That being said, we all agreed beforehand that e.g. players like Fowler, Lindholm, Manson etc. had been dragged down because of playing with a plug like Shattenkirk in the past few seasons. If we can easily draw the conclusion of them being hampered due to subpar linemates, why do we not apply that logic to Fantilli as well?

I'm not saying that Carlsson would be a horrible choice per se, far from it. He will be a star player down the road. But I strongly suggest we do not blow up the (legitimate) flaws in Fantilli's game to disproportionate 'concerns'. The only possible 'concern' I might have with Fantilli is his possibly rapid decline past age 32 or so due to his intensive game. But players like Perry can also show you, that this sandpaper game doesn't have to make you fall off a cliff completely, but you need to be able to adjust and be used accordingly - and that is where virtually ever scouting report said that Fantilli can play up and down the lineup and always be successful.

Btw: the comparisons to Byfield are moot. Byfield benefitted from being a man amongst boys fue to his frame and was hyped a lot because of him being black. The marketing machine did wonders there, and it backfired horribly.

That is one of my concerns with Fantilli, if he will stay healthy his whole career with how he plays(Like how Tkachuck got hurt in the finals or how things ended for Kesler) and he needs to stop being Rambo lol and not do everything himself and let his teammates catch up even if they are a heavy tank like Lucic. We've seen Fantilli get compared to Byfield & Cogliano which is why I chose to compare Carlsson to Patrick & Lundestrom lol.

LA Kings were put in a tough position, it would have been terrible public relations in 2020 for an LA team to pass on Byfield for Stutzle. Byfield did earn his spot as a top5 prospect in the draft but Stutzle and Raymond seemed more likely to have success. Another thing is they maybe didn't want Byfield to drop to Anaheim in the draft if they suspected Detroit and Ottawa would still take Stutzle and Raymond over Byfield.

I still think Byfield becomes a good 2C given he's starting to trend in a good direction and he got really unlucky with a super low Shooting%.

 

[Rasp]

If we like Carlsson my fantasy is for the Habs to trade with SJS for #4 then to trade #4+ for #2.

#2 MTL Fantilli
#3 CBJ Smith
#4 ANA Carlsson

We get our guy plus something good probably a first.