2023-24 Roster Thread #6: A Hall of Famer, a doctor, a policeman and a moose walk into a bar with a Bundy...

[deadhead]

This is a whole lot of what-if ism. We have no idea what drafting at 14th would have done. We could have gotten a Joel Farabee, who didnt take three years to have an impact. We dont know if said player could have wow-ed and made the team. Especially if said player was playing aside a still great player in Claude Giroux.

That's before you even consider the possibilities that that pick could've been used in a trade for a functional NHL player instead of a marginal nhl/all tweener who we handed a 5M/year contract to.


Fletchers incompetence set this organization back years. Pretending like You have a crystal ball that sees into the alternate universe where Fletcher doesn't choose the least desirable outcome at every instance doesn't change that.

Assuming they'd be much better is a lot of big "what if," that some GM would make a series of brilliant trades, dump cap in a tight market without bleeding assets, that Couts wouldn't get injured and so on.

The team's window had closed, what's more likely is what we saw and have seen in other markets when a FO refuses to accept that reality and vainly tries to stay competitive.

 

[deadhead]

Cates should be the one on the 4th line, if Torts hadn't made him his adopted son. An offensive black hole, and not even strong on the puck in his own zone this season.

Cates CFrel +2.53, xGFrel +6.37, HDCFrel +11.59
Laughton CFrel -3.38, xGFrel +2.35, HDCFrel +7.56

Somehow he abides.

 

[Starat327]

Assuming they'd be much better is a lot of big "what if," that some GM would make a series of brilliant trades, dump cap in a tight market without bleeding assets, that Couts wouldn't get injured and so on.

The team's window had closed, what's more likely is what we saw and have seen in other markets when a FO refuses to accept that reality and vainly tries to stay competitive.

Two things:

All of my instances were prefaced with 'could'. This was done purposely, because Im not assuming anything I don't actually know to be fact (something else you should try). The only thing I do know is that Flletcher made a series of moves that were bad in the moment and worse now. I also never said they'd be "much better", but that's fine, I guess.

You're equating "better" with playoff appearances. Thats a dumb metric to measure off because half the league makes playoffs -- thats not an accomplishment to me. I digress.

The team can be better in several ways outside of the on ice product. Not be cap strapped. Have a better stockpile of assets/young players to be better positioned for future success. Not in a situation where we trade away productive assets for negative worth. Not hand out (several) boat anchor contracts that tie the organization to terrible players(some of which we then had to pay to get rid of).

Again, you don't have to defend this anymore. It's OK to just say "Yeah, I was wrong. Fletcher was actually pretty terrible." The whole purpose of education and learning is to process Information and adjust stances as thar information becomes available.

 

[Curufinwe]

Find someone who loves you as much as deadhead loves a miniscule sample size.

 

[Redpath]

32 Thoughts: Senators owner Andlauer pushes back after tough penalties

In this week's thoughts, Elliotte Friedman writes about Michael Andlauer's honest press conference, what's next for the Senators, neck guards, and much more.

www.sportsnet.ca

15. Seventeen minutes for Morgan Frost on Monday, 16 on Wednesday after two weeks out of the lineup. As I write this, he’s not asked for a trade. Teams have called the Flyers, but I don’t sense anything serious. The player prefers to make it work in Philadelphia.

16. Carter Hart was injured in Wednesday’s 5-2 loss to Buffalo. They’ll know more Thursday, but word is he’s going to miss a bit of time.

 

[Curufinwe]

I wonder if the Flyers might look at Peeke in CBJ. You know Torts is screaming at Briere about being stuck playing Belpedio as the second RHD in the lineup.

Philly could give them back their 2024 2nd. That would at least confirm there is no "rebuild".

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Thank you for the amazing 9 years

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[BrindamoursNose]

 

[deadhead]

A 2nd for Peeke? You must be kidding! Maybe a 5th.
That would be like giving a 2nd for Hagg b/c he was drafted in the 2nd rd.

 

[Cody Webster]

A 2nd for Peeke? You must be kidding! Maybe a 5th.
That would be like giving a 2nd for Hagg b/c he was drafted in the 2nd rd.

Maybe they could trade a 2024 1st, Zamula and a 2025 2nd for him instead

 

[deadhead]

Two things:

All of my instances were prefaced with 'could'. This was done purposely, because Im not assuming anything I don't actually know to be fact (something else you should try). The only thing I do know is that Flletcher made a series of moves that were bad in the moment and worse now. I also never said they'd be "much better", but that's fine, I guess.

You're equating "better" with playoff appearances. Thats a dumb metric to measure off because half the league makes playoffs -- thats not an accomplishment to me. I digress.

The team can be better in several ways outside of the on ice product. Not be cap strapped. Have a better stockpile of assets/young players to be better positioned for future success. Not in a situation where we trade away productive assets for negative worth. Not hand out (several) boat anchor contracts that tie the organization to terrible players(some of which we then had to pay to get rid of).

Again, you don't have to defend this anymore. It's OK to just say "Yeah, I was wrong. Fletcher was actually pretty terrible." The whole purpose of education and learning is to process Information and adjust stances as thar information becomes available.

I've said Fletcher screwed up after the 2020-21 season.

My point is the core problem was the FO refusing to accept reality, and as long as they insisted on being "competitive," no miracle GM was going to fix this team. Playing a little better, who cares? If the FO insists on being competitive, the GM is still going to trade draft picks b/c they lacked cap room for FAs, didn't have a good prospect pool and the team was aging out.

Yes, a better GM could have had the Flyers picking 14th and 12th the last two seasons. That would have certainly helped the eventual rebuild!

 

[Starat327]

I've said Fletcher screwed up after the 2020-21 season.

My point is the core problem was the FO refusing to accept reality, and as long as they insisted on being "competitive," no miracle GM was going to fix this team. Playing a little better, who cares? If the FO insists on being competitive, the GM is still going to trade draft picks b/c they lacked cap room for FAs, didn't have a good prospect pool and the team was aging out.

Yes, a better GM could have had the Flyers picking 14th and 12th the last two seasons. That would have certainly helped the eventual rebuild!

Again, extreme what-if ism. There's no reason this team coulsnt have not acquired bad players and given them long contracts, and been just as bad to draft where we did. In that event, better would be not paying assets to move players we just signed, while also not giving contracts with term to players who have no worth to a rebuilding team - aka Deslauriers.

Instead, we got a "competitive team" filled with garbage that consistently performed worse than its previous iteration.

We could have been set up to be much better if we didn't make all those terrible moves. Full stop.

 

[BiggE]

It means he’s likely not dealing with broken toes or a fractured skull. All else though, is still fair game.

Personally I’m betting on a torn quad coupled with gout and bleeding hemorrhoids

 

[Curufinwe]

A 2nd for Peeke? You must be kidding! Maybe a 5th.

Aren't you the guy who said a 1st (14th overall) and a 2nd + Hagg was market value for Risto?

 

[freakydallas13]

A 2nd for Peeke? You must be kidding! Maybe a 5th.
That would be like giving a 2nd for Hagg b/c he was drafted in the 2nd rd.

Who cares, that 2nd we give away isn't going to change this team. They would still be bad with or without it.

Isn't that the narrative for why the Ghost/Risto trades aren't that bad? Because the team would still be bad if we didn't make them?

 

[deadhead]

Again, extreme what-if ism. There's no reason this team coulsnt have not acquired bad players and given them long contracts, and been just as bad to draft where we did. In that event, better would be not paying assets to move players we just signed, while also not giving contracts with term to players who have no worth to a rebuilding team - aka Deslauriers.

Instead, we got a "competitive team" filled with garbage that consistently performed worse than its previous iteration.

We could have been set up to be much better if we didn't make all those terrible moves. Full stop.

Those terrible moves were due to the FO insisting on being competitive.
To suggest they should have made moves to help a rebuild when the FO insisted they weren't going to rebuild . . .

They weren't going to acquire bad players and give them long contracts, for one thing, they didn't have the cap room to do so (without dumping Ghost and Voracek), and since they wanted to compete, they would have added better veterans if they had a better GM.

Aren't you the guy who said a 1st (14th overall) and a 2nd + Hagg was market value for Risto?

It was, look at the prices for Savard and Chariot.
Didn't mean it was a deal they should have made, that's a totally different matter.
Teams overvalue big physical D-men at the TDL.

Peeke is the #7 D-man on CBJ, what's his market value?

 

[Starat327]

Those terrible moves were due to the FO insisting on being competitive.
To suggest they should have made moves to help a rebuild when the FO insisted they weren't going to rebuild . . .

They weren't going to acquire bad players and give them long contracts, for one thing, they didn't have the cap room to do so (without dumping Ghost and Voracek), and since they wanted to compete, they would have added better veterans if they had a better GM.


It was, look at the prices for Savard and Chariot.
Didn't mean it was a deal they should have made, that's a totally different matter.
Teams overvalue big physical D-men at the TDL.

Peeke is the #7 D-man on CBJ, what's his market value?

And this is why they're a bad team, and will be for quite some time.

 

[deadhead]

And this is why they're a bad team, and will be for quite some time.

Well, they're a better team than 2-3 years ago, and those bad teams got them Gauthier and Michkov.

So "all's well that ends well."

 

[Starat327]

Well, they're a better team than 2-3 years ago, and those bad teams got them Gauthier and Michkov.

So "all's well that ends well."

A bad process that leads to a fortuitous result only "ends well" when it comes to the lottery. Id rather be good than lucky unless we're talking game 7 of the finals. Good is repeatable. Lucky, not so much.

Also, Gauthier isn't a prospect I'd tout as anything ending well, especially for who else was available at that pick, but I know you'll blindly defend it tooth and nail, so there's no reason to go down that road.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

It means he’s likely not dealing with broken toes or a fractured skull. All else though, is still fair game.

Personally I’m betting on a torn quad coupled with gout and bleeding hemorrhoids

Zombie Ellis bite infection..

calling it now..

 

[Tripod]

For fun, how has that 3rd pairing PP only Dman Ghost done since leaving Philly. You know, since he was never the same.

0.6 ppg pace= 49 pts/82 games
5th in goals
24th in pts
7th in PP goals
20th in PP pts
17th in ES goals
35th in ES pts

To think Fletch PAID to remove him, then used that $ on Risto and his acquisition cost and extention. THEN also added Yandle and ADA to try and replace what was lost in the PP.

It really Is a case study of incompetence and pissing away 5 high draft picks.

One mistake Fletch

 

[Curufinwe]

Teams overvalue big physical D-men at the TDL.

The Flyers constantly overvalue big physical D-men. One Mistake Fletcher traded for Risto in July.

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Thank you for the amazing 9 years

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Peeke is listed as 6'3", 196. Probably an old weight and he's 200+ now at age 25. And Torts coached him back in 2021.

 

[deadhead]

A bad process that leads to a fortuitous result only "ends well" when it comes to the lottery. Id rather be good than lucky unless we're talking game 7 of the finals. Good is repeatable. Lucky, not so much.

Also, Gauthier isn't a prospect I'd tout as anything ending well, especially for who else was available at that pick, but I know you'll blindly defend it tooth and nail, so there's no reason to go down that road.

It was either Jiricek or Gauthier. Gauthier was probably the best forward, it's not like Kasper, Savoie or Geekie are blowing people away. Savoie might be the best of the three. Winnipeg had Savoie, Benson and Geekie, so that was a pretty loaded CHL team.

I'd be more upset with the slow progress of Nemec at #2 if I were a NJ fan. Back in the AHL for a second season, with Bahl at #5 and 34 year old Brendan Smith as their 6th D-man.

You wanted the two offense first LHDs that went afterwards, Korchinski (#7) and Mintyukov (#10). We'll see how they turn out.

 

[deadhead]

For fun, how has that 3rd pairing PP only Dman Ghost done since leaving Philly. You know, since he was never the same.

0.6 ppg pace= 49 pts/82 games
5th in goals
24th in pts
7th in PP goals
20th in PP pts
17th in ES goals
35th in ES pts

To think Fletch PAID to remove him, then used that $ on Risto and his acquisition cost and extention. THEN also added Yandle and ADA to try and replace what was lost in the PP.

It really Is a case study of incompetence and pissing away 5 high draft picks.

One mistake Fletch

Fletcher was fired, last I heard.

Ghost padded his stats in Zona, Carolina showed how he was seen by a good team.

He's a role player, and even in Detroit he's fifth in ES minutes per 60, just ahead of Holl and Maata. On PP1 with Seider. Being used the way he was used in Carolina.

 

[thedjpd]

Yeah, I think you're reaching hard.

I think Sanheim's dominance has nothing to do with Torts, and everything to do with the fact that he woke up because of an almost trade and really took himself seriously this summer. Nobody believes that he just suddenly added 20lbs of muscle over one summer or whatever, but even if he did, why did it take him till age 27 to do that? He couldn't do that last year, and just chose to stay skinny as a rail?

Flyers got lucky here, for sure, but I do definitely think there was some leisure in some of these guys' attitudes.

The problem with this theory is that Sanheim has had really good seasons before, long before the botched trade attempt and his alleged body transformation. The main difference now is that Provorov isn't in the way getting underserved top pairing and PP minutes.

People keep saying this about Provorov, but browse by the CBJ board and they’re raving about how he’s a #1 and playing awesome. Offensively and defensively.

So, perspective matters. If Sanheim took the backseat role to Provorov, it’s because he didn’t play like the alpha dog. That’s an attitude, not talent.

 

[Starat327]

Weird, cause Sanheim was the alpha dog when they played together, much like all of Provorovs partners were when he played well (Ghost and Niskanen). Sanheim even did it playing his offside.