2023-24 Roster Thread #6: A Hall of Famer, a doctor, a policeman and a moose walk into a bar with a Bundy...

Who are your three favorite current Flyers' players (from Oct. 30 roster on team's website)?


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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Provorov is playing well in CBJ, on the second pair.

Which is what we knew, he's a very good second pair D-man, a 1st pair D-man with a partner who can carry him, but not an alpha.

I think the same is probably true with Sanheim, get him a reliable RHD and move him back to LHD, and I think he'll be an anchor - at RHD, not so sure. It's been solid, but a bit inconsistent with York so far.
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
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:deadhorse Fletcher was fired, last I heard.

Ghost padded his stats in Zona, Carolina showed how he was seen by a good team.

He's a role player, and even in Detroit he's fifth in ES minutes per 60, just ahead of Holl and Maata. On PP1 with Seider. Being used the way he was used in Carolina.
You bring up hextall almost every day and he was fired almost 5 years ago.

Hypocrite
 

thedjpd

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Weird, cause Sanheim was the alpha dog when they played together, much like all of Provorovs partners were when he played well (Ghost and Niskanen). Sanheim even did it playing his offside.

No he wasn’t. He was up during that time, and then went downhill again. When Ghost played with Provorov they also dominated. For 20ish or 30ish games. Ghost isn’t an alpha anywhere, but looked like one playing with Provorov.

Sanheim is/was the exact same player - somebody who has a ton of talent but has really high highs and really low lows. That’s always been his criticism.

At the moment, he’s on a high - it’s only been 10 games. His added weight and changed attitude are showing a far more assertive Sanheim. He’s always had this - just not consistently. Here’s hoping to see him continue.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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Ghost padded his stats in Zona, Carolina showed how he was seen by a good team.

He's a role player, and even in Detroit he's fifth in ES minutes per 60, just ahead of Holl and Maata. On PP1 with Seider. Being used the way he was used in Carolina.
Ghost got 17:00 a game in Carolina behind one of the best top 4s in the whole league. In Detroit he's getting almost 20 minutes a game, and his stats are 9 points in 10 games on a "good team". This obviously drives you nuts because Fletcher turning Ghost and four high value draft picks into a broken down Ristolainen has been one of the biggest trade disasters in Flyers history, and you've spent two and a half years making excuses for it. :dunce:
 

Curufinwe

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If TK had converted just one of his golden opportunities in the last two games, he would have scored his 40th goal in his last 70 games.

 
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Starat327

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No he wasn’t. He was up during that time, and then went downhill again. When Ghost played with Provorov they also dominated. For 20ish or 30ish games. Ghost isn’t an alpha anywhere, but looked like one playing with Provorov.

Sanheim is/was the exact same player - somebody who has a ton of talent but has really high highs and really low lows. That’s always been his criticism.

At the moment, he’s on a high - it’s only been 10 games. His added weight and changed attitude are showing a far more assertive Sanheim. He’s always had this - just not consistently. Here’s hoping to see him continue.

K.
 

MiamiScreamingEagles

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Must make Sandstrom feel special lol

IIRC, a player has to grant a conditioning loan assignment to the AHL. The Commissioner can actually penalize a team if he deems the assignment is done for Cap purposes or otherwise nefarious. While I don't think that is in play here with the injury to Hart, if Sandstrom was sent due to legit conditioning, then it probably would be seen as contradictory to return him to the NHL without much game action in the minors. Just a hunch on my part.
 

Beef Invictus

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Those terrible moves were due to the FO insisting on being competitive.
To suggest they should have made moves to help a rebuild when the FO insisted they weren't going to rebuild . . .

They weren't going to acquire bad players and give them long contracts, for one thing, they didn't have the cap room to do so (without dumping Ghost and Voracek), and since they wanted to compete, they would have added better veterans if they had a better GM.


It was, look at the prices for Savard and Chariot.
Didn't mean it was a deal they should have made, that's a totally different matter.
Teams overvalue big physical D-men at the TDL.

Peeke is the #7 D-man on CBJ, what's his market value?

The FO telling him to make the team good actually doesn't excuse him making the team bad
 

GapToothedWonder

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Dec 20, 2013
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Where's the none option? All these players could be traded tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me one bit
I'm in the same boat. Not that there aren't some good players. I just feel no connection with them or the team.

If anything the players I like I want them to move because I both feel bad for them and want them to go to a decent team so I can cheer for them.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Last season, the Flyers carried the puck into the offensive zone at five-on-five on just 42.24 percent of their zone entries, which was significantly below the league average of 49.1 percent that tracker extraordinaire Corey Sznajder found in his league-wide work.

This season? They’re all the way up at 51.19 percent controlled entries (eight of ten games tracked), a near-ten percentage point jump. Opponents 44.69%

They’ve outshot the opposition in seven of ten games, leading 334 – 267 (+67) in aggregate. They’ve outchanced opponents (per Natural Stat Trick’s public chance metrics) in seven of ten games as well. And at five-on-five, the Flyers have earned a 55.91 percent expected goal share, ranking them seventh in the NHL, and well above where they finished in 2022-23 (47.24 percent — 24th in the league).

How does a team like the Flyers, who are trying to open things up without completely sacrificing their defensive soundness, decide when to stretch the neutral zone, and when to hang back? For Tortorella, it’s the distinction between “anticipating” and “cheating.” One is desirable, even encouraged in the new environment in Philadelphia. The other? Not so much.

“When it starts working — and it has, I think we have played a much quicker pace and a much, much quicker style offensively — when it starts working, they think they can do it all the time,” he said. “And they start anticipating maybe a little bit too quickly on our first touch. And that’s when it starts turning into cheating.”

Tortorella noted. "I do not want to overcoach them. I want us to take chances. I do. That’s a big part of my coaching here this year, is if there’s a mistake made — a turnover when they’re trying to make a play at the blue line, or leaving the zone to try to create offense. If I think they’re doing it for the right reason, and it’s the right timing, and they’re trying to make plays and it doesn’t work? I don’t say anything,” he explained.

Tortorella acknowledged that the coaching staff does pay attention to tracked stats like controlled entry and dump-in totals, that he relies upon assistants Rocky Thompson and Brad Shaw to comb through the data and pick out any positive or troubling trends that appear, and present that information to him if they deem it necessary. He’s still going by his eyes and his gut to tell him what the right balance is, when anticipation is crossing over into cheating or when players are starting to stray a bit too far from the structural gains they made in 2022-23.

“I’ve always said: sometimes the head coach gets blinders on,” he admitted. “Sometimes the analytics (have) to bring me back, (if) something really good is going on, or we’re going off the rails in this area. My coaches let me know.”


Told you Torts likes an aggressive style of play, just had to install discipline into this team.
I saw this looking at CBJ, Torts isn't going to run a Florida offense first scheme, but he's not a Hakstol/Trotz defense first HC either. He wants a team that attacks, takes measured risks, but doesn't cheat on fundamentals.

This team doesn't have the talent to really make this system work, they struggle to finish and don't have the defensive core to move the puck consistently. But the structure is being established, once that's in place, inserting more talented players will be easier. It's a fun team to watch now, they're still going to lose, but there's lots of action for both teams.
 
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Cody Webster

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Beef Invictus

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I remember hearing on and on about how Tortorella is an offensive guru based on Expected Goals over a large sample size, yet ignoring actual goals scored.

Tortorella opposes many of the plays that cause goals to be scored. Hence why their actual goals scored ends up being lower, often much lower, than their xG stats.

Surely this victory lap, where that is again the case, won't prove to be premature for the 5th or 6th year in a row, though. Especially since Tortorella hasn't finished ratcheting down offense yet. It is on his to-do list though. He already lamented plays that were creating great chances and said they need to be getting pucks deep. Basically, we have to hope guys like Frost, TK, and Farabee just ignore him.
 

JojoTheWhale

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May 22, 2008
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I have a major problem with the way we describe coaches and their systems as freestanding buildings with distinct walls. 2016 Columbus didn’t play the same way 2020 Columbus did for example. Go look at their gaps on breakouts and how they shrunk over the years.
 

deadhead

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I never claimed Torts was an "offensive guru," that's your delusional reading.

What I said before, and the same thing is happening here, is his preferred style of play leads to a high rate of scoring chances for both teams - he coaches an aggressive forecheck and wants his players to transition quickly off turnovers - and accepts they'll be caught up ice at times.

This is also why he stresses back checking, you may be too late to stop the initial 3 on 2 or 2 on 1, but you can get there in time to break up the play after the D-man thwarts the initial scoring chance with good positioning.

I have a major problem with the way we describe coaches and their systems as freestanding buildings with distinct walls. 2016 Columbus didn’t play the same way 2020 Columbus did for example. Go look at their gaps on breakouts and how they shrunk over the years.
Torts played a very defense oriented scheme after he lost Panarin, Duchene and Bob, for some reason.
 

Beef Invictus

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I never claimed Torts was an "offensive guru," that's your delusional reading.

What I said before, and the same thing is happening here, is his preferred style of play leads to a high rate of scoring chances for both teams - he coaches an aggressive forecheck and wants his players to transition quickly off turnovers - and accepts they'll be caught up ice at times.

This is also why he stresses back checking, you may be too late to stop the initial 3 on 2 or 2 on 1, but you can get there in time to break up the play after the D-man thwarts the initial scoring chance with good positioning.


Torts played a very defense oriented scheme after he lost Panarin, Duchene and Bob, for some reason.

Oh sorry, you didn't use those exact words, you just claimed at length and repeatedly that he loves offense and has a great understanding of it and encourages it, and you couldn't be dissuaded by any evidence that isn't the case.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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One might say, Torts is giving them more rope.

Also...



"They weren't going to acquire bad players and give them long contracts"

Risto says hi
Were they rebuilding when they extended Risto? Of course not, since the FO refused to even mention the word, Scott said they were "aggressively reloading."

What happened before Briere/Torts is meaningless, unless you want to sell me your tinfoil hat "ole bois" conspiracy theories.
 
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