2023-24 Roster Thread #6: A Hall of Famer, a doctor, a policeman and a moose walk into a bar with a Bundy...

[BillDineen]

32 Thoughts Friedman said teams were asking what is Philly doing with Walker?

He is playing well enough to get attention.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They're keeping him until he has no value instead of leveraging him into something useful for the Michkov era.

 

[Curufinwe]

Some people are getting overly excited by the little run of good play by the club and are dreaming of making the POs this season. Today the Flyers are tied for 8th place in the East with Detroit. Most likely there Red Wings will pass them as the season goes on and so will Ottawa, Pittsburgh and New Jersey. They have better rosters than the Flyers.

I think they are going to regress, especially if Hart goes missing for a while, but right now they are 7th in the East, 13th overall. You can't go by points when teams haven't played the same amount of games.

Tampa is the current non-playoff team I'm sure will get in, assuming Vas comes back 100%.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

1 Bos .875
2. NYR .833
3. Fla .676
4. Was .667
5. Tor .647
6. Car .588
7. Phi .583
8. Det .559
9. TB . 556
10. Ott .533
11. NJ .531
12. Pit .529

 

[Curufinwe]

The only way for Frost to stay in the lineup is to produce every single game. If he has 4 points in 3 games, and the next game he doesn't produce -- that's not good enough. Tortorella's bar for remaining in the lineup is McDavid scoring.

The really funny thing is that Frost is not leaking goals against in the very SSS that is his 23-24 season. In fact, it's the exact opposite - the only regular with a lower ES GA/60 than Frost is Belpedio. So what is it about Frost that Torts hates so much?

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[GKJ]

I think they are going to regress, especially if Hart goes missing for a while, but right now they are 7th in the East, 13th overall. You can't go by points when teams haven't played the same amount of games.

Tampa is the current non-playoff team I'm sure will get in, assuming Vas comes back 100%.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

1 Bos .875
2. NYR .833
3. Fla .676
4. Was .667
5. Tor .647
6. Car .588
7. Phi .583
8. Det .559
9. TB . 556
10. Ott .533
11. NJ .531
12. Pit .529

At some point the penguins and devils gotta find it. No one else not currently in the playoffs does though.

No matter what happens the rest of this season, the team is not going to be able to fight off expectations of making the playoffs and winning a round next year.

 

[Tripod]

I think they are going to regress, especially if Hart goes missing for a while, but right now they are 7th in the East, 13th overall. You can't go by points when teams haven't played the same amount of games.

Tampa is the current non-playoff team I'm sure will get in, assuming Vas comes back 100%.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

1 Bos .875
2. NYR .833
3. Fla .676
4. Was .667
5. Tor .647
6. Car .588
7. Phi .583
8. Det .559
9. TB . 556
10. Ott .533
11. NJ .531
12. Pit .529

Crazy how Washington turned things around going 8-1-1 in their last 10. Was not expecting that.

 

[Curufinwe]

Crazy how Washington turned things around going 8-1-1 in their last 10. Was not expecting that.

The NAK effect.

 

[VladDrag]

The really funny thing is that Frost is not leaking goals against in the very SSS that is his 23-24 season. In fact, it's the exact opposite - the only regular with a lower ES GA/60 than Frost is Belpedio. So what is it about Frost that Torts hates so much?

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

And it's not just that he produced points, he scored a goal the exact way Torts wanted the team to score. He went to the front of the net and got a deflection. He continued to head to the front of the net looking for traffic. He's doing everything Torts is asking of the team.

It's been fairly obvious leading up to this point, but now it's painfully obvious that he just doesn't think Frost brings value. We all know, this isn't anything new. He first did this with Zuccarello, then he did it with Karlsson. John Tortorella does not trust this type of player. The diminutive non-physical offensively-minded forward (BTW all three of these players have been plus defensively over the majority of their careers).

 

[Curufinwe]

Yup, now it's for Briere to make a move that benefits the team, and Frost.

 

[landsbergfan]

Haven’t watched enough to know, but I have doubts that Coots being back and the team playing well is a coincidence

 

[renberg]

Haven’t watched enough to know, but I have doubts that Coots being back and the team playing well is a coincidence

The guy is so under appreciated

 

[VladDrag]

Haven’t watched enough to know, but I have doubts that Coots being back and the team playing well is a coincidence

Coots has been good, no doubt. He's not been absolutely fabulous like ~2016 to 2020, but he's been what you'd expect. Torts started playing him 20+ mins a game. He missed one game early in the season for an injury unrelated to his back. Ever since then, he's played around the 18 min. I still worry about him long term.

 

[freakydallas13]

Coots has been good, no doubt. He's not been absolutely fabulous like ~2016 to 2020, but he's been what you'd expect. Torts started playing him 20+ mins a game. He missed one game early in the season for an injury unrelated to his back. Ever since then, he's played around the 18 min. I still worry about him long term.

I don't love the idea of Torts riding Couts hard this season to squeeze as many wins out of this roster as possible, especially at the cost of grinding Couts' back into dust.

But you just know the authentics don't care and want wins at all costs.

I also have a bad feeling the team won't want to sell high on Walker or Atkinson or Konecny, because they are eyeing playoff possibility. I can't reconcile the fun of watching the team on ice with the doom their success will encourage management with.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Shocked.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Yup, now it's for Briere to make a move that benefits the team, and Frost.

Does it matter tho, if it's not a trade for a Torts type they won't play.

At this point just give me draft pick for Frost, and man I hope he goes off with his new team.

A team like the Hawks or Sharks should be looking to snag him.

 

[Curufinwe]

Frost for a 3rd seems about right after they ruined his value.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Shocked.

Insane they ever doubted this.

 

[trostol]

Insane they ever doubted this.

well, they are intent they are rebuilding so...

 

[BillDineen]

Seravalli calling this season a "nightmare"! Saying they need to trade tk at the deadline

 

[eramosat]

It's great to have options. So many more players with increased trade value than we anticipated before the season started. I think Flyers will go re-build routine, as opposed to playoffs routine when decision time comes.
Pros?
1) They have way too much salary cap burdened for the next 3 seasons to dream of really competing, or even tweaking the roster for playoff success. Petersen, Hayes, DeAngelo. Including Ellis IR contract putting dampers on any cap manipulations to their favour,
2) Some tradeable gifts have fallen into their laps. Namely Sean Walker!, but Seeler too is still compelling, both are UFA and tradeable and 100% unnecessary for a rebuild. Staal is also maybe a moveable piece. For forwards, its Laughton! and Atkinson.
(b) Also, the demonstrated capability in the NHL of brand new additions Zemula Belpedio Brink and Foerster enhances the idea of shedding older players while remaining somewhat competitive. If it's a rebuild, than this is a huge positive trend.
Cons?
1) I expect the appreciation of the fans in WFC, and the overall pickup in fan appreciation of the team is a huge factor in future decisions. Butts in seats should have been #1 on the PowerPOint slide for 2023-24 success metrics. Followed by "change the narrative from bad to good" which they are doing. Unloading players will probably hurt that.

When I look at how the team is performing, it seems pretty clear that the Flyers can make $$$ and satisfy fans while continuing with a rebuild approach. And nobody they decide to turn into future assets this year should affect that balancing act too much. Fingers crossed this high-wire act continues.

 

[thedjpd]

It's great to have options. So many more players with increased trade value than we anticipated before the season started. I think Flyers will go re-build routine, as opposed to playoffs routine when decision time comes.
Pros?
1) They have way too much salary cap burdened for the next 3 seasons to dream of really competing, or even tweaking the roster for playoff success. Petersen, Hayes, DeAngelo. Including Ellis IR contract putting dampers on any cap manipulations to their favour,
2) Some tradeable gifts have fallen into their laps. Namely Sean Walker!, but Seeler too is still compelling, both are UFA and tradeable and 100% unnecessary for a rebuild. Staal is also maybe a moveable piece. For forwards, its Laughton! and Atkinson.
(b) Also, the demonstrated capability in the NHL of brand new additions Zemula Belpedio Brink and Foerster enhances the idea of shedding older players while remaining somewhat competitive. If it's a rebuild, than this is a huge positive trend.
Cons?
1) I expect the appreciation of the fans in WFC, and the overall pickup in fan appreciation of the team is a huge factor in future decisions. Butts in seats should have been #1 on the PowerPOint slide for 2023-24 success metrics. Followed by "change the narrative from bad to good" which they are doing. Unloading players will probably hurt that.

When I look at how the team is performing, it seems pretty clear that the Flyers can make $$$ and satisfy fans while continuing with a rebuild approach. And nobody they decide to turn into future assets this year should affect that balancing act too much. Fingers crossed this high-wire act continues.

I appreciate your last few posts among the torrid negativity here.

I think to me, let's not add unless we're getting blown away. It's even ok to keep some of our players (i.e. Walker) if they don't garner high end assets (2nd+) or may not be overtly expensive to keep around (short term deal).

The super old players? Atkinson, Staal? Absolutely. Let them go. Just open up roles for younger players should be the approach - but I do agree with Torts, having played on teams in my earlier days - winning begets winning.

Everybody has been waiting for the Bruins to suck for years now - it hasn't happened. They keep losing players and while they're not the powerhouse they were, they're still in it. I'd prefer that to the Sabres.

 

[eramosat]

I appreciate your last few posts among the torrid negativity here.

I think to me, let's not add unless we're getting blown away. It's even ok to keep some of our players (i.e. Walker) if they don't garner high end assets (2nd+) or may not be overtly expensive to keep around (short term deal).

The super old players? Atkinson, Staal? Absolutely. Let them go. Just open up roles for younger players should be the approach - but I do agree with Torts, having played on teams in my earlier days - winning begets winning.

Everybody has been waiting for the Bruins to suck for years now - it hasn't happened. They keep losing players and while they're not the powerhouse they were, they're still in it. I'd prefer that to the Sabres.

yeah. It's a losing battle, and a weird one.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It would be dumb to trade Konecny barring some kind of massive too-good-to-be-true offer that a contender is unlikely to be able to make, as they won’t have a high lottery pick.

 

[BiggE]

Some people are getting overly excited by the little run of good play by the club and are dreaming of making the POs this season. Today the Flyers are tied for 8th place in the East with Detroit. Most likely there Red Wings will pass them as the season goes on and so will Ottawa, Pittsburgh and New Jersey. They have better rosters than the Flyers.
My fear is that delusion will set in and the FO will believe that they can make the PO for a fruitless one and out experience. I'm positive that Tortorella will be leading that charge. He's not the guy to lead a rebuild. He'll push for extending the vets and acquiring some more of them. I doubt that Briere has the strength to push back on Torts and do the right things in order to hold the course.

 

[FlyTimmo]

It would be dumb to trade Konecny barring some kind of massive too-good-to-be-true offer that a contender is unlikely to be able to make, as they won’t have a high lottery pick.

Send him to Carolina for Nikishin, a 1st and a 2nd.