2023-24 Roster Thread #5: Where the boos aren't limited to Halloween

[Hextallent63]

This argument that the flyers are shit at development is really old, but ill say it again, they are shit. Phillipe Myers 100% was destroyed as a player by this org. there are others too, but to me he is the best example to use, because of the player he was early on, the steps he took, and the player they tried to make him. And what they turned him into. Go watch him in games he played for the flyers. the beginning of him being and nhl defenseman early on, then his last season here. He was over coached and didnt know what to do half the time on the ice. It was sad. I even read somewhere that NV or TB, i cant remember said something along the lines of , hes a good nhl defensemen, he just needs to un-learn what he has been taught and rediscover his game.

 

[DancingPanther]

This argument that the flyers are shit at development is really old, but ill say it again, they are shit. Phillipe Myers 100% was destroyed as a player by this org. there are others too, but to me he is the best example to use, because of the player he was early on, the steps he took, and the player they tried to make him. And what they turned him into. Go watch him in games he played for the flyers. the beginning of him being and nhl defenseman early on, then his last season here. He was over coached and didnt know what to do half the time on the ice. It was sad. I even read somewhere that NV or TB, i cant remember said something along the lines of , hes a good nhl defensemen, he just needs to un-learn what he has been taught and rediscover his game.

It was Nashville, yeah. They literally said on record the Flyers ruined him lol. And we still, apparently, have people that don't think development is a huge issue within the org! Amazing

There's also this gem:

"[Lyksell] wants to play a possession game and turn back with the puck at times. It was a habit that he had to break" - Flahr

 

[Hextallent63]

It was Nashville, yeah. They literally said on record the Flyers ruined him lol. And we still, apparently, have people that don't think development is a huge issue within the org! Amazing

There's also this gem:

"[Lyksell] wants to play a possession game and turn back with the puck at times. It was a habit that he had to break" - Flahr

watch a Tampa game, any over the last 5 or 6 years and tell me flahr knows wtf he is talking about. regardless of Leksell's' talent, he is talking about how the nhl is effectively played now, and when he was coming up over the years wherever it was he played. Flahr is talking non-sense.

 

[BiggE]

Halloween 3

Any of:
The Exorcist
Rosemary’s Baby
or if I want one with some laughs,
An American Werewolf in London

 

[deadhead]

watch a Tampa game, any over the last 5 or 6 years and tell me flahr knows wtf he is talking about. regardless of Leksell's' talent, he is talking about how the nhl is effectively played now, and when he was coming up over the years wherever it was he played. Flahr is talking non-sense.

Are you saying Lycksell could play in the TB top 9?

"This is how the NHL is effectively played now?"

Sure, if you're McDavid or Crosby or Point or Bedard or Hughes - top talents can take chances and do things that lesser talents shouldn't even try. It's one thing for Makar to skate through three defenders in the neutral zone, but I wouldn't advise Risto to try that.

Lycksell ain't talented enough to play "Cute" hockey, all it'll do is result in turnovers.

 

[Hextallent63]

Are you saying Lycksell could play in the TB top 9?

"This is how the NHL is effectively played now?"

Sure, if you're McDavid or Crosby or Point or Bedard or Hughes - top talents can take chances and do things that lesser talents shouldn't even try. It's one thing for Makar to skate through three defenders in the neutral zone, but I wouldn't advise Risto to try that.

Lycksell ain't talented enough to play "Cute" hockey, all it'll do is result in turnovers.

You kind of missed my point. maybe i wasnt very clear. the point wasnt about the player but flahr, hes a donut.

 

[renberg]

There just is no doubt that the Flyers have consistently tried to pound square pegs into round holes with their draftees. It makes one wonder why they even selected the player in the first place. Morin is a prime example of this. Stripping him of his offensive potential and bearing down on him to be better on defense is a prime case of mistreatment. The two didn’t have to be exclusive of each other. Even with Lycksell, he can move the puck which some other Flyers have had difficulties doing. Why crush that skill?
It’s for reasons such as this that I fear what they will do with Gauthier, Foerster and others young players. Their skills need to be utilized not ground out of them. Every player has deficiencies but good coaches recognizes their assets and puts them into positions to succeed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

is that what you take out of that? one size fits all approach?

so then its all on development when a player does not become an nhl player. understood.

I didn't say that.

I don't blame the Flyers for every player not being something. Just when it can be easily observed that they're handling them badly. Which happens to be often.

How come you can't present any examples?! You claim development is poor. Then you defend the process every time it is criticized.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The two are not mutually exclusive. They didn't draft skill, and they didn't do a good job of developing 4th line muckers. But I don't think that's what YOU mean by bad development.


Did you watch them play? What offensive skill set did either player possess? Morin couldn't even skate with a puck without looking down,

Why would anyone deliberately draft muckers? That's a shitty plan. Holmgren used to draft specifically for the 4th line and it always failed.


The drafted more than enough skill. They then ground the skill out of players so they'd all fit the one narrow definition of how to play the game. No flash. Only grind.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's hard to say.

They tried giving Provorov more offensive responsibilities, but I think that just exposed his limitations. He's a decent offensive defenseman, but doesn't seem to have great vision.

Sanheim is great in transition, but not finishing in the O-zone. On the PP, Ghost, Yandle and now York seem better suited as PP QBs. Andrae may also turn out to be as good or better. TDA was better in NY and Carolina, though he struggled here.

I still contend the primary issue was drafting, and the philosophy of Holmgren/Hextall. Morin was intriguing b/c of his size, but he wasn't going to be the next Pronger with his inability to handle a puck in traffic. Drafted way too high, probably should have been last 1st or 2nd rd. Hagg and Ginning in the 2nd or Southeran in the 5th. It isn't that the latter will turn out better, but he's picked where you don't care.

If you overdraft, the expectations may lead you to put more blame on development than is deserved. No one is going to blame development if Samson, Zanetti or McDonald fail to become NHL players.

It's easy to say

 

[Tripod]

We didn't draft skill yet somehow had a 3 year period where we sent the most players to the WJC in the league each year.

Hell 1 year we sent 10 guys.

For the 100th time, who spent time in the AHL and saw their value go UP due to that time in the AHL? Not 1 guy. None. Oh wait....Max Willman....hahahahaha.

 

[Striiker]

I don't blame the Flyers for every player not being something. Just when it can be easily observed that they're handling them badly. Which happens to be often.

Pretty easy to figure out. For example:

Ginning was shit when drafted, so him being shit isn't the Flyers fault.

NAK was good when drafted, was good when allowed to play, and then misused/buried/wasted and eventually thrown away... which is not what a good team does with positive value assets.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Oh wait....Max Willman....hahahahaha.

Hayden Hodgson would like a word.

 

[deadhead]

Silk purses and sows' ears.

 

[flyersnorth]

Very good interview with Jones on STG.

He's open and nuanced, and appears to be saying all the things that make it sound like he and the organization get it - so that's positive.

 

[Curufinwe]

He said they were going to fire Torts and get a coach who can actually develop young players in 2023?

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's Jones' job to lie to the fanbase. Nothing has changed, but he dresses it up like it has. It's one big fraud.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Very good interview with Jones on STG.

He's open and nuanced, and appears to be saying all the things that make it sound like he and the organization get it - so that's positive.

Going to listen now - I love Jones as a guy. We shall see what he does, but he definitely is pro fans. I respect that.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I didn't say that.

I don't blame the Flyers for every player not being something. Just when it can be easily observed that they're handling them badly. Which happens to be often.

How come you can't present any examples?! You claim development is poor. Then you defend the process every time it is criticized.

I do not. That is once again your false narrative. Saying they didnt ruin nak and myers isn't defending.

Samu is an example of where the development process went wrong.

Pretty easy to figure out. For example:

Ginning was shit when drafted, so him being shit isn't the Flyers fault.

NAK was good when drafted, was good when allowed to play, and then misused/buried/wasted and eventually thrown away... which is not what a good team does with positive value assets.

are toronto and colorado good teams?

can you define what a positive value asset is in your opinion.

Any of:
The Exorcist
Rosemary’s Baby
or if I want one with some laughs,
An American Werewolf in London

good jersey band

 

[deadhead]

We didn't draft skill yet somehow had a 3 year period where we sent the most players to the WJC in the league each year.

Hell 1 year we sent 10 guys.

For the 100th time, who spent time in the AHL and saw their value go UP due to that time in the AHL? Not 1 guy. None. Oh wait....Max Willman....hahahahaha.

Didn't Zanetti go to the WJC?
Who actually excelled at the WJC like Gauthier has?

 

[flyersnorth]

Going to listen now - I love Jones as a guy. We shall see what he does, but he definitely is pro fans. I respect that.

100%. He has always come across as a thoughtful and genuine guy. As a broadcaster, he seemed to know how to be both critical and respectful at the same time.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I do not. That is once again your false narrative. Saying they didnt ruin nak and myers isn't defending.

Samu is an example of where the development process went wrong.


are toronto and colorado good teams?

can you define what a positive value asset is in your opinion.


good jersey band

It is defending. You defended the process with Frost, too. Even though it was blatantly bad. You fully blamed him, and repeatedly called him a bust. Turns out he wasn't a bust. He was just being handled wretchedly. Still is.

Every time someone spots a bad development process at work, you insist it's fine.

 

[GKJ]

tampa has the league terrified

It’s strange the lengths we’re going to in order to keep a will-be 27 year old goaltender whose only extended body of work produced an .880 sv%

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It is defending. You defended the process with Frost, too. Even though it was blatantly bad. You fully blamed him, and repeatedly called him a bust. Turns out he wasn't a bust. He was just being handled wretchedly. Still is.

Every time someone spots a bad development process at work, you insist it's fine.

call it what you want. To say they ruined them is false.

Didnt defend the process with frost at all. In fact is was stupid to have him with slugs I have said that numerous times.

I hope frost does turn into a bust. Never said he was a bust.

more nonsense in bold.

 

[Beef Invictus]

call it what you want. To say they ruined them is false.

Didnt defend the process with frost at all. In fact is was stupid to have him with slugs I have said that numerous times.

I hope frost does turn into a bust. Never said he was a bust.

more nonsense in bold.

Why would you hope for Frost to bust? That makes no sense.

You did indeed call him a bust repeatedly. And you defended the process with him by blaming him for everything. As always.