Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[hohosaregood]

I’ll raise my hand to the idea that trading Timo could turn out badly. I just don’t think trading him to tank is smart.
There is no guarantee we’ll get who we want or that he will be what we want.

There's not really an upside to either option tbh. You can keep Timo and he can be a superstar for us, on his own. While we struggle to build something around him, which is not guaranteed as we've seen the last few years.

Or you can let him go and be a superstar somewhere else with a good supporting cast. And we can try to build something new with what we get in return for him, which is not guaranteed based on the failed rebuilds we've seen.

 

[Alaskanice]

Of course there’s no guarantee that we get who we want or who we want turns out. But there’s no point in having Meier and paying him a huge contract when we won’t be any good for at least three years at the earliest. If you’d rather pick 10th overall for the next eight years, then sure, trading Meier is dumb. But if you want to actually build a team that is competitive and can grow together to become a contender, then you have to trade Meier and the sooner the better. Not only is he single-handedly winning us games, but he’s also our only really valuable trade chip.

We could end up with nothing from a Meier trade. But I would argue that nothing is better than giving him the eight year $70M contract that he deserves given where we are in our rebuild.

I’m not in the rebuild boat either. We can go on about what this does or that does. Nothing is certain. Especially in sports.

 

[anthonyyy]

I would rather have Norris and Stutzle rather than Karlsson. Never liked that trade one bit and how it concluded with signing Karlsson in the UFA period. DW's 2nd biggest choke. First is the trade for Kane.

Then there is DWjr's biggest choke which is drafting Merkley in the first round when he would be available in the 2nd. I have nothing against Merkley but he was not the type of defenseman the Sharks needed. Quite the opposite. If he was a 1st round shutdown type defender, Sharks would be a different team. Then there is the aspect of the Sharks organization ruining the young guns.

I don't blame Merkley for wanting a trade. I'm surprised there's not a Merkley wants out thread. That 1st round pick received much debate here. Good thing the Wilson era is over.

Now we just need to get rid of Hasso. Maybe bring back the Gund family.

They were trying to win the cup in 2019 when Timo and Labanc were on cheap contracts, and while they still had Pavelski and Thornton. Norris and Stutzle don't help them try to win in 2019.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I’m not in the rebuild boat either. We can go on about what this does or that does. Nothing is certain. Especially in sports.

So what is your plan then? Barely miss the playoffs every year while paying expensive contracts and picking 12th overall? What’s the point of that?

In other words, if you don’t want to tank, then how do you plan to make the Sharks competitive again?

Yep. The Kane trade was fine too. But the stipulation of losing a 1st for re-signing him, in addition to just signing him to that bloated contract when his reputation throughout the league was already trashed was just nonsensical. Really on-point with it being the worst move in a series of terrible moves from DW over his final few years. But hey, we have a banner for him now...

Right, the actual Kane trade if we hadn’t re-signed him was good, we would have only given up Danny O’Regan. It was re-signing him to that awful contract and giving up a first that made it awful.

 

[Groo]

Tomorrow Hasso turns 79. How many years is he willing not to field a competitive team? How bad does he want a SC winner?
Will he be willing to continue to be a spend to the cap team if he's losing money due to lousy attendance?

 

[Karl Prime]

I think the only way not rebuilding would work is if they got Bedard, or maybe even Carlsson. Then they would have Karlsson, Meier, Hertl, Bedard/Carlsson, Couture, Eklund, and Bordeleau. Then there would still be the matter of improving the D and goaltending but the base of a great forward group would be there.

But the prospect of getting a good return for Timo, and then a decent return for Erik (certainly better than what we thought two years ago), is just too tantalizing I think. Even if EK gets traded in the summer of '24 when he'll only have three years left, and then you'd still have another veteran presence for the rookie years of Ek and Bords.

 

[Alaskanice]

So what is your plan then? Barely miss the playoffs every year while paying expensive contracts and picking 12th overall? What’s the point of that?

In other words, if you don’t want to tank, then how do you plan to make the Sharks competitive again?


Right, the actual Kane trade if we hadn’t re-signed him was good, we would have only given up Danny O’Regan. It was re-signing him to that awful contract and giving up a first that made it awful.

That’s just it, I do not have a plan.
Now and again I’ll pipe up about this or that. The deeper stuff, I leave to those that get paid to do it. Or others here that so desire. I can say that no one here is right, me included. It’s all just supposition.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I’m not in the rebuild boat either. We can go on about what this does or that does. Nothing is certain. Especially in sports.

If a player doesn't want to stay when his contract comes up, you have to get what you can for him when you're not a playoff team. It's really that simple. Tanking doesn't even come into the equation here.

 

[Karl Prime]

Tomorrow Hasso turns 79. How many years is he willing not to field a competitive team? How bad does he want a SC winner?
Will he be willing to continue to be a spend to the cap team if he's losing money due to lousy attendance?

With the cap the way it is, there's no way they have a playoff-bound team in the next two seasons. Too many holes to fill. Even if the cap was 90 million and they could sign Pastrnak to a UFA deal (lol) they would still have a hard time improving the D and goaltending - and then there's the issue of the forward depth, anyway.

 

[landshark]

Small sample size, but Eyssimont is putting up ridiculous analytics since coming to SJ. In the 5 games he's played in so far he has:

5v5 CF% - 62%
5v5 xG% - 70%
5v5 SCF% - 71%
5v5 HDCF% - 86%

Pretty decent for a waiver pickup

I love that he's all hustle. But, something I've been noticing is he seems to be hustling to the right place as well.

 

[Groo]

With the cap the way it is, there's no way they have a playoff-bound team in the next two seasons. Too many holes to fill. Even if the cap was 90 million and they could sign Pastrnak to a UFA deal (lol) they would still have a hard time improving the D and goaltending - and then there's the issue of the forward depth, anyway.

IMO Hasso looked across the bay to what the Giants had been doing once they moved to Pac Bell/AT&T Park. The Giants had a good thing going by spending money to make money. Or at least not to lose money. It even eventually won them rings

 

[sharski]

IMO Hasso looked across the bay to what the Giants had been doing once they moved to Pac Bell/AT&T Park. The Giants had a good thing going by spending money to make money. Or at least not to lose money. It even eventually won them rings

If the sharks ever had the goalie equivalent of prime madbum they'd def have a cup

*sobs*

 

[Karl Prime]

IMO Hasso looked across the bay to what the Giants had been doing once they moved to Pac Bell/AT&T Park. The Giants had a good thing going by spending money to make money. Or at least not to lose money. It even eventually won them rings

Baseball is different in that a team could sign three, four, five good free agents in one winter and really bolster the team. No team can do that in the NHL unless it's Arizona. And the Giants had two young drafted stars in Posey and Bumgarner, so they were already ahead by the time 2010 came. They were like the Leafs or Oilers of 2017.

 

[Groo]

Baseball is different in that a team could sign three, four, five good free agents in one winter and really bolster the team. No team can do that in the NHL unless it's Arizona. And the Giants had two young drafted stars in Posey and Bumgarner, so they were already ahead by the time 2010 came. They were like the Leafs or Oilers of 2017.

It had been working for the Sharks for years. The big dif being the Giants ended up winning titles

 

[themelkman]

Best case scenario we are 4-5 years out from being good. Think we need an entire flip of roster, coaching and management to get there.

 

[one2gamble]

Honestly we should be worried about what happens post Hasso.

 

[Gecklund]

If Grier really wants to be competitive sooner, he needs to go all in for these Russian guys with contracts. My plan if I were him would be to be competitive for the 26-27 season.

1. Trade Timo for Nikishin+Drury+1st

2. Draft Michkov

3. Trade Karlsson (2M retained) for Barrie+Pulju+Petrov+23 1st

4. Draft Jiricek in 2024

5. Draft Misa in 2025

Boom we are now competitive as soon as Nikishin and Michkov come over

Drury-Misa-Michkov
Eklund-Hertl-Petrov
Robins-Bystedt-Bordeleau
Coe and others

Nikishin-Laroque
Cicek-Jiricek
Furlong-Havelid

Beautiful.

Seriously though if we can get Michkov and Nikishin AND get them to both come over once their contracts are done in the KHL, that would do wonders for our rebuild. That’d basically guarantee that we’d be bad for the next couple years without multiple prospects just taking huge strides.

 

[Friday]

This makes me think they really did try this year. The decided its not possible recently and now next year is full tank.

 

[hohosaregood]

Honestly we should be worried about what happens post Hasso.

Maybe best case scenario would be the google guys buying the team to be part of the downtown commercial district

 

[Sandisfan]

Maybe best case scenario would be the google guys buying the team to be part of the downtown commercial district

I hate Google would never want them to buy the Sharks. That organization lives in it's own world being abusive, in my opinion, and generally not Great.

 

[WTFetus]

There's not really an upside to either option tbh. You can keep Timo and he can be a superstar for us, on his own. While we struggle to build something around him, which is not guaranteed as we've seen the last few years.

Or you can let him go and be a superstar somewhere else with a good supporting cast. And we can try to build something new with what we get in return for him, which is not guaranteed based on the failed rebuilds we've seen.

I think that's a fair assessment. But if we're going by which has a higher chance of success, it'd be the latter hypothetical.

 

[OrrNumber4]

RE:Meier...the Sharks almost absolutely lose the trade in the sense that the chances of them getting a player (or a pick that turns into a player like Meier) is very low. But that's still better than keeping Meier on a team that isn't going anywhere.

 

[Friday]

If Timo and EK are being shopped and looks likely to move. Why isnt Couture? He just going down with the ship? I know he doesnt have a ton of value but weird to hear nothing about him on the market. If Timo and EK are out why would any vets who want to win stick around.

 

[Gecklund]

If Timo and EK are being shopped and looks likely to move. Why isnt Couture? He just going down with the ship? I know he doesnt have a ton of value but weird to hear nothing about him on the market. If Timo and EK are out why would any vets who want to win stick around.

He probably is but he doesn’t have anywhere near the same hype as EK or Timo. I mean look at Burns. There was a bit of talk he could be on the move but VERY little. Burns had more value than Couture.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If Timo and EK are being shopped and looks likely to move. Why isnt Couture? He just going down with the ship? I know he doesnt have a ton of value but weird to hear nothing about him on the market. If Timo and EK are out why would any vets who want to win stick around.

I would guess that nobody really wants him right now for the same reason why it's been difficult to draw interest for Erik Karlsson during the season. In-season cap issues make it really difficult to trade guys with term. At the end of October, it was reported Grier was willing to listen to anyone not named Hertl so I'm sure there's at least a willingness for Grier to listen but with his term, age, and production, it's probably an offseason sort of thing if it happens. And what'll make it even more difficult is if Karlsson is dealt this offseason and is retained on, having only one retention slot makes trading the likes of Couture and Vlasic that much more difficult. Neither of them are worth their full cap hit so someone's probably staying put for a couple seasons until Burns' retention expires.