Player Discussion Juraj Slafkovsky discussion

[Nicko999]

It was a shitty draft. It is what it is.

However for me Slaf was similar to KK in that people were blinded by the size. Always happen. I predicted even before the draft he will top out as a 50 pts player which is what he turned into. Some people will say he is young and can improve but in order for that to happen you need IQ which I don't see with him. He is a useful player on a team but for a 1st overall pick, it is a disappointment. In a normal year, he is a late 1st maybe mid first at best.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Do you think Shane Wright will finish the season with more points than Slafkvosky?

It's a coin toss. Determining who was the better pick won't be done at the end of this season so not sure I get the point of bringing up Wright. He's a smaller player and seemingly management had concerns over how he'd react to this market and with how his first two seasons went after being drafted, I think it was a valid concern.

 

[CharleyHorse]

Here’s an NHL spot you didn’t earn
Here’s a top line spot you didn’t earn
Here’s a 56m USD guaranteed contract you didn’t earn

By the way, we’re expecting you to earn it!

Yes, not ideal but no different than how other top talent is managed in other teams. Do differently, and risk losing them. It sucks that it's come to that.

 

[ottawa]

Kid needs to figure it out, because having that contract in Montreal will do more harm than good.

 

[LaP]

Habs need to be more patient with their young players, let them all marinate in lower leagues until they dominate. I agree that Slaf would have been better served there as the pace is a bit slower, in the end he will still develop fine though.

Again no team does that. It doesn't exist. People need to stop with this fairy tale myth. What Montreal needs to do is be more patient with young players period even when they play in the NHL. Not all players can go from AHL / Europan pro leagues to NHL and be great day 1. There's things you have to learn at the NHL level that you can't learn in inferior leagues and it takes time. Can't learn to defend against McDavid or score against Oettinger in the AHL.

In the last 25 years among the 1st overall picks only Owen Power, Ovechkin and Erik Johnson did not play in the NHL right away. Ovy could not since there was a lockout. Power was drafted at the end of COVID so it might have payed a role. Johnson was a defensive dman.

Most good players in the NHL spend a maximum of around 100 games in the AHL. I would not call 100 games marinating. The cooking / marinating thing is a myth it exists only in the mind of some fans who doesn't fact check.

Dallas good players barely played in the AHL and right now they are probably the best team at drafting / development.

- Ropoe Hintz 91 AHL games
- Jason Robertson 60 AHL games
- Wyatt Johnson 0 AHL games
- Jamie Benn 0 regular season AHL games and 24 playoffs AHL games (given to him because dallas missed the playoffs that year)
- Harley 131 AHL games
- Heiskanen 0 AHL games and 30 liiga games after beign drafted
- Stankoven 47 AHL games
- Lindell 80 AHL games and 120 liiga games after being drafted
- Bourque 147 AHL games
- Oettinger 54 AHL games

The only 3 who marinated there are Harley, Heiskanen and Bourque. But even among those 3 Harley played 131 AHL games which is not much more than Mailloux will have at the end of the year so would we consider Mailloux is marinating yet? Good players more often the not spend less than 100 games in the AHL / Europen pro leagues after being drafted.

Here’s an NHL spot you didn’t earn
Here’s a top line spot you didn’t earn
Here’s a 56m USD guaranteed contract you didn’t earn

By the way, we’re expecting you to earn it!

Here's a first overall pick who was offered what nearly all 1st overall picks were offered in the last 25 years would be a more accurate statement.

 

[ReHabs]

It's a coin toss. Determining who was the better pick won't be done at the end of this season so not sure I get the point of bringing up Wright. He's a smaller player and seemingly management had concerns over how he'd react to this market and with how his first two seasons went after being drafted, I think it was a valid concern.

Who do you think will finish this season with more points?

Yes, not ideal but no different than how other top talent is managed in other teams. Do differently, and risk losing them. It sucks that it's come to that.

I don’t think the Habs had to rush him to the NHL (but I’m not opening the debate again — !!) so I disagree that there was. I other way to treat this player.

They gave him every opportunity and now we just have to hope and pray he doesn’t fail to impress. Nothing else can be done.

Here's a first overall pick who was offered what nearly all 1st overall picks were offered in the last 25 years would be a more accurate statement.

Shall we compare him to other 1st overalls?

 

[le_sean]

It was a shitty draft. It is what it is.

However for me Slaf was similar to KK in that people were blinded by the size. Always happen. I predicted even before the draft he will top out as a 50 pts player which is what he turned into. Some people will say he is young and can improve but in order for that to happen you need IQ which I don't see with him. He is a useful player on a team but for a 1st overall pick, it is a disappointment. In a normal year, he is a late 1st maybe mid first at best.

You’re trying to see negatives that aren’t there. I don’t know how you watch him and say he has no IQ. He has things to work on obviously, like being more agressive and shooting more, but IQ is very obviously not an issue with him. There are not a lot of wingers his size with his vision and passing ability.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Who do you think will finish this season with more points?


I don’t think the Habs had to rush him to the NHL (but I’m not opening the debate again — !!) so I disagree that there was. I other way to treat this player.

They gave him every opportunity and now we just have to hope and pray he doesn’t fail to impress. Nothing else can be done.

I literally wrote it's a coin toss.

Gun to my head I'd go with Slaf due to usage and how Wright is shooting at 20% and barely shooting right now. He's also been lucky with PP IPP.

 

[le_sean]

Do you think Shane Wright will finish the season with more points than Slafkvosky?

Who f***ing cares if he does? Shane couldn’t even put up 50 points in the AHL last season when Slaf did it in the NHL. You’re proving his point that progression isn’t linear.

I mean Shane is shooting at 20%. Very sustainable numbers. He’s basically Jake Evans this season with zero impact on the PK.

 

[Nicko999]

You’re trying to see negatives that aren’t there. I don’t know how you watch him and say he has no IQ. He has things to work on obviously, like being more agressive and shooting more, but IQ is very obviously not an issue with him. There are not a lot of wingers his size with his vision and passing ability.

No I am just being realistic. Once in a while he makes amazingly crisp and smooth passes I agree with that. He does have talent. 80% of the times, it's blind passes to nowhere that lead a turnover and a loss of possession. That is an IQ issue.

 

[le_sean]

No I am just being realistic. Once in a while he makes amazingly crisp and smooth passes I agree with that. He does have talent. 80% of the times, it's blind passes to nowhere that lead a turnover and a loss of possession. That is an IQ issue.

If 80% of the time he was sending blind passes into turnovers, he wouldn’t be playing. Stop exaggerating.

 

[LaP]

You’re trying to see negatives that aren’t there. I don’t know how you watch him and say he has no IQ. He has things to work on obviously, like being more agressive and shooting more, but IQ is very obviously not an issue with him. There are not a lot of wingers his size with his vision and passing ability.

I would say Slaf doesn't know how to play hockey more than he has no IQ. He has a good vision actually. When he has the puck he makes a good play more often than a bad play. Yesterday his pass to Suzuki on the 3 on 2 was a pretty good play. His main problem is positioning on the ice without the puck. He looks lost and often he looks like he is hesitating as to where to go when he doesn't have the puck. He's often behind the net when he should be in front. He's often in front of the net when he should be on the perimeter. Often in front of the net when he should be behind. It's even more evident on the PP. Can it be fix? Time will tell but if it can be fix it will take probably aroud 300 games to 400 games.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

No I am just being realistic. Once in a while he makes amazingly crisp and smooth passes I agree with that. He does have talent. 80% of the times, it's blind passes to nowhere that lead a turnover and a loss of possession. That is an IQ issue.

This is only a trend from the past 2-3 weeks. Let's not the pretend the Peter Laveuglette syndrome has always been a thing.

 

[le_sean]

I would say Slaf doesn't know how to play hockey more than he has no IQ. He has a good vision actually. When he has the puck he makes a good play more often than a bad play. Yesterday his pass to Suzuki on the 3 on 2 was a pretty good play. His main problem is positioning on the ice without the puck. He looks lost and often he looks like he is hesitating as to where to go when he doesn't have the puck. He's often behind the net when he should be in front. He's often in front of the net when he should be on the perimeter. Often in front of the net when he should be behind. It's even more evident on the PP. Can it be fix? Time will tell but if it can be fix it will take probably aroud 300 games to 400 games.

Yes he needs to position himself better. I do think that’s an experience and coaching issue.

Another coaching issue not helping is his role on the PP. He was far better last year on the right-side half wall, being forced to make plays. Now he’s being asked to just stand in front of the net. He never gets the puck and is never set up to take shots. I think it’s detrimental to his strengths.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Yes he needs to position himself better. I do think that’s an experience and coaching issue.

Another coaching issue not helping is his role on the PP. He was far better last year on the right-side half wall, being forced to make plays. Now he’s being asked to just stand in front of the net. He never gets the puck and is never set up to take shots. I think it’s detrimental to his strengths.

I agree this role does not suit him. This is the same issue than with Latendresse back in the day.

 

[hvac412]

At this point the regression of some of our future core is starting to be concerning,the league stats don't lie, it might be time for JG and KH to seriously consider moving on from Marty, it will derenitley be cheaper than starting all over again with different players and was in my opinion a totally wrong approach for a complete rebuild.

 

[LaP]

Yes he needs to position himself better. I do think that’s an experience and coaching issue.

Another coaching issue not helping is his role on the PP. He was far better last year on the right-side half wall, being forced to make plays. Now he’s being asked to just stand in front of the net. He never gets the puck and is never set up to take shots. I think it’s detrimental to his strengths.

Yeah but that was like AG in his 30 goals season or Laine coming back from injury. It was a small sample size where the opponent let him do what he wanted. Obviously teams were going to adjust. Now it's up to him to adjust and find the holes in the defense when he doesn't have to puck. The holes wont always be at the same place. He's no Ovy who can one time a bad pass and top corner it from his desk before the goalie bat an eye.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

At this point the regression of some of our future core is starting to be concerning,the league stats don't lie, it might be time for JG and KH to seriously consider moving on from Marty, it will derenitley be cheaper than starting all over again with different players and was in my opinion a totally wrong approach for a complete rebuild.

Who's regressing exactly?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You must see this from an age perspective more than a years perspective. Most players don't even play in the NHL in their d+3 year. Yes that NHL exp will come handy later but to be able to use it to your advantage you must be in your prime.

The prime years vary from players to players. For small players i'd say on average it's earlier because they'll never be strong and rely on speed so their prime is often in the low 20ies. For big players who rely on strength their prime is usually from the mid 20ies to 30. Higher IQ players tend to have very long prime (Ovy, Crosby) since they don't rely on neither speed or strength.

It's impossible to know if Slaf will develop to its full potential but him looking meh at 20 doesn't mean much. If he still look meh at 22 it will be time to start worrying.

The Canadiens were pretty upfront about saying that they wanted the player who’d be best in the long term. After last season our expectations were expectedly high for him and this year’s been a disappointment from that perspective. Long term view though, not much has changed. It’s not uncommon for some players to take longer than others. Usually you see a bit of a breakout around 22-23 years old. By then we’ll know what kind of player he’s really going to be.

And I’ll repeat this again, him panning out is now far less important to us than it was because we landed the best player in that draft sixty one picks later. Even if Slaf is underwhelming and the 4th or 5th best in that draft it’s still a great draft for us, especially considering the other players we landed in that draft.

I still feel good about taking him there. Still think we need his size and he can be a really special player for us.

 

[LaP]

The Canadiens were pretty upfront about saying that they wanted the player who’d be best in the long term. After last season our expectations were expectedly high for him and this year’s been a disappointment from that perspective. Long term view though, not much has changed. It’s not uncommon for some players to take longer than others. Usually you see a bit of a breakout around 22-23 years old. By then we’ll know what kind of player he’s really going to be.

And I’ll repeat this again, him panning out is now far less important to us than it was because we landed the best player in that draft sixty one picks later. Even if Slaf is underwhelming and the 4th or 5th best in that draft it’s still a great draft for us, especially considering the other players we landed in that draft.

I still feel good about taking him there. Still think we need his size and he can be a really special player for us.

Mine were not. I'm an old fart i've been there and i've done that. I know better not to think developement is linear. I said at the beginning of the year that if he could be where he was last year so between 45 and 50 points that it would be for me a positive thing. Next year i'll raise my expectation a bit. At 21 we should start to see some progress in his game. I'm not necessarily expecting 60 points next year but more consistency in his play leading to a 55ish point pace.

 

[waitin425]

It was a shitty draft. It is what it is.

However for me Slaf was similar to KK in that people were blinded by the size. Always happen. I predicted even before the draft he will top out as a 50 pts player which is what he turned into.

Turned into? It's conclusive? He doesn't have a higher ceiling than 50 pts? Which leads to the next point below....

In a normal year, he is a late 1st maybe mid first at best.

Not a whole shit ton of late 1st round picks or mid 1st round picks for that matter are playing in their D+3 year on pace for 50 or so points and have a 50 point season in their pocket.

Many players in their D+3 year are in fact not in the NHL yet. But since you stipulated a weak draft...let's look at a mid 1st pick in a strong year.

Cole Caufield.

43 points in 67 games = 52 points over 82 games kind of similar to Juraj.

Let's be a little patient with him.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

Some people here will eat crow in a few years, this thread is depressing, not only for most its content, but mostly for the lack of patience and insight. The guy is 20 yo ffs!!!

Edit: Even Hughes, who’s been around developing players his whole career as an agent and coach said he wouldn’t be surprised to see a bit of regression from Slaf this year. He said that at the end of last season!

 

[hvac412]

Who's regressing exactly?

,our second line is just about bottom of the league, our first line has been shit during this losing streak our fourth line which aside from Heinemen are not part of our future but at the top of the league and were right back to playing unwatchable headless chicken hockey after three years,i guess if you want to keep going in circles for the next 3-4 years it's all good ,nothing to see here.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

,our second line is just about bottom of the league, our first line has been shit during this losing streak our fourth line which aside from Heinemen are not part of our future but at the top of the league and were right back to playing unwatchable headless chicken hockey after three years,i guess if you want to keep going in circles for the next 3-4 years it's all good ,nothing to see here.

So you're saying Suzuki and Caufield have regressed? Gotcha.

Laine is injured and an.anchor right now. I agree Dach and Newhook are underperforming. Slaf too. But let's not say EVERYONE has regressed.

 

[Nicko999]

Turned into? It's conclusive? He doesn't have a higher ceiling than 50 pts? Which leads to the next point below....


Not a whole shit ton of late 1st round picks or mid 1st round picks for that matter are playing in their D+3 year on pace for 50 or so points and have a 50 point season in their pocket.

Many players in their D+3 year are in fact not in the NHL yet. But since you stipulated a weak draft...let's look at a mid 1st pick in a strong year.

Cole Caufield.

43 points in 67 games = 52 points over 82 games kind of similar to Juraj.

Let's be a little patient with him.

I do not think he has a higher ceiling, no. Slaf has not shown an ability to produce at any level really. Maybe he can have a career year over 60 pts but I believe 50 pts would be the norm for him.


Not sure why you put Caufield as a comparison. Completely different style players.