2022/23 Roster Thread XX: Heading into the Homestretch

[VladDrag]

This conversation is so disingenuous and filled with intentional lack of context.

That is why I'm not having it.

 

[freakydallas13]

Of course we did.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

 

[mize370]

with Atkinson, Konecny returning the time to trade tippett is now!! Dont need a 3rd line right winger. Desnoyers can do that.
We all know the fossil coach will have some GLUE guy on the 4th line

 

[freakydallas13]

That is why I'm not having it.

I need to take after your example more.

 

[kudymen]

with Atkinson, Konecny returning the time to trade tippett is now!! Dont need a 3rd line right winger. Desnoyers can do that.
We all know the fossil coach will have some GLUE guy on the 4th line

They will trade Konecny and buyout Atkinson instead. Oh wait I just described a team that kept Chuck Fletcher

 

[Starat327]

That is why I'm not having it.

Whatever. He doesn't respect you anyway.

 

[VladDrag]

I need to take after your example more.

I do the same at times, but it's usually when I'm bored.

There's nothing you can say that will change his mind, he thinks he's right. Fine, good for you dude. Who gives a shit.

Edit - that, fine, good for you dude was not meant for you.

 

[Young Sandwich]

There's nothing you can say that will change his mind, he thinks he's right. Fine, good for you dude. Who gives a shit.

 

[deadhead]

Trading TK makes more sense than trading Tippett, he has maximum value with two years left on his contract. You'd have to give him a big money extension at 28 (8 years takes you to 35), which doesn't make sense for a rebuilding team.

He is what he is, a 30 goal, mid-first line scorer who'll always struggle defensively and is mistake prone.
Some teams value that more than others, so find someone who'll buy high.

Tippett is a 2RW by any measure, at least off this season.
The fact that he plays as well without Frost as with him tells you he's not a product of having the right center.
1.82 pp/60, 122nd among 249 forwards with 800 5x5 minutes. Median 2nd line is #138.
Sh% 8.98 which should improve.
xGFrel +2.95 (62nd among forwards).

I don't think Tippett has 1st line talent, but I think he can incrementally improve, and has this season, His upside is upper echelon 2RW.
Foerster and Brink can replace TK, Foerster isn't as explosive but has better vision and a better shot.
And Atkinson can provide a bridge while they grow up.

If you're serious about a rebuild, TK is the obvious trade bait.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

You couldn't pay me to talk about the actual topic, but again, the 42% vs <25% Cates offense thing is two entirely different measurements. Both are correct in their own way.

42%: 3 year weighted average
<25%: 2022-23

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

You couldn't pay me to talk about the actual topic, but again, the 42% vs <25% Cates offense thing is two entirely different measurements. Both are correct in their own way.

42%: 3 year weighted average
<25%: 2022-23

I'm not paying you but the original conversation was that Cates is a Selke candidate because he is getting 1st line minutes. He didn't get first line minutes outside of this year so the 3 year weighted average has to get tossed so we could only look at 22-23.

Don't shoot me.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'm not paying you but the original conversation was that Cates is a Selke candidate because he is getting 1st line minutes. He didn't get first line minutes outside of this year so the 3 year weighted average has to get tossed so we could only look at 22-23.

Don't shoot me.

 

[deadhead]

The silly thing is people for some reason want to trash Cates for not being Frost.

Apples and oranges, both are key players going forward, top teams need both offensive centers and elite defensive players.

I think people want to trash Tippett b/c CF traded for him. The guy has limitations, but he's scored 26 goals his first season as a full-time starter, and has the 2nd best xGFrel among all Flyer forwards (JVR is 1st, but in a much more sheltered role). He plays hard, makes things happen with his size and speed, back checks consistently, and showed improvement all season. What's not to like?

Yes, Frost might have scored slightly more with TK instead of Tippett, but he'd have also been on the ice for more goals against. So what's the point? Only scoring matters? Defense doesn't help to win games?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Trading TK makes more sense than trading Tippett, he has maximum value with two years left on his contract. You'd have to give him a big money extension at 28 (8 years takes you to 35), which doesn't make sense for a rebuilding team.

He is what he is, a 30 goal, mid-first line scorer who'll always struggle defensively and is mistake prone.
Some teams value that more than others, so find someone who'll buy high.

Tippett is a 2RW by any measure, at least off this season.
The fact that he plays as well without Frost as with him tells you he's not a product of having the right center.
1.82 pp/60, 122nd among 249 forwards with 800 5x5 minutes. Median 2nd line is #138.
Sh% 8.98 which should improve.
xGFrel +2.95 (62nd among forwards).

I don't think Tippett has 1st line talent, but I think he can incrementally improve, and has this season, His upside is upper echelon 2RW.
Foerster and Brink can replace TK, Foerster isn't as explosive but has better vision and a better shot.
And Atkinson can provide a bridge while they grow up.

If you're serious about a rebuild, TK is the obvious trade bait.

This is insane galaxy brain stuff

 

[Beef Invictus]

You couldn't pay me to talk about the actual topic, but again, the 42% vs <25% Cates offense thing is two entirely different measurements. Both are correct in their own way.

42%: 3 year weighted average
<25%: 2022-23

This was explained yesterday. He knows it, he's intentionally lying.

That it takes this much lying to defend the team just shows how awfully the team is run from top to bottom. At least when DFF energetically defended Holmgren he didn't have to lie to do it.

Defending Flyers management and coaching requires lying. There's no other way to do it. It's impossible. It can only be done be debasing yourself and wrecking your credibility.

 

[kudymen]

The silly thing is people for some reason want to trash Cates for not being Frost.

The silly thing is you choose to read it that way so you can argue with it.

 

[deadhead]

The silly thing is you choose to read it that way so you can argue with it.

No, it's been a theme for months around here.

Torts is playing Cates over Frost (except the last few months Frost has more 5x5 time than Cates)!

Torts is sticking Frost with 2nd rate forwards (except JVR has outscored Farabee until the last couple weeks), and Frost plays as well with Tippett as with TK!

Or maybe Torts has shuffled lines for most of the season, except for a couple months after Cates moved to center, b/c he wants to see who potentially fits with whom for next season.

Some people here get woodies for offense, and don't even think defense matters.

 

[Curufinwe]

The silly thing is people for some reason want to trash Cates for not being Frost.

That's funny considering in November you were trashing Frost for not scoring while playing with Deslauriers and MacEwen while giving Cates a free pass for not scoring playing with good wingers.

 

[FlyerNutter]

John Tortorella already has way too much power in this organization.

It's going to become more, and more of a problem.

 

[Beef Invictus]

 

[Beef Invictus]

John Tortorella already has way too much power in this organization.

It's going to become more, and more of a problem.

Rookie GM with the bare minimum of experience getting hounded by an over-empowered coach and advisors whose egos will not let them stay quiet. Having to rely on Flahr and a horde of scouts and development guys who suck ass, but who he probably isn't allowed to clear out. Assuming in that case that he even realizes they need clearing out; again, he barely has any experience and probably doesn't know any better.

Even if Briere does have the ability to be a good GM, it isn't going to happen in this environment.

 

[Curufinwe]

Frost gets a few more minutes with TK and Tippett, the team's two best goal scorers.

TK is a much better player than OT. Almost half a goal per hour better at ES.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Rookie GM with the bare minimum of experience getting hounded by an over-empowered coach and advisors whose egos will not let them stay quiet. Having to rely on Flahr and a horde of scouts and development guys who suck ass, but who he probably isn't allowed to clear out. Assuming in that case that he even realizes they need clearing out; again, he barely has any experience and probably doesn't know any better.

It's going to be an issue with roster makeup.

Tortorella isn't going to allow them to move someone like TK.

I don't think he gets involved in the draft, but this isn't a coach who is going to stay in his lane. It's not that I am defending Briere - but we don't know he's a complete idiot yet. We do know all Torts cares about is developing effort, and bringing the game back to how it used to be.

I do miss parts of the old NHL, the game today is a bit vanilla for me - but you need to go with the times.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's going to be an issue with roster makeup.

Tortorella isn't going to allow them to move someone like TK.

I don't think he gets involved in the draft, but this isn't a coach who is going to stay in his lane. It's not that I am defending Briere - but we don't know he's a complete idiot yet. We do know all Torts cares about is developing effort, and bringing the game back to how it used to be.

I do miss parts of the old NHL, the game today is a bit vanilla for me - but you need to go with the times.

Tortorella has already said he wants more grinders. That's what he'll be thumping for if Briere tries to get him what he wants. It's gonna suck.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Tortorella has already said he wants more grinders. That's what he'll be thumping for if Briere tries to get him what he wants. It's gonna suck.

See I don't actually care about that aspect. The NHL lineup for the foreseeable future to me is irrelevant. Nothing matters, as long as they don't put themselves in a spot to draft actual elite level talent. Nothing matters until that is in place, sure as shit not Farabee, York, Frost, or Cates, or Tippet.

What they need to have is a fire sale to accumulate draft assets, and more importantly more favourable draft positioning. That means moving Konecny, along with others. I think Torts is going to strongly oppose such an approach. He's not going to sit quietly should they want to move Laughton as well.

He's going to force his GM to cater to his wishes, because right now he does have carte blanche in this organization. Hayes, and TDA have already had any trade value nuked - but he's going to want them off the team no questions asked. Hayes is the perfect tank commander for the next x amount of years. TDA is a guy a team could sell off at the next deadline, and try to work with the player until then.