2022/23 Roster Thread XX: Heading into the Homestretch

[DancingPanther]

Just so everybody is on the same game the game against Chicago is now our super bowl. The draft position can't change with either a win or loss, but if they win then we can rag on @DancingPanther all summer when they end up with exactly a mid-70s amount of points.

Rag on me all you want, you can't deny this organization deserves 55 points max. For the rest of the decade. f*** all these dummies. I was trying to will it into existence. I also didn't think TK and Hart were going to f*** it all up

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Rag on me all you want, you can't deny this organization deserves 55 points max. For the rest of the decade. f*** all these dummies. I was trying to will it into existence. I also didn't think TK and Hart were going to f*** it all up

Oh yeah, they definitely deserve to be bottom feeder garbage.

 

[Curufinwe]

We are blessed to watch Provorov go omnonnom on all the minutes. What a player. What a season.

Look at all the minutes Provorov is guzzling!

 

[VladDrag]

When you constantly make things up that nobody is saying it harms your credibility.

The 'issue' with Cates has never been about Cates himself. It's been primarily about his usage. He was put with TK and Farabee forever, despite not showing any consistent offensive ability. Most of his points came from riding TK's coattails.

Again, this isn't a knock on Cates, he's been a great defensive player, but he never deserved the linemates he got.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Still amazed they voted Provy again. Couldn’t even get creative with a Risto or Seeler vote. Literally gave it to a guy that did not lead his (bad) team in any notable category other than minutes. And was on the ice for the most goals against. So much for the DEFENSEman crowd.

 

[Starat327]

Still amazed they voted Provy again. Couldn’t even get creative with a Risto or Seeler vote. Literally gave it to a guy that did not lead his (bad) team in any notable category other than minutes.

What are you talking about. Led the team in freedoms.

 

[TCTC]

The 'issue' with Cates has never been about Cates himself. It's been primarily about his usage. He was put with TK and Farabee forever, despite not showing any consistent offensive ability. Most of his points came from riding TK's coattails.

Again, this isn't a knock on Cates, he's been a great defensive player, but he never deserved the linemates he got.

Hard to tell the difference sometimes. I clearly remember people on here making fun of him when he had his scoring drought at the start of the season.

 

[deadhead]

The 'issue' with Cates has never been about Cates himself. It's been primarily about his usage. He was put with TK and Farabee forever, despite not showing any consistent offensive ability. Most of his points came from riding TK's coattails.

Again, this isn't a knock on Cates, he's been a great defensive player, but he never deserved the linemates he got.

ES, Cates with TK, GF 18, Cates w/o TK, GF 28.
xGF% with TK 45.48%, xGF w/o TK, 49.34%

The myth that Cates got better linemates than Frost is just that, a myth.

Cates' linemates (ES):
TK 408
Farabee 393
Tippett 246
Laughton 245
Hayes 207
Allison 183
MacEwen 166
JVR 104
Deslauriers 86

Frosts' linemates (ES)
Tippett 550
JVR 404
Farabee 327
TK 156
Allison 112
Laughton 95
MacEwen 89
Hayes 84
Deslauriers 82

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

ES, Cates with TK, GF 18, Cates w/o TK, GF 28.
xGF% with TK 45.48%, xGF w/o TK, 49.34%

The myth that Cates got better linemates than Frost is just that, a myth.

Cates' linemates (ES):
TK 408
Farabee 393
Tippett 246
Laughton 245
Hayes 207
Allison 183
MacEwen 166
JVR 104
Deslauriers 86

Frosts' linemates (ES)
Tippett 550
JVR 404
Farabee 327
TK 156
Allison 112
Laughton 95
MacEwen 89
Hayes 84
Deslauriers 82

Thank you for showing us that Cates had better linemates than Frost.

 

[deadhead]

Thank you for showing us that Cates had better linemates than Frost.

Only in your fantasy world. An objective observer would see it as a wash.

Frost gets a few more minutes with TK and Tippett, the team's two best goal scorers.
Frost gets JVR/Hayes, Cates gets Laughton/Hayes for about the same minutes
Farabee is almost even
Cates gets 140 more minutes with MacEwen, Allison and Deslauriers, none of whom can score. Frost gets Laughton for those minutes.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Only in your fantasy world. An objective observer would see it as a wash.

Frost gets a few more minutes with TK and Tippett, the team's two best goal scorers.
Frost gets JVR/Hayes, Cates gets Laughton/Hayes for about the same minutes
Farabee is almost even
Cates gets 140 more minutes with MacEwen, Allison and Deslauriers, none of whom can score. Frost gets Laughton for those minutes.

Wait. You said Frost got a few more minutes with TK? In what universe (not the one I'm in) is 156 "a few more" than 408?

 

[VladDrag]

ES, Cates with TK, GF 18, Cates w/o TK, GF 28.
xGF% with TK 45.48%, xGF w/o TK, 49.34%

The myth that Cates got better linemates than Frost is just that, a myth.

Cates' linemates (ES):
TK 408
Farabee 393
Tippett 246
Laughton 245
Hayes 207
Allison 183
MacEwen 166
JVR 104
Deslauriers 86

Frosts' linemates (ES)
Tippett 550
JVR 404
Farabee 327
TK 156
Allison 112
Laughton 95
MacEwen 89
Hayes 84
Deslauriers 82

If you can't agree that playing 250 more minutes with TK and 66 more minutes with Farabee is having better linemates, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[freakydallas13]

Imagine playing most of the season with TK and still being in the bottom quarter of the leauge in offence.

But sure, keep pushing the narrative that this board hates Cates, not that his offensive production is quite poor.

 

[deadhead]

If you can't agree that playing 250 more minutes with TK and 66 more minutes with Farabee is having better linemates, I don't know what to tell you.

And playing 140 minutes with 4th line guys is having worse linemates.
When you look at all the players they played with, it evens out.
Cates also carried mistake prone TK as much as TK carried him.
Just look at his xGF% with and without TK.

Closer look (5x5) - was TK really better than Tippett 5x5?

Frost w Tippett - GF/60: 3.09, GA/60: 3.43, xGF/60: 2.48, xGF/60: 2.64
Frost w/o Tippett - GF/60: 2.03, GA/60: 2.03, xGF/60: 2.27, xGF/60: 2.52
Tippett w/o Frost - GF/60: 2.72, GA/60: 3.09, xGF/60: 2.94, xGF/60: 2.73

Cates w TK - GF/60: 2.46, GA/60: 2.31, xGF/60: 2.43, xGA/60: 2.72
Cates w/o TK - GF/60: 2.18, GA/60: 2.01, xGF/60: 2.27, xGA/60: 2.40
TK w/o Cates - GF/60: 2.56, GA/60: 3.64, xGF/60: 2.85, xGA/60: 3.31

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

This conversation is so disingenuous and filled with intentional lack of context.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Considering the claims about his background with stats, he knows he's being dishonest. He's intentionally lying.

Nothing says "My stance is good" like needing to lie to support it.

 

[freakydallas13]

"Cates carried TK! He's actually amazing at offence! Stop laughing!"

Take a lap, bro.

 

[deadhead]

Imagine playing most of the season with TK and still being in the bottom quarter of the leauge in offence.

But sure, keep pushing the narrative that this board hates Cates, not that his offensive production is quite poor.

Except you're wrong on both accounts:

Cates had 389 minutes 5x5 with TK, 688 without him, so that's only 36% of his 5x5 minutes.
So he "didn't play most of the season with TK."

Cates was not in the bottom quarter, JFresh had him at 42% at ES.
Since he moved to center (Dec 7), Cates was #179 of 291 forwards in 5x5 scoring, or around 38%.
Frost was #48, 84% - both players stepped up with a regular role as a top 6 center.

"Cates carried TK! He's actually amazing at offence! Stop laughing!"

Take a lap, bro.

No, Cates CYA for TK's mistakes.
TK without Cates was better offensively, but much worse defensively.

 

[freakydallas13]

Except you're wrong on both accounts:

Cates had 389 minutes 5x5 with TK, 688 without him, so that's only 36% of his 5x5 minutes.
So he "didn't play most of the season with TK."

Cates was not in the bottom quarter, JFresh had him at 42% at ES.
Since he moved to center (Dec 7), Cates was #179 of 291 forwards in 5x5 scoring, or around 38%.
Frost was #48, 84% - both players stepped up with a regular role as a top 6 center.


No, Cates CYA for TK's mistakes.
TK without Cates was better offensively, but much worse defensively.

Which center played with TK more, pray tell?

 

[deadhead]

Which center played with TK more, pray tell?

Why did Tippett outplay TK without Frost?

 

[freakydallas13]

Why did Tippett outplay TK without Frost?

I'm sorry, did we change subjects? Which center played more with TK?

 

[Starat327]

This conversation is so disingenuous and filled with intentional lack of context.

How is that different than any other one they attempt to have?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I'm sorry, did we change subjects? Which center played more with TK?

Of course we did.

 

[Starat327]

Considering the claims about his background with stats, he knows he's being dishonest. He's intentionally lying.

Nothing says "My stance is good" like needing to lie to support it.

There's a word for this. And I believe it's against the site rules, to be honest.

 

[WIP CALLER]

And playing 140 minutes with 4th line guys is having worse linemates.
When you look at all the players they played with, it evens out.
Cates also carried mistake prone TK as much as TK carried him.
Just look at his xGF% with and without TK.

Closer look (5x5) - was TK really better than Tippett 5x5?

Frost w Tippett - GF/60: 3.09, GA/60: 3.43, xGF/60: 2.48, xGF/60: 2.64
Frost w/o Tippett - GF/60: 2.03, GA/60: 2.03, xGF/60: 2.27, xGF/60: 2.52
Tippett w/o Frost - GF/60: 2.72, GA/60: 3.09, xGF/60: 2.94, xGF/60: 2.73

Cates w TK - GF/60: 2.46, GA/60: 2.31, xGF/60: 2.43, xGA/60: 2.72
Cates w/o TK - GF/60: 2.18, GA/60: 2.01, xGF/60: 2.27, xGA/60: 2.40
TK w/o Cates - GF/60: 2.56, GA/60: 3.64, xGF/60: 2.85, xGA/60: 3.31

Minds are wired differently, I had no problem with Differential Calculus or Set Theory (first chapter of Debreu's The Theory of Value), but I've always struggled with statistics.