2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

[captainpaxil]

So do you see the Flyers retaining 50% on Hayes summer of 2023 then another 50% for Risto summer of 2024? The top 2 prize acquisitions. Not a f***ing chance.

Also imo this buying out of Hayes is media /fan driven IMO. Cant see them going that route at this time. Remember they are rebuilding so why hand cuff your team years down the line.

Also on Ivan and Laughton. You don't ever account for the fact the GM and coach love them both. They are seen as part of the solution.

Or they re-sign Tony D.

Here is a scenario for you. Lets say the coach tells the GM he really like what JVR brings to the table. Both on the ice and locker room. See if he wants to re-sign for a year or 2. Would you support that move?


If they had a creative GM they could move hi by the deadline with 50% retention. Several teams would surely be interested. Enough where you will actually got something back useful in either a pick or prospect.

Best case scenario is you get a return on investment for tony d. Unless he blows my mind he's moving
With jvr I'm pretty sure he lives in Jersey. I would be completely ok with him coming back on a series of one year deals to be repeatedly dealt at the deadline.
Provorov has big value but he's not immovable whereas I think laughton especially in the absence of cooter has more value to us than around the league. With him and tk you have to retain some talent

I'd be open to moving Hayes retained I think there's value for a 2/3c at 3.6 on a multi-year deal. I wouldn't buy him out and definitely wouldn't pay to move him.

I miss hextall and his shrewdness in shedding players. I'd have a lot more confidence in getting things done if he were the gm.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

No. He's a liar.

Never forget.

what a f***ing horrible hottake that one was..

LOL

Is he f***ing serious?

this is why the Flyers Org. deserves everything its earned..

#mindnumbing

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Is he f***ing serious?

I’m gonna be honest here… I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.

That’s EXACTLY what the organization’s thought process was about Ghost.

 

[KaraLupin]

Listened to ASF on Myrterus’ or whatever’s podcast. He still thinks Hayes is gone one or way another before next year whether it’s a trade or buyout. He said Tortorella doesn’t want Hayes on his team & Hayes doesn’t want to play for Tortorella. He made it seem like Tortorella thinks Hayes is a bad influence on the younger players on this team & the “culture” he’s trying to establish going forward. So he doesn’t really a path for Hayes back next even if it’s a buyout.

This media hype about Torts' reputation. There is always one top 6er on the teams he coaches that is trash at following his system and he focuses more on them to try to help them get the picture. Eventually they get to be passeable enough at it and they get out of the doghouse. He is absolutely not a coach that will want to cast off players with some value to the team just because they are struggling to buy in. Other coaches work these players more passively, but it can be argued which approach works better.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

 

[Beef Invictus]

My least favorite 'hockey guy' notion is the idea that a pairing needs at least one physical grinder. One who only grinds. They "stay-at-home" guy whose at-home skillset ensures he must, in fact, stay home far too much.

Controlling and moving the puck out of the zone is vastly more effective at preventing goals than endless grinding while you hope your partner or a forward or a goalie bails you out.

 

[Magua]

My least favorite 'hockey guy' notion is the idea that a pairing needs at least one physical grinder. One who only grinds.

Controlling and moving the puck out of the zone is vastly more effective at preventing goals than endless grinding while you hope your partner or a forward bails you out.

Would you call yourself the physical grinder on an HF Flyers admin pairing? You offer to fight many things.

 

[Striiker]

I’m gonna be honest here… I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.

That’s EXACTLY what the organization’s thought process was about Ghost.

1) Risto is bad defensively. TDA is bad defensively. Ghost is not bad defensively.

He's average overall. Very good at some things (defending zone entries, getting into passing lanes, puck moving, etc), not so great at others (physical strength-related stuff mostly).

So comparing him to TDA and saying both are bad, just in different ways, is already wrong.

2) This is not an accurate description:

Ghost's problem was this: (...) He was "soft," he'd shy away from contact sometimes, weak at netfront.

He's not saying "That's what the team mistakenly thought of Ghost".

He's saying "This is what's wrong with Ghost and that makes them mad".

If he had said "Ghost's problem was this: he wasn't big or strong enough to outmuscle people and in their eyes that was a dealbreaker", then that's different. Those are actual flaws. Being soft and avoiding contact is an imaginary flaw.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Would you call yourself the physical grinder on an HF Flyers admin pairing? You offer to fight many things.

A meat grinder

 

[Striiker]

Eats minutes has got to be the worst one. I promise you I can exist for 24 Minutes on demand. Please give me the Gudbranson deal.

Yeah, definitely one of the worst.

Talking about how hard a player tries and their level of effort/compete is probably the one that drives me the most insane.

"It doesn't matter if he has bad puck skills, can't skate well, isn't too smart... at least he competes and never takes a shift off!"

No. That doesn't matter. That effort is worthless. You could find some random, 50 year old, borderline-obese, beer leaguer who will try so hard he'll almost die out there if you give him a chance. Does that mean it'd be acceptable to sign him and use him? With the argument these hockey guys make, you'd think so.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Would you call yourself the physical grinder on an HF Flyers admin pairing? You offer to fight many things.

Beef is definitely a minutes/inning eater.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Would you call yourself the physical grinder on an HF Flyers admin pairing? You offer to fight many things.

If I were a degenerate like @Beef Invictus , I'd bet he's a "shoot first" kinda guy. From literally anywhere on the ice.

 

[Magua]

Beef is definitely a minutes/inning eater.

Minutes beverage drinker.

 

[Striiker]

Beef is definitely a minutes/inning eater.

Yeah, he'll eat minutes or even whole hours arguing with brick walls. Nobody munches on time like that.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Yeah, he'll eat minutes or even whole hours arguing with brick walls. Nobody munches on time like that.

 

[deadhead]

Ghost was bad defensively, b/c he missed that year of the AHL when he blew out his knee, he never adjusted from being a rover in college. As long as he could outskate his mistakes, it could be ignored, but when injuries took away his burst, his turnovers consistently lead to odd man rushes where he was outskated.

TDA is more skilled than Ghost, but really undisciplined, he tries to do too much on defense and consistently takes himself out of position. Offensively, he's elite, as we've seen (7 points in 3 games), but he's his own worst enemy. He's feisty, doesn't shy from contact, but won't play a simple game on defense and just focus on not making mistakes.

I think Torts sees this as a lost season, right now he's trying to salvage Provorov, TDA and Risto for different reasons.
Provorov b/c he should be a 1st pair D-man, at some point Torts will throw up his hands and he'll be dealt.
TDA b/c he has Makar type skills, if he could just play adequate defense (not good, just not terrible), he's be a 1st pair guy.
Risto, b/c Torts is stuck with his contract, to move him in a year they need to make him a respectable D-man, not good, just not bad.

Rebuilding is not just about playing prospects, it's also about identifying which veterans are worth keeping.

Hayes could be tolerated with his defensive shortcomings if he bought in, but he simply won't try to do what's required, compare to JVR. But he's on a 40-50 point ES, 60+ point pace, if he keeps that up, someone will bite this summer, scorers aren't that easy to find.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I’m gonna be honest here… I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.

That’s EXACTLY what the organization’s thought process was about Ghost.

thats the whole point.. the Org. from top to bottom just thinks hockey like its 50 years ago

 

[pit]

Nothing defines elite offensively like a 3 game sample size.

I've seen all I need to here. Pack up the tents and let's go home.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If I were a degenerate like @Beef Invictus , I'd bet he's a "shoot first" kinda guy. From literally anywhere on the ice.

The Gudas archetype

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ghost was bad defensively, b/c he missed that year of the AHL when he blew out his knee, he never adjusted from being a rover in college. As long as he could outskate his mistakes, it could be ignored, but when injuries took away his burst, his turnovers consistently lead to odd man rushes where he was outskated.

TDA is more skilled than Ghost, but really undisciplined, he tries to do too much on defense and consistently takes himself out of position. Offensively, he's elite, as we've seen (7 points in 3 games), but he's his own worst enemy. He's feisty, doesn't shy from contact, but won't play a simple game on defense and just focus on not making mistakes.

I think Torts sees this as a lost season, right now he's trying to salvage Provorov, TDA and Risto for different reasons.
Provorov b/c he should be a 1st pair D-man, at some point Torts will throw up his hands and he'll be dealt.
TDA b/c he has Makar type skills, if he could just play adequate defense (not good, just not terrible), he's be a 1st pair guy.
Risto, b/c Torts is stuck with his contract, to move him in a year they need to make him a respectable D-man, not good, just not bad.

Rebuilding is not just about playing prospects, it's also about identifying which veterans are worth keeping.

Hayes could be tolerated with his defensive shortcomings if he bought in, but he simply won't try to do what's required, compare to JVR. But he's on a 40-50 point ES, 60+ point pace, if he keeps that up, someone will bite this summer, scorers aren't that easy to find.

He wasn't bad defensively though.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Be thankful. The funniest part isn't even you saying he seems pricey. He certainly is. The best part is what @Curufinwe mentioned. This dude actually has a NTC

The moron was bidding against himself.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

The Gudas archetype

i was thinkiin Matt Carle muffins..

 

[deadhead]

TDA pp/60 in his three full seasons: 1.09, 1.74, 1.50.
xGF/60: 2.57, 2.68, 3.27.

Ghost, 4 full seasons in PhL: 1.20, 0.49, 1.06, 0.91, 2 seasons in Zona, 1.35, 1.16
xGF/60: 2.30, 2.42, 2.28, 2.30, Zona: 2.25, 2.24.

 

[FLYguy3911]

My least favorite 'hockey guy' notion is the idea that a pairing needs at least one physical grinder. One who only grinds. They "stay-at-home" guy whose at-home skillset ensures he must, in fact, stay home far too much.

Controlling and moving the puck out of the zone is vastly more effective at preventing goals than endless grinding while you hope your partner or a forward or a goalie bails you out.

That and skill guys play better with other skill guys. You wouldn’t play your most skilled center with your least skilled wingers. I mean the Flyers might but they are where they are.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That and skill guys play better with other skill guys. You wouldn’t play your most skilled center with your least skilled wingers. I mean the Flyers might but they are where they are.

I'm flashing back to the prior regime and the current regime both deciding the best thing would be the "grinder" playing in front of the net while the "skilled guy" wheeled around both sides. All it did was basically make them short handed by design. Not that it made much difference.

(Ghost/Hagg and Sanheim/Risto)