2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

[Beef Invictus]

They have not been in nearly every game. They've spent the year minus the last 6 games getting blown to pieces with Hart keeping them in it.

 

[Striiker]

They have not been in nearly every game. They've spent the year minus the last 6 games getting blown to pieces with Hart keeping them in it.

They’ve been beat by 3+ goals in 12 games

 

[Starat327]

They’ve been beat by 3+ goals in 12 games

I mean, that's IN the game

 

[prototypical4thliner]

I mean, that's IN the game

I truly, and to my core, hate that we can rationalize that statement. God dammit.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Don't count on it, I was told Frost was a star in the making now that he has real wingers.

Middle. Six. Center.

All we are hoping for at this point given his optimal development curve.

 

[Striiker]

So are we ready to say Frost is better than Patrick?

So that means Frost > Patrick > Tavares?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

So are we ready to say Frost is better than Patrick?

So that means Frost > Patrick > Tavares?

Don’t forget Barzal.

 

[Striiker]

Don’t forget Barzal.

Hmmm… can’t say I agree but whoever said that clearly thinks he’s a star.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

The contract is paid, but TV viewership is used to calculate the value of advertising. Boycotting the televised games matters, as local companies won't advertise on Philly stations if there are no viewers, and the next TV contract won't be as big either. The Flyers don't care about winning, only money, so it's the only way to hurt them. No merch. No CenterIce. No watching on cable.

Fair enough, however I find it beyond unlikely a few hundred/thousands at most diehards not flipping the game on is going to do anything, and preaching to people not to turn the game on as a way to effect change far fetched

 

[BringBackHakstol]

How Do Television Ratings Work?

A show that has several million viewers may seem popular to us, but a network may need millions more watching that program to make it a financial success. How do they figure out how many people are watching a show?

entertainment.howstuffworks.com

I'm not part of the Nielsen ratings sample.

And yes, thank you for pointing this out. If you aren't a Nielson house, your view isn't counted anyway. And If you watch it illegally and are a Nielson house, your view is still counted

 

[deadhead]

^ you don’t win shit without elite talent through the draft.

As long as that’s ignored, this will be a waste of our time.

Tell it to Carolina.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Tell it to Carolina.

lol this team isn’t a fart in a windstorm compared to Carolina

 

[GapToothedWonder]

And yes, thank you for pointing this out. If you aren't a Nielson house, your view isn't counted anyway. And If you watch it illegally and are a Nielson house, your view is still counted

If by illegally you mean I find some random stream on the internet how could they possibly know that to count it towards ratings?

 

[deadhead]

lol this team isn’t a fart in a windstorm compared to Carolina

Guess you forget Carolina before Brind'Amour?

Carolina has one high draft pick, Svechnikov (#2). Necas (#12), Jarvis (#13), that's it.
Aho (#35), picked up Martinhook and Noesen and Burns.
They've made their share of mistakes, Kotkaniemi is grossly overpaid (8yr/$4.25M), as is Staal.
They accumulated a bunch of draft picks, but outside the 1st rd, the only one in the NHL is #36, Kochetkov G.
They let Geekie go in the ED.

So what's their answer? Good coaching, I think Brind"Amour, like Torts, is one of the few coaches that can raise the talent level of players. A lot of coaches can engineer 1-2 year bounces before they're tuned out, but only a few can take a mediocre roster and turn it into a good team.

 

[Magua]

Guess you forget Carolina before Brind'Amour?

Carolina has one high draft pick, Svechnikov (#2). Necas (#12), Jarvis (#13), that's it.
Aho (#35), picked up Martinhook and Noesen and Burns.
They've made their share of mistakes, Kotkaniemi is grossly overpaid (8yr/$4.25M), as is Staal.
They accumulated a bunch of draft picks, but outside the 1st rd, the only one in the NHL is #36, Kochetkov G.
They let Geekie go in the ED.

So what's their answer? Good coaching, I think Brind"Amour, like Torts, is one of the few coaches that can raise the talent level of players. A lot of coaches can engineer 1-2 year bounces before they're tuned out, but only a few can take a mediocre roster and turn it into a good team.

I don't even understand your point. He said, "You don't win without elite talent through the draft." Then you point to elite talent Carolina got through the draft and jump up and down howling, "SEE?!" You know that most elite talent comes in the high 1st round, but you also know no one is saying you can't find it elsewhere. It's just a numbers game not in your favor. You talk out both sides of your mouth, deady. You talk up (exaggerate) the poor %s of 2nd rounders, as justification for Fletcher haphazardly trading them, but then also point to teams that used picks like that to build their core. Pick one!

Svechnikov was the top rated forward in his class. That's sort of a big deal, even though they got lucky with the lottery. I'd also argue Necas was a top 7-8 talent in his class (I had him there) -- Jarvis might be a similar case. Aho is absolutely a star, and their best player. They have elite talent that I don't see the Flyers having at present.

You know what else they do? Draft a f*** ton in quantity -- good quantity, with some hits to come. They've picked 40 times in the last 4 years; the Flyers have picked 24 times in Fletcher's 4 years. One team is an ECF contender every year; the other is sinking into the basement. Make it make sense. Hell, they've picked 10 times in the top 2 rounds compared to Fletcher's 6. Not picking high and not picking in volume is a place no rebuilding team wants to be.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I’m drunk. But I’m not doing this.

This team is a piece of shit. The only people that cheer for tthis are on the fringes of what the NHL is becoomg( and it’s a beaotfuol game. The filters are. Krhkng likencairlia or any other worthwhile team.

Rebuild or die.

You are complaint the flyers scouting to rush of a decent team. This club doesn’t know Jackie shit when it comes to talent whetaklirik. Evaluation.

 

[DancingPanther]

Do any of "those people" ever respond to me hating this team and hating them more when they win? Just curious

 

[Starat327]

I’m drunk. But I’m not doing this.

This team is a piece of shit. The only people that cheer for tthis are on the fringes of what the NHL is becoomg( and it’s a beaotfuol game. The filters are. Krhkng likencairlia or any other worthwhile team.

Rebuild or die.

You are complaint the flyers scouting to rush of a decent team. This club doesn’t know Jackie shit when it comes to talent whetaklirik. Evaluation.

I wish I could type this well when I'm drunk. Hell I can barely type this well sober.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Guess you forget Carolina before Brind'Amour?

Carolina has one high draft pick, Svechnikov (#2). Necas (#12), Jarvis (#13), that's it.
Aho (#35), picked up Martinhook and Noesen and Burns.
They've made their share of mistakes, Kotkaniemi is grossly overpaid (8yr/$4.25M), as is Staal.
They accumulated a bunch of draft picks, but outside the 1st rd, the only one in the NHL is #36, Kochetkov G.
They let Geekie go in the ED.

So what's their answer? Good coaching, I think Brind"Amour, like Torts, is one of the few coaches that can raise the talent level of players. A lot of coaches can engineer 1-2 year bounces before they're tuned out, but only a few can take a mediocre roster and turn it into a good team.

I thought coaching didn't matter

 

[mja]

They’ve been beat by 3+ goals in 12 games

Come now, everyone knows that the 3 goal lead is the worst in hockey.

 

[flyersnorth]

Tell it to Carolina.

Have they won?

 

[Cody Webster]

I don't even understand your point. He said, "You don't win without elite talent through the draft." Then you point to elite talent Carolina got through the draft and jump up and down howling, "SEE?!" You know that most elite talent comes in the high 1st round, but you also know no one is saying you can't find it elsewhere. It's just a numbers game not in your favor. You talk out both sides of your mouth, deady. You talk up (exaggerate) the poor %s of 2nd rounders, as justification for Fletcher haphazardly trading them, but then also point to teams that used picks like that to build their core. Pick one!

Svechnikov was the top rated forward in his class. That's sort of a big deal, even though they got lucky with the lottery. I'd also argue Necas was a top 7-8 talent in his class (I had him there) -- Jarvis might be a similar case. Aho is absolutely a star, and their best player. They have elite talent that I don't see the Flyers having at present.

You know what else they do? Draft a f*** ton in quantity -- good quantity, with some hits to come. They've picked 40 times in the last 4 years; the Flyers have picked 24 times in Fletcher's 4 years. One team is an ECF contender every year; the other is sinking into the basement. Make it make sense. Hell, they've picked 10 times in the top 2 rounds compared to Fletcher's 6. Not picking high and not picking in volume is a place no rebuilding team wants to be.

When you spew so much bullshit every day, it's hard to keep track of what you're trying to argue

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Carolina willingly let Dougie Hamilton walk over paying him a sizable long term UFA contract & didn’t miss a beat. The Flyers would have handed him what ever he wanted over that & if he did walk they wouldn’t have replaced him & just made excuses feeling sorry about themselves because they couldn’t replace him.

Even beyond just drafting you have a front office that churns through it’s roster almost every year & doesn’t lose a beat while keeping it’s cap/asset flexibility in tact.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

You really can't just hand-wave making excellent trades year after year as irrelevant. Especially when you're trying to compare it to this shitshow.

For example, they were able to draft Jarvis because they both had cap space and got creative with it. They created that opportunity by cashing in accumulated minor wins.

While we're here, Brady Skjei has been fantastic recently. It was definitely a situational overpay, but this version is also worth that and more.

*Edit* I always spell it Skeji. I'm the worst.

 

[deadhead]

I don't even understand your point. He said, "You don't win without elite talent through the draft." Then you point to elite talent Carolina got through the draft and jump up and down howling, "SEE?!" You know that most elite talent comes in the high 1st round, but you also know no one is saying you can't find it elsewhere. It's just a numbers game not in your favor. You talk out both sides of your mouth, deady. You talk up (exaggerate) the poor %s of 2nd rounders, as justification for Fletcher haphazardly trading them, but then also point to teams that used picks like that to build their core. Pick one!

Svechnikov was the top rated forward in his class. That's sort of a big deal, even though they got lucky with the lottery. I'd also argue Necas was a top 7-8 talent in his class (I had him there) -- Jarvis might be a similar case. Aho is absolutely a star, and their best player. They have elite talent that I don't see the Flyers having at present.

You know what else they do? Draft a f*** ton in quantity -- good quantity, with some hits to come. They've picked 40 times in the last 4 years; the Flyers have picked 24 times in Fletcher's 4 years. One team is an ECF contender every year; the other is sinking into the basement. Make it make sense. Hell, they've picked 10 times in the top 2 rounds compared to Fletcher's 6. Not picking high and not picking in volume is a place no rebuilding team wants to be.

Necas and Jarvis were both picked where the Flyers will pick this season.
TK and Farabee are as good and were picked #27 and #14.
It's nice to have a bunch of top 5 picks, but it's also nice to have structure and good coaching and actually get young players to play well.

Torts is underrated b/c of the theatrics, but at each stop, he's gotten later round picks to play well above expectations - this has happened so consistently that it seems to be part of his MO - for every high pick that clashes with him (he doesn't have patience with entitlement 'tude), two guys come out of nowhere.

One reason I was wary of judging the young players on this team was the chaos of the last two seasons wasn't amenable to player development - look at TK blossom.

I see three inflection points this season:

First ten games, both Torts and players trying to figure things out, chaos ruled.
Next sixteen games, players buy in but lines and pairs are in flux as Torts tries to assess who fits with whom and it what role.
Last sixteen games, starting 12/7, JVR returns, lines are set, Allison returns, MacEwen exiled to 4th line, York comes up and is installed in the top 4.

Lost first 4, thee by one goal on the road (2 in OT)
They are now 8-4 the last 12 games, including @ NJ, @ LA, @ Buf, Wash.
scored 55 goals, allowed 51.

TOI the last 16 games:

TK (25) 14:44
Farabee (22) 13:25
Frost (23) 13:25
Cates (23) 13:22
Laughton (28) 13:02
JVR (33) 13:00
Tippett (23) 12:57
Hayes (30) 12:52
Allison (25) 11:47

Provorov (26) 18:27
Sanheim (26) 17:47
TDA (27) 16:55
York (22) 16:23
Risto (28) 15:55