2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

[JojoTheWhale]

You paint miniatures, don't you.

Negative. @Lord Defect does. Not joking.

 

[Chinatown88]

They're popular now. I'm not even joking. The 38 lb one coming tomorrow raised roughly 13 million via Kickstarter and they sold it at 40% of eventual MSRP.

(Also, kinda yes.)

I never got deep into TTRPGs and board games outside of the occasional Monopoly shenanigans. But I respect the passion and love people show. I low key hope the good stuff keeps gaining momentum because it sure as heck beats the cruddy TV shows and cartoons they're releasing.

Also I was watching a Twitch stream and they were mentioning Gunpla. Oh boy I got into a rabbit hole that my wallet survived for now.

 

[TB87]

This is a 100% guarantee: We’d be so happy on this board (en masse) if the situations were switched and the Flyers were being run exactly like the Hurricanes. There’d be some holdouts (trolls who just want to rile people up and not actually engage in a genuine discussion), but most would be at least content with the current and future direction of the franchise.

 

[deadhead]

This is a 100% guarantee: We’d be so happy on this board (en masse) if the situations were switched and the Flyers were being run exactly like the Hurricanes. There’d be some holdouts (trolls who just want to rile people up and not actually engage in a genuine discussion), but most would be at least content with the current and future direction of the franchise.

I think we'd all be happy with a FO that took a longer view than what's required to pump up ticket sales next season.

I'd be happy with Briere if he just shows he understands how the cap works, is focused on value, and doesn't believe in short-term patches.

Looking at Tort's history, if he just has a GM who doesn't get excited about a playoff appearance and will quietly work to add young, cheap players who are good fits, he can build a Cup contender. He had turned CBJ around, then his GM did what Fletcher did in Minnesota (and Zito in Florida), mortgage the future for a one or two year surge. That seems to be a disease that infects many GMs - the idea that since there are no guarantees, maximize the odds of success over the long-run, eludes them.

GMs don't have to be brilliant, they do need to be patient and look for value.

But a GM also needs a FO that won't panic, imagine if Colorado had decided Sakic had screwed up and fired him when they went from 100+ points to the worst record in the NHL in three seasons.

 

[trostol]

You paint miniatures, don't you.

used to..til my eyes stopped working so well

They're popular now. I'm not even joking. The 38 lb one coming tomorrow raised roughly 13 million via Kickstarter and they sold it at 40% of eventual MSRP.

(Also, kinda yes.)

which one is that?

friends and i used to do a lot of Zombiecide and Call to Adventure

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I think we'd all be happy with a FO that took a longer view than what's required to pump up ticket sales next season.

I'd be happy with Briere if he just shows he understands how the cap works, is focused on value, and doesn't believe in short-term patches.

Looking at Tort's history, if he just has a GM who doesn't get excited about a playoff appearance and will quietly work to add young, cheap players who are good fits, he can build a Cup contender. He had turned CBJ around, then his GM did what Fletcher did in Minnesota (and Zito in Florida), mortgage the future for a one or two year surge. That seems to be a disease that infects many GMs - the idea that since there are no guarantees, maximize the odds of success over the long-run, eludes them.

GMs don't have to be brilliant, they do need to be patient and look for value.

But a GM also needs a FO that won't panic, imagine if Colorado had decided Sakic had screwed up and fired him when they went from 100+ points to the worst record in the NHL in three seasons.

Isn't that what a coach wants? GM in Columbus gave him what he needed. So who gets the blame? Of course on this case it is the GM. Not Torts right?

He turned Columbus around. Did he acquire those players or make the draft selections? Maybe the GM and Davidson earn some credit as well.

Again with the Zito stuff. Zito made much needed moves to address areas. Now you want to say he got the wrong players fine. He was proactive like he should have been seeing they had an open window to win a cup.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The constant leaning on Zito as a precautionary tale is bizarre considering he's still blatantly doing a better job than anyone here.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The constant leaning on Zito as a precautionary tale is bizarre considering he's still blatantly doing a better job than anyone here.

very bizarre. You tip your cap to him as he went for it with a legit cup team. Windows open and shut very fast.

 

[deadhead]

Isn't that what a coach wants? GM in Columbus gave him what he needed. So who gets the blame? Of course on this case it is the GM. Not Torts right?

He turned Columbus around. Did he acquire those players or make the draft selections? Maybe the GM and Davidson earn some credit as well.

Again with the Zito stuff. Zito made much needed moves to address areas. Now you want to say he got the wrong players fine. He was proactive like he should have been seeing they had an open window to win a cup.

You don't make those moves until you've built a team that has already shown it's close, like TB, and has specific needs to get over the top. That's the mistake numerous GMs make, if the window is so short, it means you haven't done a good job of team building.

Torts turned Columbus around with almost no moves, Johanson was in his dog house, so flipped for Seth Jones.
The next year, adding Gagner on a one year deal was the big move.
Then they traded Staal for Panarin, knowing Panarin was leaving in two years, gave Karlsson away in the ED to protect veteran forwards, finally traded for Duchene and a couple other players at the TDL. Then let Panarin, Duchene and Bob walk.

The issue is lack of a long-term vision. Basically the GM boxed himself in a corner with the Panarin deal, now he had a two year window after which they couldn't afford to resign the core players - and made no preparation for life without them.

Just b/c you have a good season, doesn't mean "mission accomplished."
Team building is a long term project, don't be fooled by success or panic b/c of a bad season.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You don't make those moves until you've built a team that has already shown it's close, like TB, and has specific needs to get over the top. That's the mistake numerous GMs make, if the window is so short, it means you haven't done a good job of team building.

Torts turned Columbus around with almost no moves, Johanson was in his dog house, so flipped for Seth Jones.
The next year, adding Gagner on a one year deal was the big move.
Then they traded Staal for Panarin, knowing Panarin was leaving in two years, gave Karlsson away in the ED to protect veteran forwards, finally traded for Duchene and a couple other players at the TDL. Then let Panarin, Duchene and Bob walk.

The issue is lack of a long-term vision. Basically the GM boxed himself in a corner with the Panarin deal, now he had a two year window after which they couldn't afford to resign the core players - and made no preparation for life without them.

Just b/c you have a good season, doesn't mean "mission accomplished."
Team building is a long term project, don't be fooled by success or panic b/c of a bad season.

You say this and then you start listing a bunch of moves.

This reads a lot like you're trying to just fluff up Tortorella. It doesn't make any sense. Per your narrative, Tortorella magically fixes the team, and then the GM is supposed to do nothing to capitalize on it? He gives Tortorella what he wants, and then it's his fault the magical Tortorella doesn't get the job done with a better roster? If everything runs through Tortorella, then surely failure should too, shouldn't it? Why does he only get credit for good things? That exact do-nothing strategy, meanwhile, is presented as the reason the current Flyers are ruined to pin the blame on Hextall.

This fails the sniff test, taste test, touch test, and electrical resistance test.

 

[ajgoal]

Some of you haven't played Gloomhaven and it shows.

I still have this thing from when I was a kid. Not my pic, but you literally laid on the floor and fired discs from ships at your opponent's ships. The only good Battleship-style game.

We need a @JojoTheWhale's boardgame extravaganza thread

 

[blackjackmulligan]

You don't make those moves until you've built a team that has already shown it's close, like TB, and has specific needs to get over the top. That's the mistake numerous GMs make, if the window is so short, it means you haven't done a good job of team building.

Torts turned Columbus around with almost no moves, Johanson was in his dog house, so flipped for Seth Jones.
The next year, adding Gagner on a one year deal was the big move.
Then they traded Staal for Panarin, knowing Panarin was leaving in two years, gave Karlsson away in the ED to protect veteran forwards, finally traded for Duchene and a couple other players at the TDL. Then let Panarin, Duchene and Bob walk.

The issue is lack of a long-term vision. Basically the GM boxed himself in a corner with the Panarin deal, now he had a two year window after which they couldn't afford to resign the core players - and made no preparation for life without them.

Just b/c you have a good season, doesn't mean "mission accomplished."
Team building is a long term project, don't be fooled by success or panic b/c of a bad season.

All torts no one else. coaches only have what 3/4 year shelf life? Columbus was close on their eyes. Shit Columbus will be better than the FLyers going forward.

Columbus GM head and shoulders above chuck in every aspect.

 

[Starat327]

Man, all of these old games make me miss playing things like Stratego and Fireball Island.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Man, all of these old games make me miss playing things like Stratego and Fireball Island.

Crossfire must have the hugest gap between coolness in commercials and coolness in real life

 

[ajgoal]

Man, all of these old games make me miss playing things like Stratego and Fireball Island.

Axis and Allies

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Man, all of these old games make me miss playing things like Stratego and Fireball Island.

Some of them go for hundreds on eBay. I sold my childhood Fireball Island for $400 a few years ago.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Parcheesi

 

[landsbergfan]

 

[Beef Invictus]

Very modern. Cutting edge.

Never mind that by reviewing their prior shift, a player is worrying about their next shift.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I still have this thing from when I was a kid. Not my pic, but you literally laid on the floor and fired discs from ships at your opponent's ships. The only good Battleship-style game.

This game was the absolute bomb. We had it when I was a kid, I wish we still did, seems like it could be made into an awesome drinking game.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Very modern. Cutting edge.

Never mind that by reviewing their prior shift, a player is worrying about their next shift.

It might be the most dinosaur thing I've seen a dinosaur f***ing coach do. Jesus.

 

[deadhead]

How easy will it be to move Hayes?
Some FA contracts to see how "overpaid" he is at 3x7.

Strome (29): 5yr/$25M, last three years before signing 59, 49 (54g), 54 points
Copp (28): 5yr/$28.5M, last three years 26, 39, 53
Trocheck (29): 7yr/$39M, last three years, 38 (62g), 43 (47g), 51
Burakovsky (27): 5yr/$27.5M, last three years, 45 (58g), 44 (53g), 61 - outlier, underpaid unless there are issues that lowered his price
Hyman (29): 7yr/$38.5M, 41, 37 (51g), 33 (43g)
Granlund (29): 4yr/$20M, 54, 30 (63g), 27 (51g)
Schwartz (29): 5yr/$27.5M, 36, 57, 21 (40g)

Seems second tier scorers (40-50 points or so) got $5-6M starting at age 29 or so for about 5 years.
With the cap rising in the future, that'll probably be more like $6M this summer.

So Hayes with $2M retained (or contract dumped) would be attractive if he has a solid second half.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Some of them go for hundreds on eBay. I sold my childhood Fireball Island for $400 a few years ago.

I bought Fireball Island for $1 at a garage sale in 1995. I doubt it's still around in my mom's attic, but I'll have to ask...

 

[deadhead]

This is why y'all misunderstand Torts. Think how he's dealt with TK, a player designed to drive a dino into extinction. But TK works hard, plays hard, and makes things happen, so Torts makes funny faces and gives him plenty of ice time.

“The thing about TK — he screws up a lot,” Tortorella said in classic Tortorella fashion. “But it doesn’t bother him. He just goes out and takes his next shift. And that’s a huge attribute for a player.”

“I just think he’s got the proper mindset, that he’s not afraid to make a mistake,” Tortorella continued. “Like he makes a goofy play at the end of the power play, slapping the puck back to the blue line. We’re up by a goal — they’re gonna go for a shorty. And he one-touches a puck and it blows up on him. It’s almost a clearing pass. It’s the last thing we want done there. But I have to admit: he’s not afraid to do that stuff. And I think that’s the proper mindset.”

 

[renberg]

JMO: Torts says a lot of **** just to create chaos. Most of it ends up sheltering the players. If he doesn’t do that, he wants that player gone. When he jumps a member of the media (Fischler, ASP or whoever) don’t think for a minute that the locker room doesn’t support that. He’s probably doing what they’d love to but can’t do. He’s a character but more of a positive one than the clowns that have been recently behind the bench.