2022/23 Roster Thread XV: Where Optional Skates are Mandatory

[blackjackmulligan]

Cam figured why even bother coming back this year for this shit show. Disgracefully they wont say what the injury is or anything at all.

Just another reason they will give the GM another year to get back to "contention".

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

You don't need that much cap room to do that, for one thing, you're limited to retaining money to two players a season?

Well run organizations weaponize cap space.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Cam figured why even bother coming back this year for this shit show. Disgracefully they wont say what the injury is or anything at all.

Just another reason they will give the GM another year to get back to "contention".

At Atkinson's request. That's been the case for weeks now.

Does it make sense? No but it's not the franchise that's doing anything wrong. They can't give out his medical information without his permission.

 

[Cody Webster]

You don't need that much cap room to do that, for one thing, you're limited to retaining money to two players a season?

Why should a shitty, rebuilding, team be anywhere near the top of the cap? It makes no sense.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

You don't need that much cap room to do that, for one thing, you're limited to retaining money to two players a season?

it is 3 players is it not? Besides you asked why do you need cap room. I provided you an answer. To say it isn't needed is laughable. As you never now when a deal may arise or come out of the blue then your left out to dry because no cap space.

Funny how a "rebuilding" team has no cap space, no contract space, little talent at the NHL and lower levels.

At Atkinson's request. That's been the case for weeks now.

Does it make sense? No but it's not the franchise that's doing anything wrong. They can't give out his medical information without his permission.

Since when cant a team say it is a knee or shoulder or what not? All leagues pretty much do. So they need the players permission to do so?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

it is 3 players is it not? Besides you asked why do you need cap room. I provided you an answer. To say it isn't needed is laughable. As you never now when a deal may arise or come out of the blue then your left out to dry because no cap space.

Funny how a "rebuilding" team has no cap space, no contract space, little talent at the NHL and lower levels.


Since when cant a team say it is a knee or shoulder or what not? All leagues pretty much do. So they need the players permission to do so?

Yes, yes they do. It's classified as an upper-body injury and no more than that is required.

 

[deadhead]

I get respecting someones wishes regarding their medical details but it's just... weird in this industry.

HIPPA. Legal ramifications.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

HIPPA. Legal ramifications.

Yes, I know that. Thank you.

It's still weird that Atkinson doesn't want it out there.

 

[deadhead]

Why should a shitty, rebuilding, team be anywhere near the top of the cap? It makes no sense.

Sure it does, basically happens to a team that thinks it's going to be competitive, loads up on "win now" contracts, and falls short.
See San Jose. Took a couple years for Anaheim to work their way out of a similar situation.

JVR goes by the TDL, TDA by next summer, Atkinson to LTIR for two years, Hayes gets moved at some point.
With Ellis and Atkinson on LTIR, they have 10% to work with each summer, about $8M or $89-92M cap.
In two year, they may have $20M off the books and that $8M to work with, in three years Atkinson is off.
Plus they may trade someone like Provorov for young cheap players and draft picks.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Sure it does, basically happens to a team that thinks it's going to be competitive, loads up on "win now" contracts, and falls short.
See San Jose. Took a couple years for Anaheim to work their way out of a similar situation.

JVR goes by the TDL, TDA by next summer, Atkinson to LTIR for two years, Hayes gets moved at some point.
With Ellis and Atkinson on LTIR, they have 10% to work with each summer, about $8M or $89-92M cap.
In two year, they may have $20M off the books and that $8M to work with, in three years Atkinson is off.
Plus they may trade someone like Provorov for young cheap players and draft picks.

Has Chuck Fletcher failed at his job? yes or no?

Who knows maybe they re-sign JVR to 1 year ext to help Frost and Tippet. Now that would make my day.

 

[Danko]

Yes, I know that. Thank you.

It's still weird that Atkinson doesn't want it out there.

Update: misquoted the wrong post.

 

[Danko]

Has Chuck Fletcher failed at his job? yes or no?

Who knows maybe they re-sign JVR to 1 year ext to help Frost and Tippet. Now that would make my day.

Well - rumor is they have JVR on the trade block right now...

 

[deadhead]

Of course JVR is on the block, and come TDL time, Braun, Seeler, MacEwen, anyone over 25 on a one year deal that a team might want for playoff depth.

Guys like Hayes, Provorov, are more likely to be summer deals b/c most playoff teams are close to the cap and don't want to commit to out years until they can make moves to clear cap room.

It'll take 2-3 years to clear out players they don't want going forward, but as I've pointed out, they'll have more than enough cap room for any conceivable deal they should be making, but they have no business looking at 29 year old high priced free agents.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Sure it does, basically happens to a team that thinks it's going to be competitive, loads up on "win now" contracts, and falls short.

You really are just shitting these posts straight out of your chute, and I remain impressed that you can type with your butt cheeks. You know perfectly well that them thinking they would be competitive is the entire f***ing problem and the entire f***ing point. Don't you think you would have more fun if you stopped playing dumb and got on board with the crusade? There isn't even a crumb of jack shit that you can cling to and reasonably make these arguments. So just stop.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Of course JVR is on the block, and come TDL time, Braun, Seeler, MacEwen, anyone over 25 on a one year deal that a team might want for playoff depth.

Guys like Hayes, Provorov, are more likely to be summer deals b/c most playoff teams are close to the cap and don't want to commit to out years until they can make moves to clear cap room.

It'll take 2-3 years to clear out players they don't want going forward, but as I've pointed out, they'll have more than enough cap room for any conceivable deal they should be making, but they have no business looking at 29 year old high priced free agents.

What you fail to realize is the coach and GM like Seeler and Mac. They are the coaches soldiers. So you think they will trade them for a 6th/7th rd pick? Also wouldn't be shocked they keep Braun.

As far as Seeler he has turned into a solid bottom pair dman who is under contract next season on the cheap. That may have more value than a 6/7th.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Of course JVR is on the block, and come TDL time, Braun, Seeler, MacEwen, anyone over 25 on a one year deal that a team might want for playoff depth.

Guys like Hayes, Provorov, are more likely to be summer deals b/c most playoff teams are close to the cap and don't want to commit to out years until they can make moves to clear cap room.

It'll take 2-3 years to clear out players they don't want going forward, but as I've pointed out, they'll have more than enough cap room for any conceivable deal they should be making, but they have no business looking at 29 year old high priced free agents.

As long as Fletcher is president he's going to demand they sign 29 year old high priced free agents.

There is no way these people have realized they need more than a trade or two to fix things.

 

[freakydallas13]

You really are just shitting these posts straight out of your chute, and I remain impressed that you can type with your butt cheeks. You know perfectly well that them thinking they would be competitive is the entire f***ing problem and the entire f***ing point. Don't you think you would have more fun if you stopped playing dumb and got on board with the crusade? There isn't even a crumb of jack shit that you can cling to and reasonably make these arguments. So just stop.

I can't even see who you are replying to, but I'm pretty sure I know exactly who it is.

 

[deadhead]

You really are just shitting these posts straight out of your chute, and I remain impressed that you can type with your butt cheeks. You know perfectly well that them thinking they would be competitive is the entire f***ing problem and the entire f***ing point. Don't you think you would have more fun if you stopped playing dumb and got on board with the crusade? There isn't even a crumb of jack shit that you can cling to and reasonably make these arguments. So just stop.

What have I been saying for two years?
This goes back to the Carter/Richard trades, they've been deluding themselves for a decade.

2017-18 team had 98 points, had some young players Provorov (21), TK (20), Patrick (19), Ghost (24), Couts (25), Laughton (23), Sanheim (21), but the key players were G (30), Voracek (28), Simmonds (29), Filppula (33), Raffl (29), Amac (31).

So of course they sign JVR (29) to a 5 year deal, as if they were one player away.
Then they implode in 2018-19 due to Spinal Tap goalies.

So the choice was either reset or try to win in a short window before G and Voracek aged out.

With Patrick exposed as damaged goods, Ghost hobbled with injuries, going for it was not necessarily the wrong move, the execution was b/c they didn't do it as a "crash and burn" exercise, knowing they'd have to rebuild after a couple years competing.

If you go "crash and burn," you don't give AV a 5yr deal, you don't sign Hayes to a 7 year deal, you do make the Niskanen and Braun deals, add a veteran center on a short-term deal, etc. Those moves, which I'm sure even if initiated by Fletcher, were signed off by the "brain trust," demonstrate that the FO overestimated the talent on this team, especially after they knew Patrick was damaged goods.

Otherwise, they should have traded Voracek and G while they had maximum value, taken a step back, been honest with the fan base, and spend 2-3 years building up the young talent base.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Listening to 32T podcast...sorry if it's been posted already:

1. JvR Likely to be dealt
2. Hayes speculation of the chance he is bought out
3. They think a rebuild is coming

Jeff was incredibly too positive about our prospects and assets - just want to note that

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Jalen Chatfield scored against Dallas on Saturday, so now it's just Braun and Rist0 who have played 25+ games without a point.

Two players still have zero points after playing at least 25 games

They are both top 6 defenseman for Chuck Fletcher's 27th place Philadelphia Flyers. Justin Braun, 35 years old - signed to a 1 year, $1m deal on 7/13/2022 Rasmus Ristolainen, 28 years old - signed to a 5 year, $25,000,000 deal on 3/10/2022...

forums.hfboards.com

Flutch has done such a terrific job..

loook we are in a class by ourselves. thats not easy to do.

 

[BernieParent]

This may come across as callous but why does the "Accountability!" Flyers FO seem as firm as wet toilet paper when deciding treatment options for serious injuries? Sure, the player has to make the ultimate decision on recovery but they are also employees making millions to play for the team. A credible organization wouldn't be stringing their fanbase along with day-to-day estimates, only to have the players suddenly be out for the year. This is probably the extreme response to the spectacular failure of rushing players back from injury, only to have them fall back onto IR.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

merry festivus.. i true holiday for the rest of us..

 

[deadhead]

What you fail to realize is the coach and GM like Seeler and Mac. They are the coaches soldiers. So you think they will trade them for a 6th/7th rd pick? Also wouldn't be shocked they keep Braun.

As far as Seeler he has turned into a solid bottom pair dman who is under contract next season on the cheap. That may have more value than a 6/7th.

I don't think Torts has any serious attachment to MacEwen or Seeler. He likes how they play, but they're not "his" players.

If they were a competitive team, Seeler would have a lot of value as cheap depth (on a two way deal next year). But not for a rebuild.
And Braun is definitely a goner if there's any demand (which there should be, PO teams like veterans like him as a #7 D-man who can fill in for a game or two).
MacEwen, depends what they're offered, a 4th and he's gone, a 7th and he comes back.

Come spring, I expect a lot of LHV players to be up unless they make the playoffs (in which case the AHL playoff could be better development experience than playing out the string in Philly).

Next season I expect Attard, Foerster to start, maybe Desnoyers.
Zamula/Ginning will get a shot.
And Gauthier if he keeps developing.

 

[deadhead]

This may come across as callous but why does the "Accountability!" Flyers FO seem as firm as wet toilet paper when deciding treatment options for serious injuries? Sure, the player has to make the ultimate decision on recovery but they are also employees making millions to play for the team. A credible organization wouldn't be stringing their fanbase along with day-to-day estimates, only to have the players suddenly be out for the year. This is probably the extreme response to the spectacular failure of rushing players back from injury, only to have them fall back onto IR.

Have you dealt with doctors, especially with someone with complicated issues?
TV doctors produce miracles, real doctors often fly by the seat of their pants making educated guesses, many which turn out to be wrong.
Sometimes crap happens and it's nobody's fault.
Often you don't find the real cause until after a "normal" rehab fails, and it becomes apparent that the original diagnosis, although reasonable at the time, was wrong.

Listening to 32T podcast...sorry if it's been posted already:

1. JvR Likely to be dealt
2. Hayes speculation of the chance he is bought out
3. They think a rebuild is coming

Jeff was incredibly too positive about our prospects and assets - just want to note that

I'd be shocked if they bought out Hayes, if you retain 50%, I'm sure there will be suitors.
It would make far more sense to retain, or take a bad veteran contract back, than buy him out.