2022/23 Roster Thread XIV: Season's Beatings

[captainpaxil]

This isn't for the AHL team. They want to make sure he sticks around until they clear an NHL spot.

So long as it's another bottom tier guy going out I'm not concerned with the coach having his guy. Cates and laughton are better on the wing so that leaves Hayes frost and sedlak at center.
Injuries aren't an excuse for how bad the team is but when you have a hard limit on contracts and half a dozen guys who can't play there's going to be a squeeze just to put people on the ice.
I've said before connauton would be one I'd ship out. Also have to expect to shed a few near the deadline

 

[gertbfrobe16]

I imagine his value today, if you believe he’s a true 70-80 point player, is probably still similar to when he was a ~25 goal, 50 point guy on his ELC, given control. Maybe it peaked in Fletcher’s first full season in 19-20, but it’s scary to think he’s only under contract for 2.5 more years.

As for Konecny and Fletcher, I always love this tidbit when he was suffering from a low shooting %:



Chuck is so brilliant to have almost sold low on Konecny and deciding otherwise.

Konecny was probably pissed he didn't trade him.

 

[deadhead]

The thing about the Niskanen (and Braun) trade is it showcased an early recurring pattern for Fletcher: high risk, high cost turnarounds. Niskanen, although he had legitimate hope for a bounce back with his Capitals 2nd half splits, ended up a 1 year (very good) stopgap for a bubble team. Best case, 2 years. I’ll apparently be a septuagenarian before Braun is off this team, and while he has mostly equipped himself “fine,” he was coming off some rough seasons with the Sharks. Neither were spring chickens.

So, Fletcher needed to replace Niskanen, and 1 year later, lo and behold, the Ellis trade. Talent-wise, there was no issue, but they assumed a 6 year x $6.25MM AAV contract with injury history. The details of a likely degenerative core issue escape all of us, and it’s an outcome for which I don’t go out of my way to blame Fletcher, but it’s unlikely that was a sudden spring training issue.

Super young developing prospect Ristolainen again fits the high risk, high cost mold. All of this is directly linked to Niskanen retiring and desperately acquiring RDs. Now, this off-season, we have DeAngelo. Stopgaps aren’t bad in theory and situationally. But no long term, surefire move was actually made to fill a hole. So, you have lots of assets, lots of dollars, and lots of risk in place of that, with no needle moving.

Actually it is likely, since Ellis played 25 minutes a night in the playoffs that June. Doubtful he could have done that if he had any sort of core damage - since his game was predicated on speed and skill, not size and positioning (if he can't skate, he can't play).

Niskanen and Braun were "win now" moves dictated by Holmgren, so was the signing of Hayes.

The alternative would have been to sign a mediocre low cost center (they knew Patrick was damaged goods), some cheap fill-ins on D, and re-start the rebuild with a different HC than AV - but does anyone think that a GM who suggested that strategy would have been hired?

Risto was just stupidity, note I said so at the time. Ghost was AV, since they weren't willing to eat $15M and start a rebuild, then the alternative was giving him the players he wanted and hope for a repeat of 2019-20. Hope springs eternal, at least until the losses pile up.

Don't know how much is Scott how much is Fletcher, but it's clear Fletcher was trying to pretend to compete while also angling to add young talent - and the damn rabbit ran away! No wonder he didn't want Torts - because Torts wasn't going to back his GM's smoke and mirror act. But we don't know if the real reason is Scott doesn't want to face reality (and admit to his bosses he screwed up) - and Fletcher is just trying to hold on to his job another year by feeding his boss' delusions and crossing his fingers.

So long as it's another bottom tier guy going out I'm not concerned with the coach having his guy. Cates and laughton are better on the wing so that leaves Hayes frost and sedlak at center.
Injuries aren't an excuse for how bad the team is but when you have a hard limit on contracts and half a dozen guys who can't play there's going to be a squeeze just to put people on the ice.
I've said before connauton would be one I'd ship out. Also have to expect to shed a few near the deadline

Anisimov is a great addition for LHV, I'd pay him the NHL minimum to play the whole season, he's really raised the games of Foerster and Lycksell. Brooks has struggled to stay healthy, O"Reilly is near the end, the 4C is basically an ECHL plus player, and Desnoyers is a defensive first center. So having a veteran offensive center is good for developing young forwards.

 

[freakydallas13]

They weren't willing to eat AV's contract that summer, but they were willing to eat it 2 months into the season?

Yeahokay.jpg

 

[flyerslducks]

"Pretend to compete" should be the flyers slogan

 

[Ironmanrulez]

So long as it's another bottom tier guy going out I'm not concerned with the coach having his guy. Cates and laughton are better on the wing so that leaves Hayes frost and sedlak at center.
Injuries aren't an excuse for how bad the team is but when you have a hard limit on contracts and half a dozen guys who can't play there's going to be a squeeze just to put people on the ice.
I've said before connauton would be one I'd ship out. Also have to expect to shed a few near the deadline

Imagine being on max cap and on maxed contracts and both Teams are bottom of the league! You've done anything wrong. Congrats!!!!

 

[trostol]

rebuilding!!!!

 

[Beef Invictus]

Actually it is likely, since Ellis played 25 minutes a night in the playoffs that June. Doubtful he could have done that if he had any sort of core damage - since his game was predicated on speed and skill, not size and positioning (if he can't skate, he can't play).

Niskanen and Braun were "win now" moves dictated by Holmgren, so was the signing of Hayes.

The alternative would have been to sign a mediocre low cost center (they knew Patrick was damaged goods), some cheap fill-ins on D, and re-start the rebuild with a different HC than AV - but does anyone think that a GM who suggested that strategy would have been hired?

Risto was just stupidity, note I said so at the time. Ghost was AV, since they weren't willing to eat $15M and start a rebuild, then the alternative was giving him the players he wanted and hope for a repeat of 2019-20. Hope springs eternal, at least until the losses pile up.

Don't know how much is Scott how much is Fletcher, but it's clear Fletcher was trying to pretend to compete while also angling to add young talent - and the damn rabbit ran away! No wonder he didn't want Torts - because Torts wasn't going to back his GM's smoke and mirror act. But we don't know if the real reason is Scott doesn't want to face reality (and admit to his bosses he screwed up) - and Fletcher is just trying to hold on to his job another year by feeding his boss' delusions and crossing his fingers.


Anisimov is a great addition for LHV, I'd pay him the NHL minimum to play the whole season, he's really raised the games of Foerster and Lycksell. Brooks has struggled to stay healthy, O"Reilly is near the end, the 4C is basically an ECHL plus player, and Desnoyers is a defensive first center. So having a veteran offensive center is good for developing young forwards.

Holmgren did not order Fletcher to acquire specific players. The players were selected by Fletcher. Holmgren is not the President, GM, and Alt Governor. He's not even that active relative to Lombardi and Clarke. These decisions are on Fletcher.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Anisimov is a great addition for LHV, I'd pay him the NHL minimum to play the whole season, he's really raised the games of Foerster and Lycksell. Brooks has struggled to stay healthy, O"Reilly is near the end, the 4C is basically an ECHL plus player, and Desnoyers is a defensive first center. So having a veteran offensive center is good for developing young forwards.

So to review:

• Artem Anisimov, who was always a defensive Middle 6 Center, a man who was often tagged as the next Michael Handzus, is reclassified in the AHL at 34 years old as an offensive player because a lame org death rattles him into the role.
• Elliot Desnoyers, who is 20 years old, and has played all of 22 games above the Junior level, is a defensive center and will always be that. Let’s not even try to maximize him.

Gee, I wonder why no one has any hope.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

what was the right things Flusher did?

nIsky for Gudas he gets a plus.
Wisdom trade probably good
Desnoyers ditto
what else?

If u say Braun trade, then use common sense. Would you rather have drafted Boldy at 11 and use the 2nd and 3rd picks to trade up for Brink(u probably may have had to add another pick say a 4 or 5). Or so do u prefer the combo of Braun, York, and Brink? At best its a C- trade

Ghost trade f

Fisto trade f

Deangelo trade at best d, reality d-/f for a team needs the picks to rebuild

G for Tippett and a 1st down the road. It seems like G hamstrung Flusher. So how can u rate the trade properly? b-/c+? meh trade?

jake for cam its putting a new paint job on pool chairs at the titanic. a nothing trade that added another year of cap headache to whomever takes over a c trade if there ever was a c trade.

Ellis trade f. Talent wise the trade was correct. The question becomes did Flusher know the medicals and ignore them or are flyers doctors stupid? Or flusher just unlucky for those that lick Flusher feet.

Gus signing F lots of suxatude

Nate signing/trade f uber suxatude

Grant d trade but really is so much more AV's misuse that Flusher's mis trade. Grant 4c 8 min a night was fine. Grant at 3c or 4w as Barzal shutdown defender had no shot of working.

Hartman for Pitlick at best D. Now under AV Hartman would have never developed into a 60+ point player. And Pitlick had a an ok 4w season. But it is still fugly trade no matter how u look at it.

Trading down for York is a d at best. Boldy or Caufield (especially on the second go round) was better and obvious choices

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

“I don’t absolve Chuck Fletcher of blame, now watch as I absolve Chuck Fletcher of blame.”

 

[Curufinwe]

Braun was really good in 19-20. That was three years ago, and now he’s 35.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

 

[ajgoal]

True.

Fans are dumb as shit.

So are we dumb fans?

Or dumb because we're fans?

 

[Beef Invictus]

So to review:

• Artem Anisimov, who was always a defensive Middle 6 Center, a man who was often tagged as the next Michael Handzus, is reclassified in the AHL at 34 years old as an offensive player because a lame org death rattles him into the role.
• Elliot Desnoyers, who is 20 years old, and has played all of 22 games above the Junior level, is a defensive center and will always be that. Let’s not even try to maximize him.

Gee, I wonder why no one has any hope.

I am told this is all very good development.

 

[captainpaxil]

Imagine being on max cap and on maxed contracts and both Teams are bottom of the league! You've done anything wrong. Congrats!!!!

It's a series of events following the ellis deal. That's exacerbated our lack of center depth and created a lack of size on defense. They moved ghost to make room for risto and then with injuries you have assets and money tied up in a celebrated deal that didn't work. The inability to see the flaws in the deals you like is fletchers biggest problem and it's a pretty common one on these boards. We're facing many of the same issues we had three years ago and have lees hope of changing them. People want to bag on the tda move but the biggest screw up this year was renewing sanheim. So if you aren't going to start there maybe a little less sarcasm

 

[renberg]

It's a series of events following the ellis deal. That's exacerbated our lack of center depth and created a lack of size on defense. They moved ghost to make room for risto and then with injuries you have assets and money tied up in a celebrated deal that didn't work. The inability to see the flaws in the deals you like is fletchers biggest problem and it's a pretty common one on these boards. We're facing many of the same issues we had three years ago and have lees hope of changing them. People want to bag on the tda move but the biggest screw up this year was renewing sanheim. So if you aren't going to start there maybe a little less sarcasm

If only it was one, “celebrated deal that didn’t work.” Fletcher has proven to be King Midas in reverse. Everything that he touches turns to ****.

 

[TB87]

Let’s not even try to maximize him.

The least amount of effort needed to coax nothing extra out of a developing player is the Flyers motto. This is the way.

 

[deadhead]

So to review:

• Artem Anisimov, who was always a defensive Middle 6 Center, a man who was often tagged as the next Michael Handzus, is reclassified in the AHL at 34 years old as an offensive player because a lame org death rattles him into the role.
• Elliot Desnoyers, who is 20 years old, and has played all of 22 games above the Junior level, is a defensive center and will always be that. Let’s not even try to maximize him.

Gee, I wonder why no one has any hope.

Desnoyers was used in junior, similar to N Cates in college, as a jack of all trades player who worked his way into a 1st line role. And back in that defense first role at the WJC.
He may end up as a 1C in the AHL, but let him work his way there, same way Wisdom is working his way up the ladder.

Anisimov has shown he's an offensive player at the AHL level, same way Sedlak was a 1C in the KHL - doesn't mean the could fill those roles at the NHL level, but for Foerster and Lycksell, it helps to have a veteran center while they learn on the job.

A problem for most prospects has been lost time the last two seasons, Desnoyers only played 37 games in 2020-21, Wisdom 28 AHL and 54 OHL games over two seasons, Foerster 33 AHL, 19 OHL and 7 WJC games over two seasons.

Given this is a lost season at the NHL level, good reason NOT to rush younger prospects to the NHL. We have a bunch of older prospects who need to get cameos to judge whether they're worth keeping as depth. Allison and Laczynski will return at some point, Lycksell needs to see NHL time, York, Zamula and Attard, and even Ginning (250 SHL games means he doesn't need a lot of AHL seasoning).

Braun was really good in 19-20. That was three years ago, and now he’s 35.

He was traded for a 3rd rd pick at the TDL last year.

He can probably get a 4th this year, playoff teams see someone like him as injury insurance, safer for a few games than plugging in some young marginal D-man who has no PO experience.

 

[Fire Tortorella]

Not sure where exactly to put this - definitely not listening to these guys for any insight or talk about the team but they have some good stories about previous players/teams.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Desnoyers was used in junior, similar to N Cates in college, as a jack of all trades player who worked his way into a 1st line role. And back in that defense first role at the WJC.
He may end up as a 1C in the AHL, but let him work his way there, same way Wisdom is working his way up the ladder.

Anisimov has shown he's an offensive player at the AHL level, same way Sedlak was a 1C in the KHL - doesn't mean the could fill those roles at the NHL level, but for Foerster and Lycksell, it helps to have a veteran center while they learn on the job.

A problem for most prospects has been lost time the last two seasons, Desnoyers only played 37 games in 2020-21, Wisdom 28 AHL and 54 OHL games over two seasons, Foerster 33 AHL, 19 OHL and 7 WJC games over two seasons.

Given this is a lost season at the NHL level, good reason NOT to rush younger prospects to the NHL. We have a bunch of older prospects who need to get cameos to judge whether they're worth keeping as depth. Allison and Laczynski will return at some point, Lycksell needs to see NHL time, York, Zamula and Attard, and even Ginning (250 SHL games means he doesn't need a lot of AHL seasoning).


He was traded for a 3rd rd pick at the TDL last year.

He can probably get a 4th this year, playoff teams see someone like him as injury insurance, safer for a few games than plugging in some young marginal D-man who has no PO experience.

So in short you believe the Flyers, who stagnate or destroy players of all career stages left and right, are doing a good job with development.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Imagine thinking the Sanheim contract was Fletcher's worst decision. One of maybe two or three guys on the team that looks like a difference maker at times.

 

[landsbergfan]

Imagine thinking the Sanheim contract was Fletcher's worst decision. One of maybe two or three guys on the team that looks like a difference maker at times.

There are lots of difference makers…or do you just mean guys who make a positive difference?

 

[Starat327]

There are lots of difference makers…or do you just mean guys who make a positive difference?

I hate that you stole this from me. <3 u anyway bb

 

[captainpaxil]

Imagine thinking the Sanheim contract was Fletcher's worst decision. One of maybe two or three guys on the team that looks like a difference maker at times.

Thanks for proving my point. Use a statement that I didn't make and then celebrate hanging on to the one expiring contract that would have garnered value at the deadline. Please continue to complain about why the flyers don't have any high end talent