2022/23 Roster Thread XIII: Where the 13th Floor Has Been Located

[deadhead]

Couts, Atkinson was one thing, at least they knew that was coming, though not for as long.
But TK, JVR, Laughton and Allison?
Basically you have Hayes, Farabee, and 10 bottom six or AHL players offensively.
And you wonder why they can't score?

 

[Magua]

TK and Laughton have played most of the season. They still sucked. Allison was a bottom 6 rookie. And I regularly read JVR is a horrific player.

They’ve been bad offensively all season, nothing more than flash in the pan opportunism. Even with a couple guys being around a point/game. Overusing fringe players, no putting players in positions to succeed, horrible PP coaching, no real 5v5 possession strategy, terrible offseason additions — they all contribute. There’s functionally bad, which we’d all understand, then there’s this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Getting every player back might elevate them from 30th place finish to 25th.

 

[flyerslducks]

Risto with 0 points in 15 games. Dude is ass.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Risto with 0 points in 15 games. Dude is ass.

But how many hits?

 

[flyerslducks]

But how many hits?

At least 20 hits that took him out of the play and then led to a goal is my guess

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Risto with 0 points in 15 games. Dude is ass.

right handed ass thou...

 

[WIP CALLER]

Risto with 0 points in 15 games. Dude is ass.

He’s just conserving himself for the playoffs… just wait until you see him then!

 

[FlyerNutter]

 

[Flyerfan4life]

View attachment 613120

well he aint wrong

 

[bennysflyers16]

right handed ass thou...

Also a big ass, some like that.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Blaming everything on the nebulous boogeymen of culture and "the room" only for it to turn out that their golden boy is even worse by their own standards is A+ schadenfreude.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Blaming everything on the nebulous boogeymen of culture and "the room" only for it to turn out that their golden boy is even worse by their own standards is A+ schadenfreude.

What if I told you that they’re just going to use it as an excuse to keep their jobs? Like they somehow did the last two years despite overhauling “the room” each year.

After all, we already have the usual suspects claiming that Fletcher had no other options and was forced to sign Hayes.

Also can’t forget that those same people claim that it’s merely a coincidence the Flyers sought after all of his frat boy friends.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What if I told you that they’re just going to use it as an excuse to keep their jobs? Like they somehow did the last two years despite overhauling “the room” each year.

After all, we already have the usual suspects claiming that Fletcher had no other options and was forced to sign Hayes.

Also can’t forget that those same people claim that it’s merely a coincidence the Flyers sought after all of his frat boy friends.

If whoever is making that decisions is this incompetent, I'll just continue not caring or watching.

I know it's a callous answer, but once you divorce yourself emotionally from this dumpster fire, they have to do something meaningful to ever get me back. I hope you're in the same spot tbh. They don't pass the minimum bar for being worth your time.

 

[deadhead]

Those Hayes friends were AV's guys, Hayes was AV's guy. They doubled down on AV and lost.

Torts didn't get the message that Hayes was the PO poster boy, his minutes are steadily declining.

Hayes got a muligan last year between his injury and his brother, but patience is wearing thin, despite his scoring on a team desperate for offense. Fletcher may or may not be rebuilding, but Torts certainly is.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Those Hayes friends were AV's guys, Hayes was AV's guy. They doubled down on AV and lost.

Torts didn't get the message that Hayes was the PO poster boy, his minutes are steadily declining.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Those Hayes friends were AV's guys, Hayes was AV's guy. They doubled down on AV and lost.

That would be even worse than what I said! Committing huge money for 5 years to a coach, then full UFA money at 7 years to a non-star, then doubling down on both of those is something Chiarelli wouldn’t even do.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

If whoever is making that decisions is this incompetent, I'll just continue not caring or watching.

I know it's a callous answer, but once you divorce yourself emotionally from this dumpster fire, they have to do something meaningful to ever get me back. I hope you're in the same spot tbh. They don't pass the minimum bar for being worth your time.

Most of the games this season have been on my TV but I have likely paid full attention for less then an entire game combined up to this point.

Until the entirety of the front office is gone there’s nothing to look forward to or have hope for. With that said even when Fletcher is fired they’re going to go the laziest and most Flyers route and just hire Briere. Nothing will change so we’ll just be waiting another four years for anything.

Not that we’re not going to be waiting another four years plus anyway even if they did clean house with how the roster is currently constructed and the contracts given out.

 

[BiggE]

Dear Cuck

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Fletcher may or may not be rebuilding, but Torts certainly is.

And that's the major problem with this organization. NOBODY is on the same page as to how to move forward with the club. You've got the senior advisors who think this club can contend, you've got a GM who thinks this is a 'stabilizing' year, a coach that wants a full rebuild and a CEO who has no balls to lean on one direction or another.

As mentioned, Schmuck could fire all the senior advisors and bring in new people who would back a rebuild, but he clearly thinks similarly as to how they do. Tortorella could go above Schmuck and right to Scott, but Scott's ego is continually stroked by Schmuck and the advisors, so it's a reality that Scott would side with them.

So we can stop with the rebuild garbage because it isn't happening. In fact, I'm willing to double down on that and say that all these players who are 'supposed' to be moved at the deadline, maybe one will go and it will be inconsequential because Schmuck will point to the injuries as the problem and he'll be given yet another year in his 'aggressive' retool to fix the club.

 

[flyersnorth]

Huh? They signed Hayes b/c Holmgren (or Clarke, who cares which senile advisor) gave Fletcher a win now mandate and Patrick was damaged goods. If it wasn't Hayes, it would have been Duchene and the same gripping (3 more years at $8M! age 33-35). The mistake was not rebuilding when they found out Patrick was a mistake.

If Hayes keeps scoring, there will be a taker, he has 19 points in 20 games, including 12 ES points on a team without a real top 6 center. And given Torts' reputation, some GM will take a chance on salvaging Hayes, especially as a scoring winger.

Here are all of Fletch's transactions. How would you evaluate those moves specifically in the context of trying to "win now"?

What I see is more talent and assets going out than coming in. And the crazy thing is *most* of the higher profile moves have just not worked out.

Talbot, Niskanen, Ellis, Risto, Atkinson.

He has systematically made this team worse while depleting it of high end assets and pushing them to the cap. This is a max cap team that can barely ice an NHL lineup.

In simpler terms, he has completely failed at "winning now" or at any time, really.

List of All Chuck Fletcher Trades in Philadelphia

Chuck Fletcher took the helm of the Philadelphia Flyers on December 3, 2018, and has been crafting his vision for the club ever since. The bulk of the changes he’s made has come via trade, an…

brotherlypuck.com

1/11/19- Jacob Graves and 2019 sixth round pick (Roddy Ross) for Jordan Weal
1/17/19- Justin Bailey for Taylor Leier
2/11/19- David Schlemko and Byron Froese for Dale Weise and Christian Folin
2/16/19- Cam Talbot for Anthony Stolarz
2/25/19- Ryan Hartman and 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) for Wayne Simmonds
6/3/19- Rights to Kevin Hayes for 2019 fifth round pick (Harrison Blaisdell)
6/14/19- Matt Niskanen for Radko Gudas
6/18/19- Justin Braun for 2019 second round pick (Kaeden Korczak) and 2020 third round pick (Maxim Groshev)
6/24/19- Tyler Pitlick for Ryan Hartman
2/19/20- futures for J.F. Berube
2/24/20- Nathan Noel for T.J. Brennan
2/24/20- Derek Grant for 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) and Kyle Criscuolo
2/24/20- Nate Thompson for 2021 fifth round pick (Danii Sobolev)
7/17/21- Ryan Ellis for Phil Myers and Nolan Patrick
7/22/21- salary dump for Shayne Gostisbehere, 2022 second round pick and 2022 seventh round pick
7/23/21- Rasmus Ristolainen for Robert Hagg, 2021 first round pick (Isak Rosen) and 2023 second round pick
7/24/21- Cam Atkinson for Jake Voracek
3/19/22- Owen Tippett, 2024 first round pick and 2023 first round pick for Claude Giroux, Connor Bunnaman, German Rubtsov and a 2024 fifth round pick
3/21/22- 2023 third round pick for Justin Braun
3/21/22- 2023 fourth round pick for Derick Brassard
3/23/22- Brennan Menell for futures
7/8/22- Rights to Tony DeAngelo and a 2022 seventh round pick (Alexis Gendron) for 2022 fourth round pick (Simon Forsmark), 2023 third round pick and a 2024 second round pick.

 

[BiggE]

And that's the major problem with this organization. NOBODY is on the same page as to how to move forward with the club. You've got the senior advisors who think this club can contend, you've got a GM who thinks this is a 'stabilizing' year, a coach that wants a full rebuild and a CEO who has no balls to lean on one direction or another.

As mentioned, Schmuck could fire all the senior advisors and bring in new people who would back a rebuild, but he clearly thinks similarly as to how they do. Tortorella could go above Schmuck and right to Scott, but Scott's ego is continually stroked by Schmuck and the advisors, so it's a reality that Scott would side with them.

So we can stop with the rebuild garbage because it isn't happening. In fact, I'm willing to double down on that and say that all these players who are 'supposed' to be moved at the deadline, maybe one will go and it will be inconsequential because Schmuck will point to the injuries as the problem and he'll be given yet another year in his 'aggressive' retool to fix the club.

My bet is that the only deadline move will be JVR with 50% retained and our 4th for a late 2nd.

 

[BiggE]

Here are all of Fletch's transactions. How would you evaluate those moves specifically in the context of trying to "win now"?

What I see is more talent and assets going out than coming in. And the crazy thing is *most* of the higher profile moves have just not worked out.

Talbot, Niskanen, Ellis, Risto, Atkinson.

He has systematically made this team worse while depleting it of high end assets and pushing them to the cap. This is a max cap team that can barely ice an NHL lineup.

In simpler terms, he has completely failed at "winning now" or at any time, really.

List of All Chuck Fletcher Trades in Philadelphia

Chuck Fletcher took the helm of the Philadelphia Flyers on December 3, 2018, and has been crafting his vision for the club ever since. The bulk of the changes he’s made has come via trade, an…

brotherlypuck.com

1/11/19- Jacob Graves and 2019 sixth round pick (Roddy Ross) for Jordan Weal: WGAF?
1/17/19- Justin Bailey for Taylor Leier: WGAF?
2/11/19- David Schlemko and Byron Froese for Dale Weise and Christian Folin: Ew, gross
2/16/19- Cam Talbot for Anthony Stolarz: Ew, more gross
2/25/19- Ryan Hartman and 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) for Wayne Simmonds: Why?
6/3/19- Rights to Kevin Hayes for 2019 fifth round pick (Harrison Blaisdell): DISGUSTING!
6/14/19- Matt Niskanen for Radko Gudas: Fun while it lasted
6/18/19- Justin Braun for 2019 second round pick (Kaeden Korczak) and 2020 third round pick (Maxim Groshev): LOLZ
6/24/19- Tyler Pitlick for Ryan Hartman: WGAF?
2/19/20- futures for J.F. Berube: Again, why?
2/24/20- Nathan Noel for T.J. Brennan: Oh joy
2/24/20- Derek Grant for 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) and Kyle Criscuolo: Who wouldn't want more of Derek Grant
2/24/20- Nate Thompson for 2021 fifth round pick (Danii Sobolev): TOTALLY DISGUSTING
7/17/21- Ryan Ellis for Phil Myers and Nolan Patrick: LOLZ x Infinity
7/22/21- salary dump for Shayne Gostisbehere, 2022 second round pick and 2022 seventh round pick: Why is this clown still employed?
7/23/21- Rasmus Ristolainen for Robert Hagg, 2021 first round pick (Isak Rosen) and 2023 second round pick: I mean seriously, a wino off the street could do a better job
7/24/21- Cam Atkinson for Jake Voracek: sigh
3/19/22- Owen Tippett, 2024 first round pick and 2023 first round pick for Claude Giroux, Connor Bunnaman, German Rubtsov and a 2024 fifth round pick: Free at last G, free at last
3/21/22- 2023 third round pick for Justin Braun: And yet this jackass is still our GM
3/21/22- 2023 fourth round pick for Derick Brassard: So gross
3/23/22- Brennan Menell for futures' Who?
7/8/22- Rights to Tony DeAngelo and a 2022 seventh round pick (Alexis Gendron) for 2022 fourth round pick (Simon Forsmark), 2023 third round pick and a 2024 second round pick.: Dear God, kill me now.

 

[deadhead]

When Fletcher was hired, it was with a clear mandate to "win now," Holmgren and Scott were adamant about that.
Fletcher did not sell the house doing so, 2nd and 3rd for Braun (recouped the 3rd last TDL), got a 6th for Weal, gave a 5th for Hayes' rights, 4th and 5th at the TDL for Grant and Thompson. So net cost of making the playofs, 2nd, 4th, (2) 5ths.

The problem came last summer, when it was either fire AV, eat $15M and start a rebuild or double down. Let's say Fletcher had pushed for a rebuild, think he would have been given the green light by Scott? In what universe?

Basically, all the damage came on one transaction, Ghost/Risto, 1st, 2 2nd rd picks, Atkinson/Voracek was a wash.

Tippett, a 1st and 3rd was about all they were getting for G, Colorado wasn't offering Newhook or Byram, so it would have been Barron, 2023 1st (late 20s?), and another asset.
End up with Tippett, 2024 1st, (2) 2023 3rd and 2023 4th at the TDL.
Traded their own 2023 3rd and 2024 2nd for TDA (27).

The cap ramifications of Hayes and Ellis won't matter b/c they're rebuilding (they'll be dumping salary the next few years, not signing big name FAs). They were stuck with Voracek's $8.25M next year if they don't make the Atkinson trade, so a lower cap hit and then an extra year when they have dumped JVR's salary.

They don't suck b/c of Fletcher's transactions, Patrick and Myers were damaged goods - they suck because they blew too many draft picks and haven't drafted an elite player for a decade. Couts in 2011. TK is probably the best player since then. Fletcher is just the icing on the shit pie (The Help).

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

He was given the mandate to win now. He did not win now.

He’s a failure. They have no cap space, no prospects, and have sent out more draft picks then they’ve brought in.

Stop defending the man.

P.S. They’re not rebuilding and I lol’d at the idea of “these shitty contracts that he gave out won’t matter” because they’re now rebuilding due to Fletcher’s ineptitude somehow not being his fault. Top notch.