2022/23 Roster Thread XII: The Twelfth Night, a comedy play

[Ghosts Beer]

If the best you can do with 5OA is draft the next Scott Laughton, then your team must be run by Cuck Fletchbag and his sidekick Lardass Flahr.

Maybe we give him more than 5 games of his NCAA career, in which he already has 3 goals and 1 assist in 5 games as a freshman, and also see what happens with the other prospects who were available, before we cast judgment on that one.

 

[Magua]

Can the Flyers "east-west" themselves out of their bottom 5 offense?

 

[flyerslducks]

Atkinson isn't on IR or LTIR, so they can open a roster spot for Brown just by putting Cam on one of those.

is there a max number of cap that can be on ltir or something? I'm awful with cap stuff lol

 

[Magua]

Holmgren was A culprit. He was not and is not THE culprit, no matter how many times that you say that he is.

Again, being given a "win now" mandate and coming up with the results that Fletcher has done is an indictment on Fletcher no matter how many times you deny it.

No, this is not me saying that Fletcher is the so called main culprit.

EDIT: You defended ALL of these teams for years. What changed?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Flyer lurker]

If the best you can do with 5OA is draft the next Scott Laughton, then your team must be run by Cuck Fletchbag and his sidekick Lardass Flahr.

Aren't u being harsh? Its not like flyers could have had Boldy or caufield and passed them up.

 

[Bigkarl]

not one person here could have called this..

not one...

Just wait until we see playoff Risto though

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Just wait until we see playoff Risto though

Is he going to get traded to a playoff team? Oh wait no sensible team would trade for that contract

 

[Hextallent63]

WOOOO!

I swear I try not to be negative ALL the time, but I swear to everything that is holy this is the biggest piece of trash/loaded up ass kiss/delusional/stupid/waste of keystrokes/corporate/dumbass shit ever posted on the internet. I'm serious, I spell checked this hole post.

 

[renberg]

I swear I try not to be negative ALL the time, but I swear to everything that is holy this is the biggest piece of trash/loaded up ass kiss/delusional/stupid/waste of keystrokes/corporate/dumbass shit ever posted on the internet. I'm serious, I spell checked this hole post.

Sarcasm by COC

 

[Hextallent63]

Also, if anyone unironically tries to pretend this roster is run on merit or that Torts isn’t lying about accountability, show them this.

These lines kill that argument so fast it hurts.

(He also got the order wrong of the bottom 6)

in a reasonable world where common sense applies a little more then it does these days, it wouldnt be too crazy to think torts is calling out chuck with some of the things he has done. for instance, when everyone but torts was talking hodgson, and torts pretty much had nothing to do with him after seeing him a couple times.

Sarcasm by COC

really? i hope so. if that is the case i apologize for being a full grown waaaaaa waaaaaa baby.

 

[Hextallent63]

Frost is the stupidest player on the team.

It could be seen long ago that he wasn’t going to really get a proper development path for this team. Why he didn’t tell his agent he wants to be relocated earlier in his career is beyond me.

Shit for brains, and I dislike him for it. He’s wasting not only our time, but his own at this point.

i just looked up his agent, some dude from out west named bob fletcher.

 

[Hextallent63]

Frost is the stupidest player on the team.

It could be seen long ago that he wasn’t going to really get a proper development path for this team. Why he didn’t tell his agent he wants to be relocated earlier in his career is beyond me.

Shit for brains, and I dislike him for it. He’s wasting not only our time, but his own at this point.

i disagree respectfully. frost is suffering the same way the defensemen did the last 2 seasons, especially with yeo. sending him out there, over coaching him, and trying to have him play the game to the worst detriment of his talents. dont get me wrong, not saying hes a world beater or anything, but like someone said the other day, i could see him moving on and being a strong part of a teams middle six. and of course, just my humble opinion.

 

[wasup]

Fair comment... but I would add that "hitting" on a draft pick is Scott Laughton.

Giroux was beyond that - they found a gem at his draft position.

So, if the Flyers just "hit" on their picks, then yes, draft position is absolutely key for "hitting" on players that should be at a very high level. And those guys are usually in the top 10, but really top 5.

They also need to find more gems... other than Giroux, who is there? Ghost is absolutely one. Anyone else? Hart? I think he was already considered the best goalie of the draft. I like Lindblom and he turned out great for a 5th rounder, but he's a middling player that you can find with enough regularity.

We need one or two major steals like a Brayden Point, Sebastian Aho, Nikita Kucherov, Ondrej Palat.

Flyers just haven't done that at all, really. TK was a relative gem for his draft position, but he's nowhere near the guys I just mentioned.

No they are not just top ten that's what i'm trying to point out . Just look at Boston , MacAvoy 14th, Pasta 25th , Bergeron 45th , Marchand 71st . Hit on your picks don't be so caught up so much in just thinking we need top 5 .

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm the one who identified Holmgren as the main culprit.

The only decision of consequence was trading for and extending Risto, which I disliked as much as the rest of you.

The rest, inconsequential, the real problem was Hextall's drafts and Holmgren insisting in 2019 to be competitive.

Duchene or Hayes, the result would have been similar. Driven by Holmgren's mandate, with Patrick AWOL, not adding a center the summer of 2019 meant you might as well clean house and hire a HC for the rebuild, not a "win now" guy like AV.

Niskanen and Braun had little impact long-term, Braun cost a 2nd and 3rd, got them a 3rd and whatever they get this TDL.
Even Ellis, on LTIR is more of an inconvenience, Patrick and Myers are marginal.

You could have gotten value in 2018 if you cleaned house, by 2021, with the COVID cap and age, only G and Couts had value, and trading Couts would have required Scott over ruling his advisors and committing to a rebuild. Fat chance.

Thank god they hired Torts, the best thing he's done is make it clear they're rebuilding, saying it to the media, giving the FO nowhere to hide from the truth. Four years too late, but hopefully this means the end of the influence of certain senior advisors.

Clarke. It's Clarke. At some point you need to accept that the problem is Clarke. Homer is a Clarke boy. Fletcher is a Clarke boy. Clarke is currently the one setting the organizational tone.

 

[freakydallas13]

Fletcher could have done a better job, but no one could have done a good job.
Because the assets weren't there to reload (unless you did a Zito and traded 3-4 1st rd picks), and the FO wasn't willing to rebuild.

No HC was going to get much more out of the 2019-20 than AV, a better coach might have avoided a meltdown in 2021-22, but it would have simply left the team mired in mediocrity as the top players aged out. At least AV got us a top 5 pick!

They had to sign a center in the summer of 2019 with Patrick damaged goods, or accept they weren't competitive - the only options were Hayes or Duchene.

It's been like watching a slow motion car crash, that you saw coming once they ran the stop sign.

Bro, "no one could have done a good job" (even if you believe this, which I don't) doesn't absolve "Fletcher has done a f***ing awful job".

This what'about'ism defence of Charles Entertainment Fletcher has to stop.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The Flyers got Claude Giroux with a #22 pick then proceeded to do nothing with that advantageous draft coup for the next decade plus. You need luck but you need more than just that & you also need to put yourself in better positions where you’re just not relying on just pure luck.

They’re making the same mistakes now that they did back then.

 

[deadhead]

The only serious mistake Fletcher made was Risto, and that was a bad one. No one questions that.

The others, meh. The only player that could of garnered a haul was Couts and that would have been an admission that they're rebuilding, not reloading. EVen then, 2 late 1st rd picks or a 1st and a solid prospect was not going to turn this franchise around.

I don't even think Torts has an underlying agenda, but by exposing Risto, and making it clear this team isn't good enough to compete for years, he's undermining Fletcher and the senior advisors - just by being honest with the media.

The next GM will have the advantage of zero pressure to deliver his first few years - the biggest mistake Hextall made was to make the playoffs, had the Flyers really sucked his first couple years (and had he sold off more pieces early) he would have had time and the higher draft picks to actually rebuild the team.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Don't worry so much about the draft position all the time . Were was Giroux drafted , were was Patrick drafted . TK , Barzel , Kyle Conner Hart etc . It's more important to hit on the picks you have than constantly focusing on the draft position . I don't give a shit if we end up drafting 14th over all just hit on the pick you have .

I can't agree with this. It's partly why the Flyers doom themselves to being a shit team.

Having a better draft position ensures more favourable odds toward extracting top talent in the draft. Teams with good scouting/development departments can hit on true upper tier players later on - but the Flyers are bottom of the barrel for either department.

An organization that hasn't found a dynamic forward that consistently can create/carry offense since Claude Giroux who was drafted in 2006 should definitely worry more about draft position, because they won't get it done unless top talent is served to them on a silver platter.

This obsession with winning by overwhelming depth, winning by committee is so ass backwards. The pendulum has swung too far in the philosophy. When was the last time the Flyers had an exciting player enter this league, that seemingly find ways to be inserted every season? Claude Giroux?

You don't win this way, no matter how hard they try to bullshit us otherwise. Effort only goes so far.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The only serious mistake Fletcher made was Risto, and that was a bad one. No one questions that.

The others, meh. The only player that could of garnered a haul was Couts and that would have been an admission that they're rebuilding, not reloading. EVen then, 2 late 1st rd picks or a 1st and a solid prospect was not going to turn this franchise around.

I don't even think Torts has an underlying agenda, but by exposing Risto, and making it clear this team isn't good enough to compete for years, he's undermining Fletcher and the senior advisors - just by being honest with the media.

The next GM will have the advantage of zero pressure to deliver his first few years - the biggest mistake Hextall made was to make the playoffs, had the Flyers really sucked his first couple years (and had he sold off more pieces early) he would have had time and the higher draft picks to actually rebuild the team.

If Risto was the only serious mistake the team has made then they'd be in great shape.

He's made many other mistakes.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Clarke. It's Clarke. At some point you need to accept that the problem is Clarke. Homer is a Clarke boy. Fletcher is a Clarke boy. Clarke is currently the one setting the organizational tone.

I actually think it stems from Snider. The way this organization is run borders on incestuous.

I'm too lazy to dig up my old list, but the fact remains other than Hextall/Pryor this organization employees men for life no matter how they perform in their jobs. You'd think after a decade of failure there would be some turnover, but it just isn't the case. Adding a few new hires, while continuing to employ incompetence means nothing.

They run this like a family, and not a business. I am sure Clarke was front, and centre pushing for a return to the old ways - and this identity. There actually isn't even a problem with it, nobody would hate a talented team - that plays an aggressive game. The problem lies in undervaluing actual talent, and the sick fascination with neanderthal effort. ASF openly stated Fletcher had to more or less be talked into the hiring of Torts, that other members of the Flyers were pushing for his employment.

In the end - they are so damn proud, that a continued refusal to rebuild leads to exactly what we see today. A low ceiling team that has to market its HC as the primary attraction.

 

[Cody Webster]

Litrilly no single person on earth has said that Tortorella was Fletcher's puppet.

Nice strawman.

One of many strawmans today

 

[freakydallas13]

If Risto was the only serious mistake the team has made then they'd be in great shape.

He's made many other mistakes.

Calling the Fisto situation "bad" is like saying Ronald Wayne selling 10% of Apple for $800 is "bad".

It's catastrophically bad, one of the worst deals ever.

 

[Deadpool8812]

The only serious mistake Fletcher made was Risto, and that was a bad one. No one questions that.

Lolz....

If that was the only serious mistake, we wouldn't be where we are right now. We are in cap hell with one of the worst rosters in the league, with also one of the worst prospect pools. We also aren't rebuilding and are actually trying to make the playoffs.

With just average goaltending (not Hart), we would probably only have 1 or 2 wins this season.

How you think Fletcher has only made one serious mistake, is beyond me. There isn't one single fan out there that should be looking at the organization and saying "yeah, we are actually in good shape."

 

[deadhead]

The other moves had little impact, Ghost was part of the Risto fiasco, and he clashed with AV.
Voracek has become a bad player with another year left at $8.25M, slipped last year and is far worse this year. xGFrel -18.13,
Ghost is padding his scoring stats but is a liability at 5x5.
The rest, who cares? Raffl, NAK, Myers, Patrick, Friedman, Bunnaman, Vorobyev - just shows how little actual talent they had versus the hype.
2nd and 3rd for Braun has become a 3rd and ??? at this year's TDL.
If they kept G, Voracek and Ghost, they'd still be bad, they'd be that 2018-19 team but four years older.

Fletcher may have not made a lot of good moves - but the problem was the attempt to "aggressively reload" by patching holes instead of facing reality. And that was Holmgren/Clarke doing their wormtongue thang with Scott.