2022/23 Roster Thread XII: The Twelfth Night, a comedy play

[VladDrag]

Speaking of two year olds with a fake toy phone…

When we got to our hotel room a couple weeks back Thatcher Venmo, who is now 2, went to the phone and picked it up, put it to his ear, and said hello.

1) we don’t have a phone with a cord at home. This is likely the first time he’s seen one in person.
2) he has never said “hello.”

HCette and I were mystified and dying of laughter.

Probably remembering their previous life prior to reincarnation.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The idea that Hextall’s plan failed after 4 years is just ridiculous.

German Rubtsov, Jay O'Brien, Nolan Patrick, and Morgan Frost as first round centers. I'd call that a failure for a draft-based plan. Especially with 2nd rounders like NAK, Laberge, Ratcliffe, and Ginning. His only 2nd rounder to hit was Hart. Jury is out on Allison but he's 25 with 10 points in 26 career NHL games.

Too many complete busts. Not enough big hits.

 

[dragonoffrost]

German Rubtsov, Jay O'Brien, Nolan Patrick, and Morgan Frost as first round centers. I'd call that a failure for a draft-based plan. Especially with 2nd rounders like NAK, Laberge, Ratcliffe, and Ginning. His only 2nd rounder to hit was Hart. Jury is out on Allison but he's 25 with 10 points in 26 career NHL games.

Too many complete busts. Not enough big hits.

Yet we have people saying Risto and DeAngelo can still develop....

 

[Beef Invictus]

German Rubtsov, Jay O'Brien, Nolan Patrick, and Morgan Frost as first round centers. I'd call that a failure for a draft-based plan. Especially with 2nd rounders like NAK, Laberge, Ratcliffe, and Ginning. His only 2nd rounder to hit was Hart. Jury is out on Allison but he's 25 with 10 points in 26 career NHL games.

Too many complete busts. Not enough big hits.

Far more hits than Fletcher, so what does that say about your boy? He's done a worse job than the guy you blame all his mistakes on.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Ignoring development, I’d say the scouting has been generally shit over both of the last two GM’s. There is clearly a shift in prioritization under Fletcher for the type of player they covet…

But why are all scouts still currently employed? Fletcher is a shit GM imo, but it’s far too easy to lie the blame only there.

This scouting department is trash, yet the retain jobs through multiple GM’s. Rats hiding under the house.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Woof. It's not a good thing that it's a dog fight every night for them...

 

[Rebels57]

Woof. It's not a good thing that it's a dog fight every night for them...

God I wish we could fast-forward to the final standings for this shit heap of a season.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Woof. It's not a good thing that it's a dog fight every night for them...

So they admit they have to basically struggle every game? Not the best thing to advertise.

 

[deadhead]

Torts is as advertised, he doesn't pull punches or let the FO off the hook - notice he hasn't blamed "injuries" b/c he expect whoever plays to produce.

 

[deadhead]

Torts on Ristolainen: "I'm not looking for goals, points. I just want him to be sound defensively. One of the biggest things he brings is physical play, but I want to see him stop plays. It's nice to get a hit in, but I want to see the play stopped."

All that nonsense about Torts wanting hits, etc. He may be the first HC to dismiss Risto's hits and focus on doing what actually wins games.

Torts on Sanheim's start to the season: "Inconsistent. Certainly need more offense out of him. I know he's trying on the defensive part of the game, as far as closing plays out quicker. I know he's trying. But it's been an inconsistent start for him. Just being honest with you."

Right on target, I think Sanheim has been pressing, trying to justify his new contract.

“When you’re building a team, you’re not only looking to build and grow your players, you’re also looking for players that you simply don’t think are gonna be part of it,” Tortorella said. “That separates itself as you go through all this process here, so that’s part of our job.”

And he praises players as well as blasting them:

“I thought we had more forechecking in that game that we’ve had a lot of our others,” Tortorella said Monday. “And I felt a lot of that came from more of our depth guys. I thought Frosty’s line had it. I thought (Wade Allison) had a good game holding onto pucks. (So did Lukáš) Sedlák.”

Why has he been hard on Allison? Because he makes too many bad cross ice passes that lead to turnovers.
He gave him an earful on the bench, Allison responded and Torts was happy.
To err is human, to repeat errors is to end up in LHV.

“Ally’s gonna play hard. I have never had a problem with his effort,” Tortorella said. “I just want him to understand where his strength of the game is. And that is playing north and doing some of the things he did in that game, as far as (holding) onto the pucks down below the hash.”

“It’s the only way he’s gonna stay in a lineup, is if he plays north. He starts playing east/west, he’s gonna be east/west right out of the lineup,” Tortorella cracked. “Just know thyself. That’s all I want. Know thyself and things will fit.”

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts is as advertised, he doesn't pull punches or let the FO off the hook - notice he hasn't blamed "injuries" b/c he expect whoever plays to produce.

You advertised him as a secret offensive genius who would be playing all the prospects.

He's distinctly not as advertised.

 

[deadhead]

You advertised him as a secret offensive genius who would be playing all the prospects.

He's distinctly not as advertised.

No, typical Beef imagination.

I said his teams generate scoring chances for both teams, with an aggressive forecheck that creates scoring chances but can lead to odd man rushes the other way. That's exactly what we've seen, except right now they're still working on both the forecheck and finishing plays.

I've pointed out that he gradually works prospects into the lineup, did so in both TB and CBJ.
He doesn't play players based on their draft position but on their on-ice production.
But he's not patient with repeated mistakes "say something once, why say it again?"

He improves teams by improving players, CBJ made a big jump his second season, the only FA addition was Gagner, who was awful in Philly the previous season.
TB made some additions, but none major, again, improvement came from raising the play of players in the organization.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

So they admit they have to basically struggle every game? Not the best thing to advertise.

he flat out said the roster has no offensive zone skill players..

hahaaaa Flutch nice job..

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, typical Beef imagination.

I said his teams generate scoring chances for both teams, with an aggressive forecheck that creates scoring chances but can lead to odd man rushes the other way. That's exactly what we've seen, except right now they're still working on both the forecheck and finishing plays.

I've pointed out that he gradually works prospects into the lineup, did so in both TB and CBJ.
He doesn't play players based on their draft position but on their on-ice production.
But he's not patient with repeated mistakes "say something once, why say it again?"

He improves teams by improving players, CBJ made a big jump his second season, the only FA addition was Gagner, who was awful in Philly the previous season.
TB made some additions, but none major, again, improvement came from raising the play of players in the organization.

No, you argued completely contrary to my own argument that his teams don't produce much offense. Because they don't. They don't really score. You tried to present his offense as far more effective than it is.

What it really is, is board-grinding defense in the offensive zone.

He didn't add Gagner. He was not the GM. He's been quite patient with repeated mistakes from the players that are clearly his favorites, even without corresponding production to cancel their shortcomings. Whose play is being raised? What is the end result? Not much, for the last 18 years.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

he flat out said the roster has no offensive zone skill players..

hahaaaa Flutch nice job..

I get there are key injuries, but if you don't have any real secondary scoring players that can help make up for some of it, then you made your team very f***ing poorly.

 

[SuchySays]

Torts has been fantastic. Turned a 70 loss team into a playoff contender and Cup contender with a healthy Hart.

 

[flyerslducks]

Can we just play sandstrom more so we can lose lol

 

[Curufinwe]

Was reading an article about the Coyotes front office and saw this:
“Larry Pleau is the senior adviser to the GM. He was the GM when the St. Louis Blues began their rebuild in 2006, which eventually culminated in a Stanley Cup championship 13 years later.”

Not trying to use the Blues as a model example by any means, just pointing out how long a rebuild can actually take to reach the ultimate goal. Not everyone that contributes to a cup win or competitiveness has to be drafted either, but the effects of stockpiling picks and development of talent can be seen long after picks are made.

The idea that Hextall’s plan failed after 4 years is just ridiculous. The current front office objective to undo as much as they could is going to make it really difficult to evaluate how effective the long term benefits might’ve been

Part of the plan has to be to stay employed long enough to see it come to fruition.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Can we just play sandstrom more so we can lose lol

The minute Hart tears his groin, or whatever his chronic issues kind of seem to be... I'll salute you from a virtual distance.

Not developing dick all anyway, so what's exactly the point of this year? The vets are playing "harder", but can anyone really say Zamula, York, Frost, and Allison have been handled well?

Tale as old as time.

 

[deadhead]

Was reading an article about the Coyotes front office and saw this:
“Larry Pleau is the senior adviser to the GM. He was the GM when the St. Louis Blues began their rebuild in 2006, which eventually culminated in a Stanley Cup championship 13 years later.”

Not trying to use the Blues as a model example by any means, just pointing out how long a rebuild can actually take to reach the ultimate goal. Not everyone that contributes to a cup win or competitiveness has to be drafted either, but the effects of stockpiling picks and development of talent can be seen long after picks are made.

The idea that Hextall’s plan failed after 4 years is just ridiculous. The current front office objective to undo as much as they could is going to make it really difficult to evaluate how effective the long term benefits might’ve been

It's a continuing process, Holmgren declared the rebuild over in 2018, which has set the Flyers back four years.
Ironically, by hiring Torts, they're re-started the rebuild.

But they haven't got rid of Hextall's picks that weren't flops, all the prospects who've departed were whiffs, Patrick (#2), Friedman (3rd), NAK (2nd), Myers (UDFA), Twarynski (3rd), Bunnaman (4th), Rubtsov (1st), Laberge (2nd). All are out of hockey or in minor roles on their new teams.

But they still have Hart, TK, Sanheim, Provorov, Farabee and are now playing Frost, N Cates, Allison, Laczynski, Zamula, Sandstrom with Lycksell, Ersson, Wylie, Ratcliffe, Hogberg, Ginning in LHV.

They also have the rights to JOB, who'll probably be unsigned, garnering a 2024 2nd, and Vorobyev, who is having a breakout season in his third KHL season (shades of Sedlak) and I think might be finished with his current contract after this season.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's a continuing process, Holmgren declared the rebuild over in 2018, which has set the Flyers back four years.
Ironically, by hiring Torts, they're re-started the rebuild.

But they haven't got rid of Hextall's picks that weren't flops, all the prospects who've departed were whiffs, Patrick (#2), Friedman (3rd), NAK (2nd), Myers (UDFA), Twarynski (3rd), Bunnaman (4th), Rubtsov (1st), Laberge (2nd). All are out of hockey or in minor roles on their new teams.

But they still have Hart, TK, Sanheim, Provorov, Farabee and are now playing Frost, N Cates, Allison, Laczynski, Zamula, Sandstrom with Lycksell, Ersson, Wylie, Ratcliffe, Hogberg, Ginning in LHV.

They also have the rights to JOB, who'll probably be unsigned, garnering a 2024 2nd, and Vorobyev, who is having a breakout season in his third KHL season (shades of Sedlak) and I think might be finished with his current contract after this season.

Tortorella is not the GM. He is not running a rebuild. He doesn't decide the roster.

 

[FlyerNutter]

A rebuild. In what world

Flyers don’t rebuild.

 

[landsbergfan]

Part of the plan has to be to stay employed long enough to see it come to fruition.

I’m not even suggesting the same guy has to stick around to finish the rebuild. Larry Pleau wasn’t the guy that won a cup.

Really just pointing out how ridiculous it is to say the plan was a failure and do a 180 after such a short period of time.

 

[Striiker]

Really just pointing out how ridiculous it is to say the plan was a failure and do a 180 after such a short period of time.

Especially considering how badly the next guy f***ed up and undid almost all the progress that was made .

It's like Person A is making a cake and while it's still in the oven Person B takes it out, pours gasoline on it, lights it on fire. Then people try to absolve Person B of all fault by saying Person A didn't mix the batter properly.

 

[wankstifier]