2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!

[ponder719]

The question I really want to have Chuck answer is "Given the mandate for an aggressive retool, knowing that free agency opened one week after the draft, what was the thought process behind trading for Tony DeAngelo's rights at the draft, rather than waiting until free agency opened to see what players might have been available? What resulted in the decision that DeAngelo's rights were worth forgoing any of the high-end possibilities available in free agency?"

I know he'd probably still try and weasel out of that, but I'd love to force him on the record on that point in particular, so the Authentics can hear him explain why we have DeAngelo, Braun, Seeler, and Deslauriers instead of Gaudreau.

 

[sa cyred]

My other concern is I feel like Scott & Fletcher are really close. Like Hakstol / Hextall close. I dont have faith that Scott will make the call that is needed to be done. Cause even if we suck and get Bedard (or Michkov or whoever), I can see dumb moves being made that hurts us next year.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Posted on Chiclets' socials.

 

[Cody Webster]

Posted on Chiclets' socials.
View attachment 569306

Was just coming to post this...lol

 

[BiggE]

This team is so bad that even if everyone stayed healthy and Ellis returned to play all 82 games, they’re a 88-90 point team at best and picking in the 12-14 range. Now just subtract Ellis and they fall to 75-80 and are finish in the 24-28 spot in the league. But now let’s be realistic and factor in both the usual injuries and Cuck’s ineptitude and I see a team that finishes dead last in the East with 62-66 points.

They probably still finish ahead of Chicago and Arizona (though one can hope) but at least their pick will be top 5.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He said the phones in their ticket offices were buzzing yesterday with people trying to back out of their tickets.

 

[flyersnorth]

I made it quite clear yesterday that I was not pleased & my belief was shaken, & that I think Fletcher is hanging by a string.

If this team looks terrible in December, I’ll have zero problem sending him exactly the way of Hexy.

Today, after my immediate disappointment at not landing a big shiny name had simmered down, I looked at the situation more pragmatically.

Does it suck? Yes.

But I greatly overestimated the cap they’d have to work with.

I figured JVR & Ellis were $13M you’d have free.

But if we all agree next year they are not a legit contender, then it’s stupid to attach a 1st rd (& more) to clear JVR $7M which will clear itself after this admittedly non-contending season.

And Ellis, well, they unfortunately have to budget as if he will come back. Which sucks. I wanted to act like you could write him off forever & immediately invest his $6M, but they can’t.

I largely agree with you. In the absence of any articulate plan other than "aggressive retool" with mucho "blank cheques," I resigned myself to the fact that a rebuild was not in the works.

If they got JG as part of an "aggressive retool" then so be it. I'm tired of watching middling hacks impersonate hockey players.

The caveat here being that they approached this offseason in the worst possible fashion, especially knowing that Gaudreau wanted to come here. The series of moves over the past 4-5 months just makes zero sense.

But they did need insurance for him at #1 RD, which is hard as hell to find, so that required DeAngelo at $5M.

I think this is where we differ a bit. I'm not against having a #1RHD replacement for Ellis. It really seemed like Fletch was frustrated as f*** with the Ellis situation in the presser yesterday.

I'm just confused that Fletcher would target a guy with a known character problem and a history of friction with teammates, when his talking points have consistently been getting high character players, and high talent players under 25.

It's just so disconnected.

In the end, I'd rather not replace Ellis if nothing out there made sense (and if they had no intention on signing or whiffed on JG) because then you're facing a different reality. You're facing a rebuild / treading water rather than being competitive, so it's a great opportunity to evaluate assets rather than waste assets and draft picks to acquire questionable players that will only serve to bump you further away from top 3 draft pick, yet not be even remotely in the conversation for playoffs.

Lindblom for one more year at $3M? Or Deslauriers for 4 years at $1.75M and Braun?

What was even the point of those moves?

 

[Beef Invictus]

I fully believe this too. I actually do believe that Chuck thinks this is a contending team. He thinks a top 4 of Prov, Sanhiem, Risto, DeAngelo are all top level players. I truely think he thinks it was all injuries last year. He thinks a 4th line of Mac-Brown-Des will make other teams cower in fear. He thinks a Cout - Hayes down the middle is one of the best out there.

The rest of us look at the roster and laugh. I honestly dont think Fletcher is a smart man. Nice guy? Sure. But I dont think he is extremely bright.

He traded Leddy for Barker and Burns for Setoguchi.

He has no idea how to assess any player accurately.

 

[flyersnorth]

Wow, I've never seen such united vitriol and hatred towards the team. Legendary.

You did it, Fletch! You united the fanbase!

 

[flyersnorth]

He said the phones in their ticket offices were buzzing yesterday with people trying to back out of their tickets.

This is a nice little gem from the article...

Since the Flyers were eliminated from the playoffs by the Islanders in the summer of 2020, Fletcher has traded 11 players (Michael Raffl, Erik Gustaffson, Nolan Patrick, Phil Myers, Shayne Gostisbehere, Robert Hagg, Jake Voracek, Claude Giroux, Connor Bunnaman, and German Rubtsov), and 12 draft picks in exchange for five players (Ryan Ellis, Rasmus Ristolainen, Cam Atkinson, Owen Tippett and Tony DeAngelo) and eight draft picks (three of which have been used on Zayde Wisdom, Elliot Desnoyers, and Ty Murchison).​

​

When you look at that list, have the Flyers improved themselves since reaching the second round two seasons ago?​

​

Hardly. You can argue that it’s only a slight downgrade,​

​

As for the free agents brought in or re-signed, Brian Elliott, Braun (twice), Samuel Morin, Martin Jones, Keith Yandle, Nate Thompson, Nick Seeler, Gerry Mayhew, Sandstrom (twice), Grosenick and Deslauriers.​

​

Does this have the look of a team that is trying to win? At all?​

​

It’s a mish mash. A combination of some guys you would consider nice pieces for a contender and a bunch of filler.​

​

The Flyers roster has been put together like a toddler being asked to put all 64 Crayola crayons back in their original spot in the box. They might get a few right, but mostly they are going to be wrong fits, or partly broken.​

 

[FlyerNutter]

He said the phones in their ticket offices were buzzing yesterday with people trying to back out of their tickets.

About damn time.

More of this will be needed, but even if I disagree with him at times - he gets respect from me for finally writing this shit. Long overdue, but a positive step.

 

[Psuhockey]

I wonder if Dave Scott will be the first to go.

 

[Danko]

I think it’s funny that the response to yesterdays absolute shit show was to leak the potential signing of the coach that tried to fist fight evander kane, half naked.

 

[FLYguy3911]

You don't get bonus points for being the most balanced team. Gaudreau is more valuable than any bottom of the roster they could assemble. If you decide to pivot away from committing term to a 30+ contract, that's one thing. To not even have the option is the problem. HE WENT TO f***ING COLUMBUS.

 

[SuchySays]

Damn that rat creature is calling Chunk a liar!

 

[pit]

This team is so bad that even if everyone stayed healthy and Ellis returned to play all 82 games, they’re a 88-90 point team at best and picking in the 12-14 range. Now just subtract Ellis and they fall to 75-80 and are finish in the 24-28 spot in the league. But now let’s be realistic and factor in both the usual injuries and Cuck’s ineptitude and I see a team that finishes dead last in the East with 62-66 points.

They probably still finish ahead of Chicago and Arizona (though one can hope) but at least their pick will be top 5.

I fully expect that we will do worse than Chicago in the standings but they will leap us with lotto balls ala Kane/JVR. However, it won't be us going from 1-2 but 3-4 and out of range of the best three available players.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I wonder if Dave Scott will be the first to go.

The thing is, a CEO's job is to make the company as much money as possible. The numbers will be very telling with the upcoming season and will probably stand out pretty big to him and hopefully do the right thing. But who the f*** knows.

 

[deadhead]

This is a nice little gem from the article...

Since the Flyers were eliminated from the playoffs by the Islanders in the summer of 2020, Fletcher has traded 11 players (Michael Raffl, Erik Gustaffson, Nolan Patrick, Phil Myers, Shayne Gostisbehere, Robert Hagg, Jake Voracek, Claude Giroux, Connor Bunnaman, and German Rubtsov), and 12 draft picks in exchange for five players (Ryan Ellis, Rasmus Ristolainen, Cam Atkinson, Owen Tippett and Tony DeAngelo) and eight draft picks (three of which have been used on Zayde Wisdom, Elliot Desnoyers, and Ty Murchison).​

​

When you look at that list, have the Flyers improved themselves since reaching the second round two seasons ago?​

​

Hardly. You can argue that it’s only a slight downgrade,​

​

As for the free agents brought in or re-signed, Brian Elliott, Braun (twice), Samuel Morin, Martin Jones, Keith Yandle, Nate Thompson, Nick Seeler, Gerry Mayhew, Sandstrom (twice), Grosenick and Deslauriers.​

​

Does this have the look of a team that is trying to win? At all?​

​

It’s a mish mash. A combination of some guys you would consider nice pieces for a contender and a bunch of filler.​

​

The Flyers roster has been put together like a toddler being asked to put all 64 Crayola crayons back in their original spot in the box. They might get a few right, but mostly they are going to be wrong fits, or partly broken.​

It's what's being going on since 2012. Treading water. Now a decade later, 4 post season appearances, 1 second rd win, and they're still mediocre (they're better than last year with Couts and Hayes healthy and some of the kids playing, but still mediocre).

That's what happens when you can't commit to a strategy and just muddle through, year to year.

Now a conspiracy theorist might think Fletcher sabotaged this offseason to avoid trading picks and signing long-term deals, but why trade for and extend Risto? Unless there's some weird shit going on behind the seasons (picture a struggle in the cockpit over the rudder).

 

[Hurricane28]

Nice little subtle shot at management

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I largely agree with you. In the absence of any articulate plan other than "aggressive retool" with mucho "blank cheques," I resigned myself to the fact that a rebuild was not in the works.

If they got JG as part of an "aggressive retool" then so be it. I'm tired of watching middling hacks impersonate hockey players.

The caveat here being that they approached this offseason in the worst possible fashion, especially knowing that Gaudreau wanted to come here. The series of moves over the past 4-5 months just makes zero sense.



I think this is where we differ a bit. I'm not against having a #1RHD replacement for Ellis. It really seemed like Fletch was frustrated as f*** with the Ellis situation in the presser yesterday.

I'm just confused that Fletcher would target a guy with a known character problem and a history of friction with teammates, when his talking points have consistently been getting high character players, and high talent players under 25.

It's just so disconnected.

In the end, I'd rather not replace Ellis if nothing out there made sense (and if they had no intention on signing or whiffed on JG) because then you're facing a different reality. You're facing a rebuild / treading water rather than being competitive, so it's a great opportunity to evaluate assets rather than waste assets and draft picks to acquire questionable players that will only serve to bump you further away from top 3 draft pick, yet not be even remotely in the conversation for playoffs.

Lindblom for one more year at $3M? Or Deslauriers for 4 years at $1.75M and Braun?

What was even the point of those moves?

I’m going to go out on a limb, though, & say they’re better than people think.

DeAngelo is a good player. He’s a significant upgrade to their defense. He’s controversial, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a pretty big upgrade.

Full season of an older, more mature York, playing the correct side? Also an upgrade.

A D of (however you mix them):
Provorov-DeAngelo
Sanheim-Risto
York-Braun

Is not bad. And I’ve gotta think Provorov sharpens back up under Torts & Shaw.

On offense, having a healthy Couturier AND a healthy Hayes changes everything.
And they’ve got a multitude of young players where it’s put up or shut up, & hopefully some do. They also have some prospect depth knocking on the door who could surprise if a younger vet doesn’t cut it.

They’ve got Torts. They made a few changes to help set a hard-to-play against mindset.

It’s a team that could gel together if they get a few good breaks instead of only bad ones.

So, yeah, I wanted the excitement of opening a Johnny Hockey present. There’s also a pretty good chance in a couple years it’s a blessing they don’t have it.

This team could end up with a young, nothing to lose, pain in the ass mindset with no superstar but keeps improving.

I’ve seen it happen.

Or, Chuck’s out by the New Year & we’re hoping for Bedard.

I’ve decided to take the hopeful perspective instead of the miserable one, as frustrating in-the-moment as yesterday was.

One thing is for sure, though: They damn well regret that stupid “aggressive retool” phrase.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Man that article is awesome,,,,

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's what's being going on since 2012. Treading water. Now a decade later, 4 post season appearances, 1 second rd win, and they're still mediocre (they're better than last year with Couts and Hayes healthy and some of the kids playing, but still mediocre).

That's what happens when you can't commit to a strategy and just muddle through, year to year.

Now a conspiracy theorist might think Fletcher sabotaged this offseason to avoid trading picks and signing long-term deals, but why trade for and extend Risto? Unless there's some weird shit going on behind the seasons (picture a struggle in the cockpit over the rudder).

There is no struggle. Fletcher is firmly in control. This kind of pointless, no-plan GM style is what Fletcher has always been. No part of this is new.

 

[bennysflyers16]

There is no struggle. Fletcher is firmly in control. This kind of pointless, no-plan GM style is what Fletcher has always been. No part of this is new.

Isnt he the Assistant Governor ? There are prob 35 guys in the whole league with less power than him.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

About damn time.

More of this will be needed, but even if I disagree with him at times - he gets respect from me for finally writing this shit. Long overdue, but a positive step.

I think some of these guys are also motivated by the fact that the Flyers hurt their business for next year & possibly longer by what they did or didn’t do yesterday. So fan engagement is likely to noticeably decrease going forward which puts their standing potentially on shaky ground.

 

[Hurricane28]

I’m going to go out on a limb, though, & say they’re better than people think.

DeAngelo is a good player. He’s a significant upgrade to their defense. He’s controversial, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a pretty big upgrade.

Full season of an older, more mature York, playing the correct side? Also an upgrade.

A D of (however you mix them):
Provorov-DeAngelo
Sanheim-Risto
York-Braun

Is not bad. And I’ve gotta think Provorov sharpens back up under Torts & Shaw.

On offense, having a healthy Couturier AND a healthy Hayes changes everything.
And they’ve got a multitude of young players where it’s put up or shut up, & hopefully some do. They also have some prospect depth knocking on the door who could surprise if a younger vet doesn’t cut it.

They’ve got Torts. They made a few changes to help set a hard-to-play against mindset.

It’s a team that could gel together if they get a few good breaks instead of only bad ones.

So, yeah, I wanted the excitement of opening a Johnny Hockey present. There’s also a pretty good chance in a couple years it’s a blessing they don’t have it.

This team could end up with a young, nothing to lose, pain in the ass mindset with no superstar but keeps improving.

I’ve seen it happen.

Or, Chuck’s out by the New Year & we’re hoping for Bedard.

I’ve decided to take the hopeful perspective instead of the miserable one, as frustrating in-the-moment as yesterday was.

One thing is for sure, though: They damn well regret that stupid “aggressive retool” phrase.

If they were able to land Gaudreau, maybe I could buy if things broke their way, they would be decent. But this roster is bad, though not bad enough to be in the Bedard sweepstakes. No man's land is the worst place to be