2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!

[Flyerfan4life]

Jojo off the top rope...

post of the day ^^^

Hakstol is a bad coach who made the same mistakes last season with Seattle as he was making in his tenure with the Flyers. The hakshell lives on

but the Hakshell was a myth i hear..

hahaaa..

"get in ur f***in SHELL"...

 

[Beef Invictus]

It was a "last hurrah" move. They had ridden G, Couts, Voracek, Provorov and Ghost through the last decade and were barely a playoff team - so either blow it up in the summer of 2019 or go for it, and with Holmgren still in charge, which strategy did you think they were going to pursue?

G gradually declined after 2019-20, Voracek has slipped substantially, Niskanen retired, Braun slipped to 3rd pair status.
Patrick and Frost never emerged, Myers turned out to be pyrite, the other young players simply couldn't pick up the slack.
Injuries and bad goalie play exposed that the window had closed.

Which is why firing Fletcher isn't nearly enough, until the FO, starting with Scott or his replacement, realistically assess this team, they'll just ask the next GM to make "win now" moves - even if better executed, they don't have the assets to successfully follow that strategy - and a Gorton or Rutherford type might strip their future 1st rd picks in a futile attempt to make that strategy work.

Ok so you confirm Holmgren is in charge. However, you've spent years arguing that he's done almost nothing wrong.

So really, you think Homer is doing great? Why are you criticizing him if in the 3+ years he's been in charge, he's only made one mistake prior to this summer?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This team is not in a bad situation. They lack elite talent, but it appears they have good prospects entering the lineup or right on the brink. They have a good coaching staff. They aren't tied up in contract hell, say what you will about Couturier and Hayes, who if healthy are very competent 1 and 2 centers. To read twitter and this board, you'd think they are in dire straits. I don't believe it at all. They're going to need a few prospects to hit pretty big. That's the issue.

 

[deadhead]

Ok so you confirm Holmgren is in charge. However, you've spent years arguing that he's done almost nothing wrong.

So really, you think Homer is doing great? Why are you criticizing him if in the 3+ years he's been in charge, he's only made one mistake prior to this summer?

Holmgren was clearly in charge in 2018 and 2019.
He shares the blame for AV and Hayes, and those moves pretty much dictated last summer, because I doubt Scott was willing to fire AV and eat $15M.

And if Charlie is right, Scott (ownership) also advocated the hiring of another "name" HC - we're just lucky it's Torts and not Maurice!

Fletcher isn't blameless, but if you think this mess was all his doing, I got a bridge I can sell you.

Let's just be happy he held onto the 2023 1st, and didn't give 29 year old JG a $10M a year contract so the Flyers could pick #15 next summer.

If Comcast wakes up and clean house, new management can turn things around in a couple years if they avoid free agency and use the money to clear out players who don't fit the future and go bargain hunting for hidden gems and RFAs that playoff teams can't afford to pay.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

This team is not in a bad situation. They lack elite talent, but it appears they have good prospects entering the lineup or right on the brink. They have a good coaching staff. They aren't tied up in contract hell, say what you will about Couturier and Hayes, who if healthy are very competent 1 and 2 centers. To read twitter and this board, you'd think they are in dire straits. I don't believe it at all. They're going to need a few prospects to hit pretty big. That's the issue.

The prospects they have pretty much all other NHL teams have as well. Plus more.

No prospect has star potential in any way.

Holmgren was clearly in charge in 2018 and 2019.
He shares the blame for AV and Hayes, and those moves pretty much dictated last summer, because I doubt Scott was willing to fire AV and eat $15M.

And if Charlie is right, Scott (ownership) also advocated the hiring of another "name" HC - we're just lucky it's Torts and not Maurice!

Fletcher isn't blameless, but if you think this mess was all his doing, I got a bridge I can sell you.

Let's just be happy he held onto the 2023 1st, and didn't give 29 year old JG a $10M a year contract so the Flyers could pick #15 next summer.

If Comcast wakes up and clean house, new management can turn things around in a couple years if they avoid free agency and use the money to clear out players who don't fit the future and go bargain hunting for hidden gems and RFAs that playoff teams can't afford to pay.

who was the last hidden gem the flyers found?

 

[deadhead]

The prospects they have pretty much all other NHL teams have as well. Plus more.

No prospect has star potential in any way.

No, they don't. Flyers will probably rank about 10th this winter. They've done a good job of keeping the pipeline filled despite the failure of the last wave to make an impact.

They have a solid base of young players/prospects, given that you just need to add 2-3 top player/prospects.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

No, they don't. Flyers will probably rank about 10th this winter. They've done a good job of keeping the pipeline filled despite the failure of the last wave to make an impact.

They have a solid base of young players/prospects, given that you just need to add 2-3 top player/prospects.

solid base, is code word for average. They have nothing special. Add that their development is sketchy I don't get all excited.

When do you expect Chucks picks to start making an impact at the NHL level?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Holmgren was clearly in charge in 2018 and 2019.
He shares the blame for AV and Hayes, and those moves pretty much dictated last summer, because I doubt Scott was willing to fire AV and eat $15M.

And if Charlie is right, Scott (ownership) also advocated the hiring of another "name" HC - we're just lucky it's Torts and not Maurice!

Fletcher isn't blameless, but if you think this mess was all his doing, I got a bridge I can sell you.

Let's just be happy he held onto the 2023 1st, and didn't give 29 year old JG a $10M a year contract so the Flyers could pick #15 next summer.

If Comcast wakes up and clean house, new management can turn things around in a couple years if they avoid free agency and use the money to clear out players who don't fit the future and go bargain hunting for hidden gems and RFAs that playoff teams can't afford to pay.

Wait, those are mistakes now!!? You argued for years that Risto was the only mistake. You know, back when you were trying to give Fletcher credit for those years.

 

[flyersnorth]

This team is not in a bad situation. They lack elite talent, but it appears they have good prospects entering the lineup or right on the brink. They have a good coaching staff. They aren't tied up in contract hell, say what you will about Couturier and Hayes, who if healthy are very competent 1 and 2 centers. To read twitter and this board, you'd think they are in dire straits. I don't believe it at all. They're going to need a few prospects to hit pretty big. That's the issue.

That's been the issue for a long time now.

Over the past 10-15 years, I'd say they've drafted 2 players (Giroux and Ghost) who've punched way above their weight, and one (Couturier) that reached a level in line with his draft position, and that I would consider among the league's top players at what he does.

So, unless we're drafting in the top 3 or top 5, we have to hit on later players. It's not impossible. Every year, there are guys like Aho, Kucherov, Point, to be found somewhere in the draft. We just need to find ONE of them.

And for f--- sakes, they need a top pick to actually work out, and surprise on the upside. Patrick, Provorov, just won't cut it.

The dearth of talent is real in this organization. You won't win a single thing with good and even a few great pieces. You need elite pieces.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Wait, those are mistakes now!!? You argued for years that Risto was the only mistake. You know, back when you were trying to give Fletcher credit for those years.

The transformation to blaming Fletcher that we all predicted is coming and coming fast. Lay that groundwork, baby!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The prospects they have pretty much all other NHL teams have as well. Plus more.

No prospect has star potential in any way.


who was the last hidden gem the flyers found?

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Which made me a "contrarian" when it came to doubting Frost. Now I feel like I'm the one pulling for him while all of his ardent fans have turned to silence.

That's been the issue for a long time now.

Over the past 10-15 years, I'd say they've drafted 2 players (Giroux and Ghost) who've punched way above their weight, and one (Couturier) that reached a level in line with his draft position, and that I would consider among the league's top players at what he does.

So, unless we're drafting in the top 3 or top 5, we have to hit on later players. It's not impossible. Every year, there are guys like Aho, Kucherov, Point, to be found somewhere in the draft. We just need to find ONE of them.

And for f--- sakes, they need a top pick to actually work out, and surprise on the upside. Patrick, Provorov, just won't cut it.

The dearth of talent is real in this organization. You won't win a single thing with good and even a few great pieces. You need elite pieces.

Can't argue with this.

What I will say is that I think York is going to be pretty damn good, and I have hope for some of the other more recent picks.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This team is not in a bad situation. They lack elite talent, but it appears they have good prospects entering the lineup or right on the brink. They have a good coaching staff. They aren't tied up in contract hell, say what you will about Couturier and Hayes, who if healthy are very competent 1 and 2 centers. To read twitter and this board, you'd think they are in dire straits. I don't believe it at all. They're going to need a few prospects to hit pretty big. That's the issue.

Fletcher has stated that he thinks young guys playing is a problem, so there won't be a few prospects hitting it big.

Especially considering Tortorella suppresses offense and Fletcher's rosters are rarely good at offense to begin with.

Especially further considering Flyers development discourages offense.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Which made me a "contrarian" when it came to doubting Frost. Now I feel like I'm the one pulling for him while all of his ardent fans have turned to silence.


Can't argue with this.

What I will say is that I think York is going to be pretty damn good, and I have hope for some of the other more recent picks.

You've repeatedly demonstrate an inability to comprehend what anybody has ever said about Frost. Either you can't comprehend, or are lying. Which is it?

 

[deadhead]

solid base, is code word for average. They have nothing special. Add that their development is sketchy I don't get all excited.

When do you expect Chucks picks to start making an impact at the NHL level?

York is already a starter
Brink will probably go to LHV on a rehab assignment then come up by spring
Attard will probably start the season in LHV but finish the season in Philly
Foerster, Desnoyers, Wisdom will play this year in LHV and get cameos this spring and push for jobs next year
Gauthier will probably play one year in college then start in the top nine next year.
Andrae will play in the SHL this year and probably come over next year, maybe a year in the AHL, maybe less.

 

[freakydallas13]

You've repeatedly demonstrate an inability to comprehend what anybody has ever said about Frost. Either you can't comprehend, or are lying. Which is it?

 

[flyersnorth]

Can't argue with this.

What I will say is that I think York is going to be pretty damn good, and I have hope for some of the other more recent picks.

I think York will be pretty good too. Seems like a good pick.

It would be nice if Gauthier could become a legit top line player. Even average 1C/W would be great - we're fresh out once Couturier starts to decline.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think York will be pretty good too. Seems like a good pick.

It would be nice if Gauthier could become a legit top line player. Even average 1C/W would be great - we're fresh out once Couturier starts to decline.

They really need Gauthier to hit.

I said before the draft I could see him as a 30 goal scorer. His athletic talents are phenomenal. Size, strength, explosive speed, wicked shot, and he's a smart kid.

BUT....it was really tough to get a read on his hockey sense in the games I watched. And a lot of the time he looked great skating but all while doing nothing.

He does seem to get into good positions without the puck on offense and defense. It's more about his decisionmaking with the puck.

It's possible he was played out of position and will be better as a center. It's possible he's a big player just coming into his own. He's an interesting prospect.

I don't know how to rate him. Like I said with all of the prospects in this draft -- all seem to have pretty substantial disappointment potential. But man, I hope Gauthier hits. It would be huge for this franchise.

 

[TheKingPin]

They are not in a terrible spot but need big things to happen.

Fire Fletcher and everyone else.
Top 3 pick next year.
Hit on the 2024 picks.

That shouldn’t be too hard.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They are not in a terrible spot but need big things to happen.

Fire Fletcher and everyone else.
Top 3 pick next year.
Hit on the 2024 picks.

That shouldn’t be too hard.

I just don't believe in the "blow up the front office" angle. I realize I'm about the only one. I've seen fans clamor for it in every sport over and over. Sometimes it is indeed necessary. But I don't think it is with the Flyers right now. And in most occasions it's more about fan restlessness than anything else.

I think you are going to see progress with this Flyers team. If the team is a dysfunctional mess at the New Year, I will not argue if Chuck gets fired. I've said that many times. But I think they will be getting it together by the New Year and on an upward trajectory thereafter.

He's had to endure some bad luck. Bad injuries. I think he's a good man and a competent manager. I hope he gets to see it through, because this team is going to improve.

 

[Curufinwe]

The easy way to tell Homer was in charge in 2019 was the signing of Chris Stewart. Fletcher didn't want him at all, but was overruled by the big man. It's tough being Chuck when other people keep bringing in players with Minnesota connections over his strong objections.