LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
I still find it weird Fletcher felt the need to lie about not being interested in Gaudreau. I get there’s no suitable answer that’s going to make anyone happy. But why be liar on top of an idiot?
2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!
- Thread starter Hollywood Cannon
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FlyerNutter
In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Sneaky was to try to play the optics game.
They likely never made an official offer as they couldn’t clear JVR, so he can say they weren’t in the sweepstakes.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
But everyone knows that it’s a flat out lie. He could have just said “it didn’t work” or something similar.
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
freakydallas13
Registered User
Imagine kissing the ass of Flyers management so hard then having no comment on how the original meme team Ottawa has passed you in the journey to relevancy.
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FlyerNutter
In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
It’s why the fanbase is angry imo. Or those that supported this aggressive retool.
They have been lied to, and people can joke about this fanbase - but I’d wager most people that follow the team know what’s going on.
This isn’t the Florida Panthers market.
Tripod
I hate this team
You could ask certain posters the same thing.
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
Tripod
I hate this team
It's like someone rebuilding a car, throwing on old bald tires, then refusing to pay for an engine.
Ghosts Beer
I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
- Feb 10, 2014
- 22,780
- 16,527
I made it quite clear yesterday that I was not pleased & my belief was shaken, & that I think Fletcher is hanging by a string.
If this team looks terrible in December, I’ll have zero problem sending him exactly the way of Hexy.
Today, after my immediate disappointment at not landing a big shiny name had simmered down, I looked at the situation more pragmatically.
Does it suck? Yes.
But I greatly overestimated the cap they’d have to work with.
I figured JVR & Ellis were $13M you’d have free.
But if we all agree next year they are not a legit contender, then it’s stupid to attach a 1st rd (& more) to clear JVR $7M which will clear itself after this admittedly non-contending season.
And Ellis, well, they unfortunately have to budget as if he will come back. Which sucks. I wanted to act like you could write him off forever & immediately invest his $6M, but they can’t.
But they did need insurance for him at #1 RD, which is hard as hell to find, so that required DeAngelo at $5M.
So, as my cooler head prevailed today, I realized that they simply weren’t in position for the huge $10M 7 yr splash. (Unless maybe they wanted to have a team with 3 Seelers I’m their top 6.) Plus probably buying out JVR which would have a big cap penalty next yr when otherwise it’d be gone.
And hell, didn’t we all acknowledge that the timing probably wasn’t right for Gaudreau anyway? I admitted I wanted him regardless of fiscal prudence just to liven things up on a team that’s been drudgery for 2 years. But the consensus here was against signing Gaudreau. So it’s funny to see people flip when they didn’t sign him.
flyersnorth
Registered User
- Oct 7, 2019
- 4,688
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Even if the kids aren't better, you've got to take a sober look at your team, your assets, and what you can reasonably achieve, and conclude that you're closer to the bottom than the top.
In a year when you are in transition, traded away your longest-tenured captain in franchise history, dealing with multiple long-term injuries that give rise to uncertainty, and have a high caliber goalie kidnapped and whisked off to the Arctic circle, maybe, just maybe, you make the decision to forego moves that may handcuff you and accept it as it is - a gift and an opportunity to give your young players a shot, all while having a fanbase on board with rebuilding if you only took the time to be honest and upfront with them.
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
In case anyone is looking for the look that will be sure to turn eyes this summer please visit my brother's (@Captain Dave Poulin ) store and show him some love...(he gets percentages of purchases)
He has plenty of other cool designs a lot come from the Quackverse.
He has plenty of other cool designs a lot come from the Quackverse.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 51,058
- 22,232
There are basically three mistakes that Fletcher has made:
1) Risto, both the trade and the extension, could have kept Ghost and traded him for peanuts this summer, but that also meant firing AV after two years (and I doubt Scott was on board with eating $15M) b/c AV wanted Ghost and Voracek gone
2) Lindblom, made no sense, if they wanted cap relief, could have asked to cut and resign him, say to a 2yr/$4M deal or so, given he'd get the original money and probably felt loyalty to the team, this was handled in the worst possible way
3) Deslauriers, makes absolutely no sense, 1x1 would have been the most I'd paid, and only b/c 4LW is a bit thin right now.
TDA is actually what they should have done with Risto, signed to a "show me" deal, if it doesn't work out, you walk away, if he keeps his nose clean, he's a valuable asset (elite offensive D-man, compare his PP/60 and xGF/60 to Ghost's peak years) to keep or trade. When Risto's agent pushed for 5x5, I'd have shopped him an hour later.
Voracek, no loss, Atkinson is about the same value, different attributes.
G, got about what they'd get even if there were other suitors, Colorado wasn't offering Byram or Newhook, I doubt anyone else was offering an "A" asset, Florida's 2024 is a better bet than Colorado's 2023 (they had already traded their 2022) which will probably be in the late 20s, Florida has far worse cap issues than the Avs.
2019 summer came down to Hayes or Duchene b/c the mandate was "win now," they knew Patrick was damaged goods, so it was either go big or go home. Either was a bad move given a post-COVID flat cap, but hindsight is 20/20.
Laughton could have been traded for a late 1st or a 2nd and 3rd, but that wouldn't have moved the needle much, and if you aren't rebuilding, he's too valuable to give up. You can still move him in a year with 3x3 left on his deal, he'll have real value (look at what comparable players get in FA).
NAK, who cares, marginal 4RW who was benched, non-tendered so they could resign 35 year old Cogliano, and ended up with a 1yr/$1M deal. If you can't do better than that, you should be rebuilding.
1) Risto, both the trade and the extension, could have kept Ghost and traded him for peanuts this summer, but that also meant firing AV after two years (and I doubt Scott was on board with eating $15M) b/c AV wanted Ghost and Voracek gone
2) Lindblom, made no sense, if they wanted cap relief, could have asked to cut and resign him, say to a 2yr/$4M deal or so, given he'd get the original money and probably felt loyalty to the team, this was handled in the worst possible way
3) Deslauriers, makes absolutely no sense, 1x1 would have been the most I'd paid, and only b/c 4LW is a bit thin right now.
TDA is actually what they should have done with Risto, signed to a "show me" deal, if it doesn't work out, you walk away, if he keeps his nose clean, he's a valuable asset (elite offensive D-man, compare his PP/60 and xGF/60 to Ghost's peak years) to keep or trade. When Risto's agent pushed for 5x5, I'd have shopped him an hour later.
Voracek, no loss, Atkinson is about the same value, different attributes.
G, got about what they'd get even if there were other suitors, Colorado wasn't offering Byram or Newhook, I doubt anyone else was offering an "A" asset, Florida's 2024 is a better bet than Colorado's 2023 (they had already traded their 2022) which will probably be in the late 20s, Florida has far worse cap issues than the Avs.
2019 summer came down to Hayes or Duchene b/c the mandate was "win now," they knew Patrick was damaged goods, so it was either go big or go home. Either was a bad move given a post-COVID flat cap, but hindsight is 20/20.
Laughton could have been traded for a late 1st or a 2nd and 3rd, but that wouldn't have moved the needle much, and if you aren't rebuilding, he's too valuable to give up. You can still move him in a year with 3x3 left on his deal, he'll have real value (look at what comparable players get in FA).
NAK, who cares, marginal 4RW who was benched, non-tendered so they could resign 35 year old Cogliano, and ended up with a 1yr/$1M deal. If you can't do better than that, you should be rebuilding.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
They weren't in position because Fletcher took them out of position. JVR isn't the problem.
freakydallas13
Registered User
I'm glad Dean was included because often people leave him out of their ire crosshairs but after Clarke, he's probably the worst of the bunch.In case anyone is looking for the look that will be sure to turn eyes this summer please visit my brother's (@Captain Dave Poulin ) store and show him some love...(he gets percentages of purchases)
View attachment 569244
He has plenty of other cool designs a lot come from the Quackverse.
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
My brother is a man of great wisdom.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Clarke and Lombardi are who Fletcher knows best. If there's anyone he trusts and listens to, it's his two mentors. Not Holmgren.
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
freakydallas13
Registered User
I'm probably in the minority on this one, but I think it's possible that if you dumped everyone but Homer, he might not be terrible in a role that has little influence on hockey ops. Maybe.
I also have no problem throwing him out with the rest of the crony-archy though. A clean slate is probably preferable. But I think he's less of a problem than the rest of the crew, which is an extremely low bar to be fair.
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Flyerfan4life
Registered User
and will score even less this year..
- May 22, 2008
- 10,017
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I don’t think Holmgren is actually that involved personally anymore based on the way he talked on the Nasty Knuckles podcast. I’m sure he gets consulted once in a while but I really dont get the sense that he is the one originating or pushing any management decisions.
mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
There's no doubt. The Gaudreau debacle seals it. This is all Chuck and his Sith Lord master Darth Clarke's doing.
TCTC
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2013
- 13,367
- 9,785
I'm convinced now that Gaudreau expected to sign here and Fletcher just couldn't get it done. So Gaudreau had to look for alternatives.
What a joke. You have your perfect Giroux replacement falling into your lap and you can't make room to sign him.
mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
Because you gave his money to Ristolainen, DeAngelo, and Deslauriers!
Edit: Hell, even Ristolainen, Deslauriers, and Braun basically gets you there! Could have signed TDA and Gaudreau, and traded Risto to recoup a first. Not exactly what I had in mind, but infinitely more defensible from the standpoint of trying to win now.
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