2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!

[deadhead]

MacEwen would have looked like shit on the Avs and they wouldn't have even iced him. He's trash. He's Fletcher's favorite kind of player, someone who looks busy via inefficiency but does nothing of substance.

Sakic is a better GM than Fletcher. He recognizes when a player provides nothing.

So that's why he dumped NAK?

MacEwen would have had much better metrics playing with Makar instead of Yandle-Seeler!

 

[Beef Invictus]

So that's why he dumped NAK?

He dumped NAK because of the cap. Not because NAK is deficient, but because there were other useful players out there. This doesn't make NAK any less useful.

It does mean Fletcher is too stupid to find useful players, a problem he's had his whole career.

 

[Curufinwe]

NAK would be a much better use of cap this season than Deslauriers. And next season. And the two seasons after that.

It's comical to think MacEwen would have played for the Avs. He wasn't even good enough for Vancouver.

 

[Adam Warlock]

It really sounds like the Flyers were not in on Gaudreau, even if they could make room. Im convinced its bc hes not "their kind of player". Its not about cap, they just never wanted him.

 

[Cody Webster]

NAK would be a much better use of cap this season than Deslauriers. And next season. And the two seasons after that.

It's comical to think MacEwen would have played for the Avs. He wasn't even good enough for Vancouver.

but NAK isn't big and heavy and won't fight like the sack of shit we signed for 4 years

 

[Beef Invictus]

It really sounds like the Flyers were not in on Gaudreau, even if they could make room. Im convinced its bc hes not "their kind of player". Its not about cap, they just never wanted him.

Far too much offensive skill.

 

[Magua]

So, that Friedman podcast pretty clearly states certain members of the Flyers front office really wanted Gaudreau. And yet, Fletcher didn't pull the trigger. But I thought Fletcher was a puppet?

It's hard to stifle your laughter and not fully believe that Chuck Fletcher believed that prioritizing defensemen, and rounding out "depth," was more important than 1 star player, as Friedman stated. Plugging multiple holes, so to speak (through laughter). He mentioned that they were 40 points out as a reason for caution. But that they believe Tortorella can revitalize the team and get young players back on track, so they needed to dump assets to defense. I won't even delve too much into the WAR of Gaudreau vs. DeAngelo/Ristolainen/Deslauriers in terms of adding wins, but all of these are contradictory visionless statements, not that we don't know that by now.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sometimes I think a guy with all the power has power.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

So, that Friedman podcast pretty clearly states certain members of the Flyers front office really wanted Gaudreau. And yet, Fletcher didn't pull the trigger. But I thought Fletcher was a puppet?

It's hard to stifle your laughter and not fully believe that Chuck Fletcher believed that prioritizing defensemen, and rounding out "depth," was more important than 1 star player, as Friedman stated. Plugging multiple holes, so to speak (through laughter). He mentioned that they were 40 points out as a reason. But that they believe Tortorella can revitalize the team and get young players back on track. I won't even delve too much into the WAR of Gaudreau vs. DeAngelo/Ristolainen/Deslauriers in terms of adding wins, but all of these are contradictory visionless statements, not that we don't know that by now.

Homer, and who else?

 

[TheKingPin]

Lol. They are the absolute laughing stock of the league. Ironically, Hextall is the type of GM they need right now. But he no talky to Clarky

 

[Adam Warlock]

Why do people compare early RFA deals for part-time players with FA veteran contracts?

Frost has yet to prove anything, neither has Tippett, Allison, or Laczynski.
When they produce, they'll get paid.

Nor has Frost outplayed Tippett, both have flashed, neither has produced.

It just speaks to what they value and their lack of cap foresite. If Frost goes out n scores 45-50 points this year, now youre stuck scrambling to fit his raise in next year. You bridge him with a 2 year deal and he shows something...it buys you another year to plan.

 

[deadhead]

He dumped NAK because of the cap. Not because NAK is deficient, but because there were other useful players out there. This doesn't make NAK any less useful.

It does mean Fletcher is too stupid to find useful players, a problem he's had his whole career.

He didn't pick up those "useful" players, he used NAK's money to re-sign 35 year old Cogliano.
Cogliano last three seasons pp/60 (5x5): 1.17, 0.82, 0.82
MacEwen last season 0.76. Surrounded by far worse talent.

 

[Magua]

I'll predict $1.2m for Tippett. $2m total.

Evolving-Hockey has Tippett at $2.12 mil. That does seem high, and they had Frost at just over $1 mil. I'd definitely chuckle if they go multi-year with Tippett, however unlikely.

Either way, this is why NHL-ready young players, who haven't even stuck as regulars, aren't some high commodity trade asset, like lazy GMs think. Especially ones who you need to immediately pay an RFA contract. They produce and raise their value in sizable usage, which carries the opportunity cost of other players not seeing those minutes, or their value depreciates instantly. Time is not on your side.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He didn't pick up those "useful" players, he used NAK's money to re-sign 35 year old Cogliano.
Cogliano last three seasons pp/60 (5x5): 1.17, 0.82, 0.82
MacEwen last season 0.76. Surrounded by far worse talent.

We know that you know when you use stats like this, you know it's the wrong way to do it. So we know this is intentional dishonesty.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Besides, NAK's cap space was used to extend Manson. It's almost like Colorado made more moves and you're being extremely selective to construct a misleading narrative in defense of a guy who may have surpassed Milbury as worst in league history.

A guy you claim hasn't actually made a single move of his own anyway, so what's the point? Why the devotion?

 

[TCTC]

Far too much offensive skill.

I think they wanted him, but Fletcher just couldn't get it done. I understand not wanting to trade the 2023 1st. That pick should be off limits. But I refuse to believe that you can't trade JVR without attaching the 2023 1st to him. He probably has negative value, but not that negative.
This was one of those moments where you just have to find a way and Fletcher couldn't.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think they wanted him, but Fletcher just couldn't get it done. I understand not wanting to trade the 2023 1st. That pick should be off limits. But I refuse to believe that you can't trade JVR without attaching the 2023 1st to him. He probably has negative value, but not that negative.
This was one of those moments where you just have to find a way and Fletcher couldn't.

Fletcher can't get it done because he's spent 13 years establishing that's he's always desperate and always willing to overpay.

The only savvy move I could find, dumping his terrible Nystrom contract, only happened because his dad's friend did him a favor.

He's the league's victim and he's too weak to change that.

 

[TCTC]

Fletcher can't get it done because he's spent 13 years establishing that's he's always desperate and always willing to overpay.

The only savvy move I could find, dumping his terrible Nystrom contract, only happened because his dad's friend did him a favor.

He's the league's victim and he's too weak to change that.

Sure, but usually GMs try to work with each other and not against each other. I don't believe other GMs see Fletcher as some kind of pushover. But he still couldn't make a move. It's embarrassing really.

 

[Adam Warlock]

So, that Friedman podcast pretty clearly states certain members of the Flyers front office really wanted Gaudreau. And yet, Fletcher didn't pull the trigger. But I thought Fletcher was a puppet?

It's hard to stifle your laughter and not fully believe that Chuck Fletcher believed that prioritizing defensemen, and rounding out "depth," was more important than 1 star player, as Friedman stated. Plugging multiple holes, so to speak (through laughter). He mentioned that they were 40 points out as a reason for caution. But that they believe Tortorella can revitalize the team and get young players back on track, so they needed to dump assets to defense. I won't even delve too much into the WAR of Gaudreau vs. DeAngelo/Ristolainen/Deslauriers in terms of adding wins, but all of these are contradictory visionless statements, not that we don't know that by now.

Its really stunning. If their stance was "with the uncertainty of ellis, the farabee and brink injuries, and the Fedotov situation...there are just too many question marks going into next year and we just wanna see it play out before we pick a direction"... i could live with that.

But to stand on "the moves we made are better for the team than Gaudreau would be" is just otherworldly stupid. The mountains they moved to "upgrade" hagg n ghost into risto n tony is substancial...but getting a mvp contender...nah.

The most infuriating part is by getting TDA, Fletcher is openly acknowledging that Risto cant be counted on to be a top pair guy. SO WHY THE HELL DID YOU GIVE UP SO MUCH TO GET HIM.

 

[kudymen]

But he didnt re-sign Mayhew so everything is great with him as a GM

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sure, but usually GMs try to work with each other and not against each other. I don't believe other GMs see Fletcher as some kind of pushover. But he still couldn't make a move. It's embarrassing really.

They sure treat him like a pushover.

 

[deadhead]

Besides, NAK's cap space was used to extend Manson. It's almost like Colorado made more moves and you're being extremely selective to construct a misleading narrative in defense of a guy who may have surpassed Milbury as worst in league history.

A guy you claim hasn't actually made a single move of his own anyway, so what's the point? Why the devotion?

No it wasn't, NAK's QO was about the same as Cogliano's 1 year deal, with Newhook emerging, they only needed one of the two, they chose the 35 year old forward. That says it all!

What devotion? Just pointing out that all this gnashing of teeth over NAK was always nonsense.

I have no love of Delo or MacEwen, and expect them to be marginalized at some point, MacEwen sooner b/c there are better alternatives at RW, Delo later if Ratcliffe improves or they find a 4C and Desnoyers moves to LW.

But to start the season, Ratcliffe is still unproved and Desnoyers is probably a half to full season away.
Allison's durability is always a question, and Wisdom and Foerster are also probably going to start in LHV.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No it wasn't, NAK's QO was about the same as Cogliano's 1 year deal, with Newhook emerging, they only needed one of the two, they chose the 35 year old forward. That says it all!

What devotion? Just pointing out that all this gnashing of teeth over NAK was always nonsense.

I have no love of Delo or MacEwen, and expect them to be marginalized at some point, MacEwen sooner b/c there are better alternatives at RW, Delo later if Ratcliffe improves or they find a 4C and Desnoyers moves to LW.

But to start the season, Ratcliffe is still unproved and Desnoyers is probably a half to full season away.
Allison's durability is always a question, and Wisdom and Foerster are also probably going to start in LHV.

We aren't gnashing teeth over NAK, we are gnashing teeth over a failed process that bleeds value at every turn and emphasizes terrible players over better ones. This has been explained repeatedly.

You're just arbitrarily assigning cap space to create a narrative in defense of a Fletcher you are indeed blatantly devoted to. You defend him in everything he does. Even though you think he hasn't actually done anything because Holmgren, AV, Yeo, and Tortorella have all been in charge making every move.

 

[LOFIN]

As a Colorado fan chiming in, I would've liked to keep NAK but he was eventually basically the 13th forward with not much impact in the playoffs. If the cap allowed it, sure. He played with pace and I liked him. But we are tight enough as it is with the cap.

At least he won't get to damage the cup in Toronto.

As a player, not someone you should cry about but maybe think about was he a guy that you really needed to throw over the boards?

 

[Beef Invictus]

As a Colorado fan chiming in, I would've liked to keep NAK but he was eventually basically the 13th forward with not much impact in the playoffs. If the cap allowed it, sure. He played with pace and I liked him. But we are tight enough as it is with the cap.

At least he won't get to damage the cup in Toronto.

As a player, not someone you should cry about but maybe think about was he a guy that you really needed to throw over the boards?

The thing with NAK is that he is better than several players Fletcher prefers, but Fletcher is too stupid to realize this.


This is the case with numerous players. He represents a symptom to a problem. Well, two problems: failed evaluation, and always losing value on everything Fletcher has ever done in his life.