Prospect Info: 2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 4

[417]

I’m sorry but this doesn’t make much sense:



We are developing a pro player not a junior player. You get junior or minor pro players to play in NHL exhibition games or 9 game tryouts to evaluate where their development is. It’s also where we see what’s improved and what’s to be worked on. Not the other way around.

Right?

The notion of gaging where he is in his development by seeing how he performs against junior aged players is an odd conclusion to reach IMO.

 

[417]

I don't really care much about him going to the World Juniors or not. There are merits to either decision, he's learning and progressing in the NHL as is so keeping him with the Habs is fine, but playing first line minutes internationally could be a worthwhile change of pace too. The thing I don't really get is the idea that it would tell us where his development would be. We know from his U18s and Finnish U20 play that he's graduated from U20 competition.

If he plays well it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. If he struggles it doesn't really matter either, of all fanbases we should have a very good understanding of how WJC hype is overblown after watching Poehling/Romanov get hyped to the stratosphere while people freaked out about Caufield/Suzuki based on that tournament.

In either scenario, Habs fans/media goes crazy.

What does the player gain though?

Yep. His peers are in the NHL, not in junior.

This.

I understand hes a NHl player and all but robbing a player of a WJC appearance and potential medal is disgusting. I'd personally be very mad.

Every players best memory is SCF -> WJC gold -> Kid being born

Robbing him? lol

You realize he's being paid to be a professional hockey player? Handsomely I might add.

Not to mention he's already played in a WJC.

Also, all due respect, how do you know what every player's best memory is?

I think we're conflating our own sentimental feelings about the WJC with real life.

 

[Kennerback]

Right?

The notion of gaging where he is in his development by seeing how he performs against junior aged players is an odd conclusion to reach IMO.

There are some arguments for him going to the WJC, but IMO evaluating where he is in his develpment is the weakest.

There's an argument to make that it could help his development. For example by developing his leadership or giving him time to play lots of minutes if he isn't in Montreal.

 

[JohnTheBaptist]

0 reason to send him to the WJC.

From the Habs' point of view I see none. From a fan's point of view it might be exciting for some to watch him dominate the WJC.

 

[417]

There are some arguments for him going to the WJC, but IMO evaluating where he is in his develpment is the weakest.

Sure, if he was in same situation as Shane Wright for example.

I think most of the arguments are selfish and have to do with our own viewing pleasure and insecurities, rather than what's good for the player currently.

Watching him pump 3 past Austria allows us to pump our chest in triumph.

That's great and all, I get it, but personally...I couldn't careless (not that this has anything to do with me mind you lol)

There's an argument to make that it could help his development. For example by developing his leadership or giving him time to play lots of minutes if he isn't in Montreal.

He's already played in a WJC, WC and Olympics.

 

[Mrb1p]

In either scenario, Habs fans/media goes crazy.

What does the player gain though?

This.


Robbing him? lol

You realize he's being paid to be a professional hockey player? Handsomely I might add.

Not to mention he's already played in a WJC.

Also, all due respect, how do you know what every player's best memory is?

I think we're conflating our own sentimental feelings about the WJC with real life.

K youre going to tell me you never heard a gold medalist reminisce about his championship? ... ? Theres literally dozens of videos on just Canadian players talking about it on youtube, theres a literal series. You can hear any analyst/ex player talk about it during every WJC too.

Hes gonna be paid either way, dont think he cares about missing 3 games in early january to go compete on the biggest stage.

 

[Kennerback]

From the Habs' point of view I see none. From a fan's point of view it might be exciting for some to watch him dominate the WJC.

Sure, if he was in same situation as Shane Wright for example.

I think most of the arguments are selfish and have to do with our own viewing pleasure and insecurities, rather than what's good for the player currently.

Watching him pump 3 past Austria allows us to pump our chest in triumph.

That's great and all, I get it, but personally...I couldn't careless (not that this has anything to do with me mind you lol)


He's already played in a WJC, WC and Olympics.

The only case I see a benefit is if he's playing 7 minute a night Pezetta minutes. Play him in the WJC and play him in Laval. Otherwise, why send him to a watered down version of the WJC with Russia not playing and Latvia and Austria getting a free pass because Belarus is not there either.

 

[Mrb1p]

From the Habs' point of view I see none. From a fan's point of view it might be exciting for some to watch him dominate the WJC.

Playing in a high pressure environment, against the best of the best, under high levels of stress and being a generally positive experience in trying to win something is huge. Weve seen what the NHL playoffs did for Suzuki and Caufield, a deep WJC run as similar effects.

Its 4 games missed, he just sat more than that this month alone, hes not going to miss out on anything by going there.

 

[417]

K youre going to tell me you never heard a gold medalist reminisce about his championship? ... ? Theres literally dozens of videos on just Canadian players talking about it on youtube, theres a literal series. You can hear any analyst/ex player talk about it during every WJC too.

Yes, and i've also heard about players saying their dream was to play in the NHL.

So what?

He's also won the MVP of the Olympics and won a Bronze medal there.

Trust me, I get the sentimental stuff around the WJC...TSN does a great job of tugging at Canadians hearts.

Hes gonna be paid either way, dont think he cares about missing 3 games in early january to go compete on the biggest stage.

You don't think a guy who is trying to establish himself in the NHL, cares about missing 3 games (it would be more btw) to go play in a tournament he's already played in and one that team, his employer, itself already told him last September he didn't need to go to?

I mean, maybe you're right...personally, I think his main goal is to establish himself as an NHL and giving up his roster spot even temporarily, contradicts that objective.

This doesn't appear like a player they're keen on letting go, but I could be wrong.

The only case I see a benefit is if he's playing 7 minute a night Pezetta minutes. Play him in the WJC and play him in Laval. Otherwise, why send him to a watered down version of the WJC with Russia not playing and Latvia and Austria getting a free pass because Belarus is not there either.

Agreed...if his usage spikes down between now and then, then sure send him.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yes, and i've also heard about players saying their dream was to play in the NHL.

So what?

He's also won the MVP of the Olympics and won a Bronze medal there.

Trust me, I get the sentimental stuff around the WJC...TSN does a great job of tugging at Canadians hearts.

You don't think a guy who is trying to establish himself in the NHL, cares about missing 3 games (it would be more btw) to go play in a tournament he's already played in and one that team itself already told him last September he didn't need to go to?

I mean, maybe you're right...personally, I think his main goal is to establish himself as an NHL and giving up his roster spot even temporarily, contradicts that objective.

It was asked of him that he focuses on this season in the summer. He made the team, do you think hes gonna lose his spot if he goes?

 

[417]

It was asked of him that he focuses on this season in the summer.

And now that the season is underway, and they're playing him in every game he's been available in.

You think that has changed?

Stands to reason if they wanted him to avoid the WCJ in September to focus on the season, they'd want him to continue to focus on the season, now that were 20 games in no?

He made the team, do you think hes gonna lose his spot if he goes?

Maybe, it's the NHL.

But that's less the point, he's already played in a WJC.

He's a professional hockey player now, this is an amateur tournament.

Honest question...this desire to send him to the WJC is purely to see him "dominate" right? Honest question, meant with zero malice.

But have you listened to what the coaching staff, since the beginning of the season, have been wanting him to focus on?

 

[Kennerback]

I am not saying it's a bad decision but I don't understand why Dadonov, Armia and Drouin are still ahead of him in the pecking order. I also don't understand why they play him with Gallagher/Dvorak and not Monahan/Anderson when he plays in the Top-9 because of injuries. And they might also have some developmental reason I don't know about that would justify playing him in the WJC.

 

[Mrb1p]

And now that the season is underway, and they're playing him in every game he's been available in.

You think that has changed?

Stands to reason if they wanted him to avoid the WCJ in September to focus on the season, they'd want him to continue to focus on the season, now that were 20 games in no?

Maybe, it's the NHL.

But that's less the point, he's already played in a WJC.

He's a professional hockey player now, this is an amateur tournament.

Honest question...this desire to send him to the WJC is purely to see him "dominate" right? Honest question, meant with zero malice.

But have you listened to what the coaching staff, since the beginning of the season, have been wanting him to focus on?

I mean, having the best possible competition is nice but I think the WJC, or any high-end competition, for that matter is an incredible experience to have in your bag. Your learn from failures and success and develop bonds that last a long time. Also having a prime role on a team vs playing 4th line minutes should be beneficial for any player.

 

[JohnTheBaptist]

Playing in a high pressure environment, against the best of the best, under high levels of stress and being a generally positive experience in trying to win something is huge. Weve seen what the NHL playoffs did for Suzuki and Caufield, a deep WJC run as similar effects.

Its 4 games missed, he just sat more than that this month alone, hes not going to miss out on anything by going there.

I'm not against the idea. I'm all for doing what's best for him regardless of what the popular opinion is.

 

[417]

I mean, having the best possible competition is nice but I think the WJC, or any high-end competition, for that matter is an incredible experience to have in your bag. Your learn from failures and success and develop bonds that last a long time. Also having a prime role on a team vs playing 4th line minutes should be beneficial for any player.

Fair enough.

Maybe i've grown cynical in my old age lol, I used to love the WJC. It really was a tradition and I bought the hype that the WJC served as some kind of springboard for emerging players.

But I no longer believe that, I rarely even watch them. It's become less about the competition and more of a marketing thing for networks and everyone also turns into a pro scout and that annoys me to no end lol.

He could go to the WJC and set the points record and it wouldn't move me one bit.

 

[Mrb1p]

Fair enough.

Maybe i've grown cynical in my old age lol, I used to love the WJC. It really was a tradition and I bought the hype that the WJC served as some kind of springboard for emerging players.

But I no longer believe that, I rarely even watch them. It's become less about the competition and more of a marketing thing for networks and everyone also turns into a pro scout and that annoys me to no end lol.

He could go to the WJC and set the points record and it wouldn't move me one bit.

Well then thats your problem, the WJC is probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest stage of hockey a player could play in, depending on how you rank the olympics, or if you want to get specific with SCF and playoffs.

Playing in the WJC cannot be a negative. The experience you gather from playing at such a high level is a very good teaching moment.

Mind you, its also, IMO, the 2nd best hockey one could watch after the 1st round of the playoffs, I dont really understand the sentiment.

 

[417]

Well then thats your problem,

Wouldn't describe it as a problem at all lol just an opinion.

the WJC is probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest stage of hockey a player could play in, depending on how you rank the olympics, or if you want to get specific with SCF and playoffs.

Playing in the WJC cannot be a negative. The experience you gather from playing at such a high level is a very good teaching moment.

Mind you, its also, IMO, the 2nd best hockey one could watch after the 1st round of the playoffs, I dont really understand the sentiment.

Once again, he's already played in the WJC lol

WHy are you acting like they're "robbing him of his dream". I also never said it was a negative, but that's also not a reason. Something "not" hurting a player is not a valuable enough reason for me to want him to go there, I would rather know how it benefits him more than what he's currently experiencing.

As for not understanding the sentiment.

I'm not sure how you don't. We've seen guys have amazing WJC and flame out, we;ve seen guys look invisible at the WJC and have great careers.

Go look at what Habs fans were saying after Ryan Poehling's tournament and then go look at what Habs fans were saying about Nick Suzuki's.

Hell, go look at Cole Caufield's WJC, where people were actually debating whether or not he could become the player he's becoming now.

Mario Lemieux declined to go play at the WJC because he didn't like his experience with the head coach the year previous and he didn't want to disrupt his junior season.

His career turned out alright, you think he's less fulfilled because he never represented Canada at an amateur tournament? I don't know man.

Don't confuse hype, with meaning.

And once more...he;s already played in the WJC.

 

[Mrb1p]

Wouldn't describe it as a problem at all lol just an opinion.

Once again, he's already played in the WJC lol

WHy are you acting like they're "robbing him of his dream".

As for not understanding the sentiment.

I'm not sure how you don't. We've seen guys have amazing WJC and flame out, we;ve seen guys look invisible at the WJC and have great careers.

Go look at what Habs fans were saying after Ryan Poehling's tournament and then go look at what Habs fans were saying about Nick Suzuki's.

Hell, go look at Cole Caufield's WJC, where people were actually debating whether or not he could become the player he's becoming now.

Don't confuse hype, with meaning.

And once more...he;s already played in the WJC.

I dont really care about hype or looking at cherry picked examples, it is not grounds for debate.

Yes he has played in the WJC, he hasnt competed for a medal though. To me itnis a psycholoyical growth mindset that allows the player to experience some of the highest level of competition he will ever face, much tougher again, than a random game in early january while playing on a bottom five team (On the fourth line, 10 minutes a night... With Pezzeta.)

Challenging a player through these types of hurdles is very beneficial, learning leadership qualities, learning how to handle the best players in the world and how you fit in that scheme too. I dont see how anyone could say it is a negative experience, especially when comparer to his last 8 weeks.

Then theres confidence, probably the biggest factor in developing a top tier individual in any aspects of society. You dismiss him dominating as if it wouldnt be beneficial to his development. Do you even know why he went first overall? Is it because he was spending 12 minutes a night on the third line in Liiga until january, or is it the confidence he acquired during his hot streak in the Olympics that helped him assset his skills as a hockey player and make a phenomenal push to the 1st overall pick?

 

[417]

I dont really care about hype or looking at cherry picked examples, it is not grounds for debate.

I don't have to cherry pick examples, there are numerous examples.

In the end, people attribute way too much importance to the performance at the tournament.

It's a 2-3 week isolated tournament, it's a snapshot in an amateur players career. A step, for some, on their journey to becoming professional hockey players.

Yes he has played in the WJC, he hasnt competed for a medal though. To me itnis a psycholoyical growth mindset that allows the player to experience some of the highest level of competition he will ever face, much tougher again, than a random game in early january while playing on a bottom five team (On the fourth line, 10 minutes a night... With Pezzeta.)

No guarantees he'd be competing for one this year either.

As far as the psychological growth, I won't say you're wrong here since neither of us can truly measure that.

I just don't think it's worth more than hands on NHL experience.

Other then the pride he’d feel representing his country, which really doesn't do anything for the Montreal Canadiens.

I don't think there's a damn thing for him to gain playing there.

10 mins on a 4th line > 3-5 games against amateur competition.

Challenging a player through these types of hurdles is very beneficial, learning leadership qualities, learning how to handle the best players in the world and how you fit in that scheme too. I dont see how anyone could say it is a negative experience, especially when comparer to his last 8 weeks.

The best players in the world, play in the NHL. The best leaders in hockey all currently play in the NHL, the biggest hurdles he’ll face will be in the NHL.

Once again, *never* said it would be a negative experience, doesn't matter how many times you keep repeating this ad hominem, it does not reflect what I've written.

Then theres confidence, probably the biggest factor in developing a top tier individual in any aspects of society. You dismiss him dominating as if it wouldnt be beneficial to his development. Do you even know why he went first overall? Is it because he was spending 12 minutes a night on the third line in Liiga until january, or is it the confidence he acquired during his hot streak in the Olympics that helped him assset his skills as a hockey player and make a phenomenal push to the 1st overall pick?

What about if he doesn't dominate? How do you know that's a given?

And even if he does dominate...Joel Armis dominated a WJC, I remember watching him and thinking he was the next big thing.

It just means what it means...its a 3 week tournament. Why do we need to act like it's some huge catalyst because TSN brainwashed us to believe it was the be-all-end-all of hockey.

Its not that serious man...especially when he's already been there.

He's eating dinner at the big boys table now.

You wanna send him in the other room with all the other annoying brats to who eat with plastic utensils and plates?

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't have to cherry pick examples, there are numerous examples.

In the end, people attribute way too much importance to the performance at the tournament.

It's a 2-3 week isolated tournament, it's a snapshot in an amateur players career. A step, for some, on their journey to becoming professional hockey players.



No guarantees he'd be competing for one this year either.

As far as the psychological growth, I won't say you're wrong here since neither of us can truly measure that.

I just don't think it's worth more than hands on NHL experience.

Other then the pride he’d feel representing his country, which really doesn't do anything for the Montreal Canadiens.

I don't think there's a damn thing for him to gain playing there.

10 mins on a 4th line > 3-5 games against amateur competition.

The best players in the world, play in the NHL. The best leaders in hockey all currently play in the NHL, the biggest hurdles he’ll face will be in the NHL.

Once again, *never* said it would be a negative experience, doesn't matter how many times you keep repeating this ad hominem, it does not reflect what I've written.

What about if he doesn't dominate? How do you know that's a given?

And even if he does dominate...Joel Armis dominated a WJC, I remember watching him and thinking he was the next big thing.

It just means what it means...its a 3 week tournament. Why do we need to act like it's some huge catalyst because TSN brainwashed us to believe it was the be-all-end-all of hockey.

Its not that serious man...especially when he's already been there.

He's eating dinner at the big boys table now.

You wanna send him in the other room with all the other annoying brats to who eat with plastic utensils and plates?

Eh, you and I can't measure that, the good thing is its well documented in sports psychology (And developmental psychology if you want to make greater relations to high stress environment and development.) Im at work right now so I won't link the research (And Im unsure if youre able to read anyway, since you may not have an academia proxy account) but there is a research that came out last winter that evaluated that frequent exams and competitions were one of the best factor in developing successful individuals (Wether that be in sports or in academia, or wtv., not that here "successful" is also up for debate, but lets not go there, were talking about the best possible hockey player.)

There is another that took a bunch of kids in training for a sport that I can't remember what it was, there was a few groups, one preparing for a competition, and others IIRC not competiting/just living their normal lives and the competition-ready athletes all had better biometric results than the rest. I can try to find those tomorrow if you want to read up on them, they should be in the international journal of sports and exercise psychology. I think the main draw was that the novelty of competition and the goal-oriented approach created a greater environment for learning than just going through the motion. A season is very long and should be seen as "chipping" away at becoming a greater player, a tournament is short and a very quick burst learning-experience wise.

Also the bolded is just wrong IMO, especially when its not a dilemma between the two, he can have both, its 75 games in that situation vs 71 + the experience of leading a team against all-world competition in very high stakes environment.

 

[417]

Eh, you and I can't measure that, the good thing is its well documented in sports psychology (And developmental psychology if you want to make greater relations to high stress environment and development.)

He's in a high stress environment, higher than what he'd face at WJC, at least IMO.

Im at work right now so I won't link the research (And Im unsure if youre able to read anyway, since you may not have an academia proxy account) but there is a research that came out last winter that evaluated that frequent exams and competitions were one of the best factor in developing successful individuals (Wether that be in sports or in academia, or wtv., not that here "successful" is also up for debate, but lets not go there, were talking about the best possible hockey player.)

You saying you better then me?

Jokes lol

Real talk I don't need the link to acknowledge the validity of that study.

I just don't accord as much importance to the WJC as you and most do.

I think the NHL is the highest level of competition there is and anything below that I don't accord as much importance in comparison.

There is another that took a bunch of kids in training for a sport that I can't remember what it was, there was a few groups, one preparing for a competition, and others IIRC not competiting/just living their normal lives and the competition-ready athletes all had better biometric results than the rest. I can try to find those tomorrow if you want to read up on them, they should be in the international journal of sports and exercise psychology. I think the main draw was that the novelty of competition and the goal-oriented approach created a greater environment for learning than just going through the motion. A season is very long and should be seen as "chipping" away at becoming a greater player, a tournament is short and a very quick burst learning-experience wise.

I'd absolutely be interested, DM me if you find it.

I’m coaching young kids in basketball and trying to implement sports psychology without overwhelming them.

Also the bolded is just wrong IMO, especially when its not a dilemma between the two, he can have both, its 75 games in that situation vs 71 + the experience of leading a team against all-world competition in very high stakes environment.

The all-world competition exists in the NHL.

Not sure how anyone can say otherwise.

 

[the valiant effort]

Looks like I'm joining MSL and adding Slafkovsky to my ignore list.

 

[Mrb1p]

He's in a high stress environment, higher than what he'd face at WJC, at least IMO.

You saying you better then me?

Jokes lol

Real talk I don't need the link to acknowledge the validity of that study.

I just don't accord as much importance to the WJC as you and most do.

I think the NHL isn't a highest level of competition there is and anything below that I don't accord as much importance in comparison.



I'd absolutely be interested, DM me if you find it.

I’m coaching young kids in basketball and trying to implement sports psychology without overwhelming them.


The all-world competition exists in the NHL.

Not sure how anyone can say otherwise.

I will dm tomorrow

The NHL is the highest competition, the NHL season is not. Its easy to lose focus in a long drawn out season like that, it is not in a tournament, thats why the WJC and Olympics (when NHL players are playing) have some of the best games ever played there vs Junior and the NHL. It is also why games with higher stakes are more interesting to watch during a season, NHL players are human just like you and I, they can and will get "bored" a few nights a year during a long season.

 

[417]

I will dm tomorrow

Preciate’

The NHL is the highest competition, the NHL season is not. Its easy to lose focus in a long drawn out season like that, it is not in a tournament, thats why the WJC and Olympics (when NHL players are playing) have some of the best games ever played there vs Junior and the NHL. It is also why games with higher stakes are more interesting to watch during a season, NHL players are human just like you and I, they can and will get "bored" a few nights a year during a long season.

All fair points, either way, at this stage I think unless things change, it's a moot point because I don't think he's going anywhere.

He's getting better and better and building more and more confidence. I wouldn't disrupt that if i’m the Habs.

But I guess we’ll see.

 

[Favster]

At this point they should just ask the kid if he wants to go. Really isn't complicated.