Prospect Info: 2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 4

[Lafleurs Guy]

Did it matter for Koivu? Plekanec? Markov? Crosby? Malkin? Letang? MSL?

It matters for mental midgets, you don’t win squat w mental midgets

I'm not sure what you think you're proving here. They weren't stuck under SL/MT....

Coaching matters. Devleopment matters. If you're stuck under a moron, you're going to have a much harder time succeeding. A guy like Crosby can overcome it, but that's too much to expect for most players. Again, look at what was happening to Caufield.

Coaching/Development matters!

It didn't matter that Chuck was scoring at a higher pace than DD. MT was putting him there no matter what. He was a f***ing idiot.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

idk why DD is getting so much hate hes Team Canada captain right now at the Splenger cup

#Legend

 

[salbutera]

I'm not sure what you think you're proving here. They weren't stuck under SL/MT....

Coaching matters. Devleopment matters. If you're stuck under a moron, you're going to have a much harder time succeeding. A guy like Crosby can overcome it, but that's too much to expect for most players. Again, look at what was happening to Caufield.

Coaching/Development matters!

It didn't matter that Chuck was scoring at a higher pace than DD. MT was putting him there no matter what. He was a f***ing idiot.

“Development” is a bullshit red herring. Yes repetition can help refine / fine tune aspects of a game but willingness / having the capacity to learn and execute teachings are purely based on elite level hunger

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

“Development” is a bullshit red herring. Yes repetition can help refine / fine tune aspects of a game but willingness / having the capacity to learn and execute teachings are purely based on elite level hunger

If you haven't learned anything from what we just saw, nothing is going to change your mind. I don't know what to tell you man....

 

[Garbageyuk]

I'm not sure what you think you're proving here. They weren't stuck under SL/MT....

Coaching matters. Devleopment matters. If you're stuck under a moron, you're going to have a much harder time succeeding. A guy like Crosby can overcome it, but that's too much to expect for most players. Again, look at what was happening to Caufield.

Coaching/Development matters!

It didn't matter that Chuck was scoring at a higher pace than DD. MT was putting him there no matter what. He was a f***ing idiot.

It does matter to an extent, but a guy like AG had many, many chances to right the ship and become a useful player - he had some good tools. He never did because he’s just dumb.

Anything he could have developed under MT, if he was held back at all, he could have done later on in different environments. Just like CC did. He didn’t. Athleticism is the thing that wanes as a player ages, not work ethic, technical knowledge, understanding of nuance, experience, etc.

The confidence thing is BS. That might affect a player for stretches, or cause a down season in the worst case, but if they are a hard worker, driven, or smart, they will succeed eventually. AG was none of those things. He was dumb and lazy, and had a pissy attitude, and those things usually can’t be overcome at the NHL level. At the end of the day, development wasn’t the issue. Some players just don’t have it.

 

[themilosh]

Ask MSL about hunger & toxicity…. where there’s a will there’s a way.

What was the excuse with the other 8-NHL teams he failed with? Weird Crosby, Malkin, Letang all seemed ok post Therrien, so were Koivu & Markov

Woe is me…

Therrien stints: you really want to argue his tenure?
MTL 1st time: brutal, run out of town.

PIT: brutal, run out of city

MTL 2nd time: ruined team, run out of town.

PHA: ruined team, flyers fans still abhor him.

 

[ReHabs]

Therrien stints: you really want to argue his tenure?
MTL 1st time: brutal, run out of town.
View attachment 627458
PIT: brutal, run out of city
View attachment 627459

MTL 2nd time: ruined team, run out of town.
View attachment 627460

PHA: ruined team, flyers fans still abhor him.
View attachment 627461

He had good results as Habs coach his second stint, and what you showed does not refute that, but if you peek under the hood the numbers were all out of whack and he was completely carried by Carey Price.

 

[salbutera]

If you haven't learned anything from what we just saw, nothing is going to change your mind. I don't know what to tell you man....

You simply can’t teach stupid people - Galchenyuk like AKos has the mental capacity of a gnat, and never showed the slightest desire & drive to learn the way Plekanec did in 3-years of AHL (including under the brilliant Therrien & Julien).

The reason so many high draft picks simply don’t pan out is they lack elite desire, hunger, determination (whatever word one wishes to use) despite their skill, to learn and keep improving.

This isn’t the 1960s / 70s even 80s where color of skin allowed coaches to keep players “down”. NHL is very big business, every coach wants to win to remain gainfully employed and will use the players who will best help them achieve said goal.

A highly skill based org in Leafs gave Galchenyuk a shot and quickly realized as did Avs that he’s simply a moron

 

[salbutera]

Therrien stints: you really want to argue his tenure?
MTL 1st time: brutal, run out of town.
View attachment 627458
PIT: brutal, run out of city
View attachment 627459

MTL 2nd time: ruined team, run out of town.
View attachment 627460

PHA: ruined team, flyers fans still abhor him.
View attachment 627461

I’ve never said Therrien was anything resembling an exceptional coach, only none of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury’s developments stalled nor did Markov, Plekanec or Gallagher w Habs.

Development is a bullshit red herring - as in all walks of life where there is a will there is a way… especially in this day & age where ownership, management & coaches all are focused on achieving as much profit$ as possible. There’s too much $ at stake for head coaches to hold players down, unless said player does not possess the “it” factor

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It does matter to an extent, but a guy like AG had many, many chances to right the ship and become a useful player - he had some good tools. He never did because he’s just dumb.

Anything he could have developed under MT, if he was held back at all, he could have done later on in different environments. Just like CC did. He didn’t. Athleticism is the thing that wanes as a player ages, not work ethic, technical knowledge, understanding of nuance, experience, etc.

Again, he outproduced DD every time he was used at number one... and then they'd send him down. He finally gets the gig AFTER we're out of the playoffs and becomes a top ten NHL scorer the rest of the way. The following season he's a point per game before injury. And after that of course we didn't give him his job back and he ran into more injury problems.

It was f***ing stupid how we handled him and then injuries finished him off. Nobody is going to say he was without warts but he was offensively gifted on a team - STARVING FOR GOALS - and we still played a midget there who was worse.

The confidence thing is BS. That might affect a player for stretches, or cause a down season in the worst case, but if they are a hard worker, driven, or smart, they will succeed eventually. AG was none of those things. He was dumb and lazy, and had a pissy attitude, and those things usually can’t be overcome at the NHL level. At the end of the day, development wasn’t the issue. Some players just don’t have it.

Almost every player who's ever played has spoken about confidence. Again, if you don't know it by now I won't be able to convince you. Caufield didn't have a pissy attitude and yet he was still held back. Still only scored one goal on the year.... the instant a new guy comes in he scores at a 50 goal pace.

How the hell can you say it doesn't matter????? I will never understand this.

It makes absolutely no sense to bury guys with talent on the 4th line. If you're going to do that then send them down. And that's what I think we should do with Slaf.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I’ve never said Therrien was anything resembling an exceptional coach, only none of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury’s developments stalled nor did Markov, Plekanec or Gallagher w Habs.

And why is that?

1. They were generational talents.
2. Mario Lemieux was on that team. He wasn't going to let an idiot coach get in the way of his development.
3. He'd have been murdered if he played Crosby that way.

And it's also worth noting that the year he was fired the Pens were bottom ten in all categories. The moment after he was fired they were top ten the rest of the way and went on to win the cup.

It's entirely possible that MT actually cost that club a cup during his tenure there. And he certainly would've cost him one had they kept him because they were out of the playoffs when he got sacked. He was the difference between missing the playoffs and a stanley cup. He's that bad.

Development is a bullshit red herring - as in all walks of life where there is a will there is a way… especially in this day & age where ownership, management & coaches all are focused on achieving as much profit$ as possible. There’s too much $ at stake for head coaches to hold players down, unless said player does not possess the “it” factor

How can you actually believe this?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Therrien stints: you really want to argue his tenure?
MTL 1st time: brutal, run out of town.

Thing is, coaching doesn't usually have that huge an impact. It's only really noticeable when you've got an exceptionally good one or an exceptionally bad one.

Montreal has had a terrible environment for decades now. It's not coincidence. It's not luck... it's systemic. And we'd have gone without a cup even longer had we not got extremely lucky in the 84 draft.

For the first time since Pollock we have a group that is commited to building the right way. Emphasis on development, trading for young talent, drafting high.... All of a sudden our picks can suddenly produce again. Caufield is a prime example of a prospect who was saved and Dach is another guy who we've reclaimed.

Great stuff.

Slafkovsky unfortunately hasn't been used that way. We've limited his minutes, put him on lower lines. I don't see how he's going to get better that way. He should be getting tons of minutes in important situations. He's not going to get that here. It might've worked if Monahan stayed healthy but that's not the case. The team's a tire fire and we're benching him in the 3rd periods now. I don't see how this is going to help him.

 

[MON4NHLTOR4MLB]

Alexei Ponikarovsky 2.0, book it.

That’s actually pretty accurate lol except he doesn’t have his shot, more of a passer. Both suck equally

 

[Nedved]

I wish this guy got to play for his country. How games would he miss? 4 games? 15 minutes a night? Call up someone that deserves some nhl ice time and let him play for his country.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Again, he outproduced DD every time he was used at number one... and then they'd send him down. He finally gets the gig AFTER we're out of the playoffs and becomes a top ten NHL scorer the rest of the way. The following season he's a point per game before injury. And after that of course we didn't give him his job back and he ran into more injury problems.

It was f***ing stupid how we handled him and then injuries finished him off. Nobody is going to say he was without warts but he was offensively gifted on a team - STARVING FOR GOALS - and we still played a midget there who was worse.

Almost every player who's ever played has spoken about confidence. Again, if you don't know it by now I won't be able to convince you. Caufield didn't have a pissy attitude and yet he was still held back. Still only scored one goal on the year.... the instant a new guy comes in he scores at a 50 goal pace.

How the hell can you say it doesn't matter????? I will never understand this.

It makes absolutely no sense to bury guys with talent on the 4th line. If you're going to do that then send them down. And that's what I think we should do with Slaf.

Caufield turned it around quick, after the coaching change. AG never did, no matter where he played or who he played under or who he played with. There’s a lot more to it than to just blame it on him not being gifted the 1C spot in MTL. Every coach had the same view of AG, it wasn’t just MT.

AG was slow, turnover prone, did not play defense, didn’t hustle, didn’t play physical, and was lazy and refused to work on his weak areas. Even when it came to just garbage time point production, he was streaky.

Tell me how a coach is supposed to play a young player with those attributes over veterans and guys that are working their asses off to be there. Just slot him right into the top line huh? It doesn’t happen, and it wouldn’t have happened anywhere else. People just like to bitch about it because it was MT.

DD was on the top line because he worked harder than AG (not hard to do), and our best offensive player had chemistry with him and wanted to play with him. I hated DD too, but there really wasn’t any other viable option.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Caufield turned it around quick, after the coaching change. AG never did

This is just plain false.

Again, he produced over and over again when used on the first line. He stopped producing after injuries.

 

[salbutera]

And why is that?

1. They were generational talents.
2. Mario Lemieux was on that team. He wasn't going to let an idiot coach get in the way of his development.
3. He'd have been murdered if he played Crosby that way.

And it's also worth noting that the year he was fired the Pens were bottom ten in all categories. The moment after he was fired they were top ten the rest of the way and went on to win the cup.

It's entirely possible that MT actually cost that club a cup during his tenure there. And he certainly would've cost him one had they kept him because they were out of the playoffs when he got sacked. He was the difference between missing the playoffs and a stanley cup. He's that bad.

How can you actually believe this?

Wasn’t aware 3rd rounders Plekanec & Letang, 6th rounder Markov were generational talents?

Way back when Markus Naslund was cast off by Pens for being a bust yet “he magically developed” w Van.

Did Nucks sprinkle some post dust to create the magic? No the player always had the “it” factor and only needed time, why didn’t Galchenyuk follow through in the same fashion? Simple he was a mental midget

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Wasn’t aware 3rd rounders Plekanec & Letang, 6th rounder Markov were generational talents?

Wasn't aware that a 30 something year old Markov would count as being developed under Therrien...

Anyways, let's move on back to the actual topic. If you want to talk about development in general, put it here:

HF Habs: - The Development Thread

Hello there guys; It seems we can count on one hand the number of successful development from Habs after 2007, which in turn left GM in desperate to sign free agents where we hit some and miss some. Is this change now related to management developmental technique or quality of prospects being...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[HuGort]

You're like a grandfather watching his 1yr old grandson wobble and blather when trying to walk and talk. And you're telling your son "I don't know, son, I don't think he's going to pan out".

Sometimes I dont know if Slaf is going to improve enough.

 

[jcbio11]

I wish this guy got to play for his country. How games would he miss? 4 games? 15 minutes a night? Call up someone that deserves some nhl ice time and let him play for his country.

Nah. We just beat the States 6 - 3 without this big dude. He can stay in Montreal and keep on being a huge bust (according to some ITT anyway).

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I wish this guy got to play for his country. How games would he miss? 4 games? 15 minutes a night? Call up someone that deserves some nhl ice time and let him play for his country.

I’d liked to have seen it too.

 

[MilesNewton]

Just stop the debate take him out of his misery its just going to get worse send him down let him develop and see some success. Easy solution at this point.