2021 Roster Thread XIX - Who's In Net

[Beef Invictus]

He gave them the one year mulligan because they didnt have to worry about ticket sales last season. We only had a handful of home games with fans in attendance and they couldnt even sell out with a capacity limit of approx 3,000. They also shoveled the goaltending and covid excuses onto Scotts desk. Im guessing none of those will fly next season. They'll need to put up or shut up (they'll shut up).

That's the thing. Why is Dillabaugh still employed?

There is no accountability. Currently Scott is our Dan Snyder and Fletcher and his advisor buddies are our collective Bruce Allen.

 

[FlyerNutter]

That's the thing. Why is Dillabaugh still employed?

There is no accountability. Currently Scott is our Dan Snyder and Fletcher and his advisor buddies are our collective Bruce Allen.

It just kind of shows they need a team president. If the owner isn't exactly a savvy hockey mind, you need a guy there to help give some oversight on the GM.

I've sure Holmgren and Clake have their toes slightly in the water, those two make appearances too often for me to not think they are involved in some capacity. Whenever a regime change happens, and it is coming at some point - they can't just give the GM carte blanche without anyone to really answer to.

 

[Rebels57]

That's the thing. Why is Dillabaugh still employed?

There is no accountability. Currently Scott is our Dan Snyder and Fletcher and his advisor buddies are our collective Bruce Allen.

I cant answer the Dillabaugh question. Guy is clearly a mediocre coach.

I stand by attendance being the determining factor and I do think Scott will give Fletch an ultimatum and if he wont fire the coachs he will fire all of them.

 

[The Madrigal]

I think he's an average coach at best.

An ''average at best coach'' who has
-673 career wins
-12 playoffs appearances
-Won a Stanley cup
-Has won the Jack Adams award twice

Coaches routinely make mistakes. Hence why ice time is a laughable metric on its own.

First of all, nobody said coaches don't make mistakes or that ice time is the end all be all so you can stop with your typical strawman. It is absolutely a factor though considering the best players typically get the most minutes, especially on defense. Tortorella's resume gives him the benefit of the doubt period. Of course you are the guy who quite consistently implies or even outright says that he knows more about hockey the majority of GM's and coaches around the league so I shouldn't be surprised.

In a nutshell though, the metrics that you decide are important mean everything and are ''proof','' and the ones you decide aren't important are irrelevant. That is your logic. It almost sounds like you are cherry picking what to give validity to and what to trash based on how it suits your own personal agenda. Funny how that works.

 

[Beef Invictus]

An ''average at best coach'' who has
-673 career wins
-12 playoffs appearances
-Won a Stanley cup
-Has won the Jack Adams award twice

First of all, nobody said coaches don't make mistakes or that ice time is the end all be all so you can stop with your typical strawman. It is absolutely a factor though considering the best players typically get the most minutes, especially on defense. Tortorella's resume gives him the benefit of the doubt period. Of course you are the guy who quite consistently implies or even outright says that he knows more about hockey the majority of GM's and coaches around the league.

In a nutshell though, the metrics that you decide are important mean everything and are ''proof','' and the ones you decide aren't important are irrelevant. That is your logic. It almost sounds like you are cherry picking what to give validity to and what to trash based on how it suits your own personal agenda. Funny how that works.

Tortorella has done little in a while. Why does he get the benefit of the doubt? Coaches can also decline, and they can be wrong.

I am certain you would be heavily criticizing him if it suited your narrative.

If coaches are not infallible, then their ice time distribution is a poor and unreliable metric. More reliable metrics based on actual results show Tortorella is erring in the role Jones is given. Why should I place stock in a flawed metric that other better metrics based on actual results disprove?

Pointing at TOI to claim a player is good is almost as bad as pointing to team wins/losses to claim Hagg is good. TOI isn't tied to results. It's tied to coach perception, which is frequently wrong.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I cant answer the Dillabaugh question. Guy is clearly a mediocre coach.

I stand by attendance being the determining factor and I do think Scott will give Fletch an ultimatum and if he wont fire the coachs he will fire all of them.

Hypothetical scenario.

Team plays average, but after a generally solid season, followed by a poor one - Hart struggles again.

Will another crap season allow GM, and HC to stay on with Hart as the sacrificial lamb?

 

[Tripod]

Need to get Jones, Risto and Zadorov....get BIG!

 

[Rebels57]

It just kind of shows they need a team president. If the owner isn't exactly a savvy hockey mind, you need a guy there to help give some oversight on the GM.

I've sure Holmgren and Clake have their toes slightly in the water, those two make appearances too often for me to not think they are involved in some capacity. Whenever a regime change happens, and it is coming at some point - they can't just give the GM carte blanche without anyone to really answer to.

100% we need a President of Hockey Ops, and I dont know who that should be

 

[The Madrigal]

Jason Myrtetus
[URL='https://twitter.com/jasonmyrt']@jasonmyrt[/URL]
Keep seeing some saying Seth Jones is not a top pair D. Granted it is on this website. If you don't believe he is a top pair D Man, you do not share that thinking with a single professional hockey evaluator. He is not Hedman or Doughty at his best. but he is a top pair D. STOP!!!

 

[The Madrigal]

Tortorella has done little in a while. Why does he get the benefit of the doubt? Coaches can also decline, and they can be wrong.

I am certain you would be heavily criticizing him if it suited your narrative.

If coaches are not infallible, then their ice time distribution is a poor and unreliable metric. More reliable metrics based on actual results show Tortorella is erring in the role Jones is given. Why should I place stock in a flawed metric that other better metrics based on actual results disprove?

Pointing at TOI to claim a player is good is almost as bad as pointing to team wins/losses to claim Hagg is good. TOI isn't tied to results. It's tied to coach perception, which is frequently wrong.

Lol, wow. You really do think you know more than a stanley cup and two time jack adams winning coach. Can't even make this shit up anymore. Beyond that you completely missed the point that myself and ghosts beer have been making because you are too busy doubling down on pushing your agenda and throwing out one strawman after another.

 

[Tripod]

Needs a little photoshop.

 

[flyerslducks]

would you rather have jones at 8 or hayes at 7? you cant say neither...

 

[Tripod]

would you rather have jones at 8 or hayes at 7? you cant say neither...

Trouba at 8

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lol, wow. You really do think you know more than a stanley cup and two time jack adams winning coach. Can't even make this shit up anymore. Beyond that you completely missed the point that myself and ghosts beer have been making because you are too busy doubling down on pushing your agenda and throwing out one strawman after another.

You constantly act like you know more than experts. Your hypocrisy is hilarious. Despite being steadfastly wrong on more player assessments than anyone here, to boot.

Your point is built upon a nonsense stat: TOI. Time on ice does not prove quality. It proves coach preference. Babcock won a Cup. His preference for Cleary was still incredibly dumb and no amount of TOI made that guy a worthwhile regular top six fixture.

Or do you think Cleary's TOI is proof that he was actually better than he was? You must have been a big MacDonald fan too.

 

[The Madrigal]

You constantly act like you know more than experts. Your hypocrisy is hilarious. Despite being steadfastly wrong on more player assessments than anyone here, to boot.

Your point is built upon a nonsense stat: TOI. Time on ice does not prove quality. It proves coach preference. Babcock won a Cup. His preference for Cleary was still incredibly dumb and no amount of TOI made that guy a worthwhile regular top six fixture.

Or do you think Cleary's TOI is proof that he was actually better than he was? You must have been a big MacDonald fan too.

Point out where I said ''ice time proves quality.'' Never said it once, not my point at all. As far as my point ''being built on a nonsense stat,'' you have yet to understand and properly address my point when discussing this with me or you simply choose to strawman because you have nothing else. I'd spell it all out for you for the 5th time but it's getting old and I'm literally arguing with a guy who thinks he knows more than John Tortorella and every GM in the league.

 

[Striiker]

"Beyond that you completely missed the point that myself and ghosts beer have been making"

#echochamber

 

[Beef Invictus]

Point out where I said ''ice time proves quality.'' Never said it once, not my point at all. As far as my point ''being built on a nonsense stat,'' you have yet to understand and properly address my point when discussing this with me or you simply choose to strawman because you have nothing else. I'd spell it all out for you for the 5th time but it's getting old and I'm literally arguing with a guy who thinks he knows more than John Tortorella and every GM in the league.

This is hilarious backpedaling. After turning to how much he plays to try and prove that he's better than he is, now you claim you didn't do that.

Pray tell, what was the point of repeatedly bringing up how much Torts uses him (which is measured by time on ice) and saying it proves he's great if that's not what you were trying to do?

Amazing stuff.

 

[TB87]

I don’t see @JojoTheWhale around here much these days.

I miss him

 

[Prongo]

would you rather have jones at 8 or hayes at 7? you cant say neither...

Easily Jones. Position that is at least tradable and being the premium handiness too. Hayes just blows.

 

[The Madrigal]

This is hilarious backpedaling. After turning to how much he says to prove that he's better than he is, now you claim you didn't say that.

Amazing stuff.

Seriously, is this FN candid camera. Is Ashton Kutcher about to show up circa 2004 and tell me I got punkd. Just when I think you can't sink any lower, lol. Your constant projecting is alarming homie. You accuse me of back peddling while responding to a post where I straight up called you out and challenged you to prove that I said ''ice time equals quality'' and you not only ignore that but then try to turn things around on me. Of course what should I expect considering it was a made up strawman and you know damn well I never said that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Seriously, is this FN candid camera. Is Ashton Kutcher about to show up circa 2004 and tell me I got punkd. Just when I think you can't sink any lower, lol. Your constant projecting is alarming homie. You accuse me of back peddling while responding to a post where I straight up called you out and challenged you to prove that I said ''ice time equals quality'' and you not only ignore that but then try to turn things around on me. Of course what should I expect considering it was a made up strawman and you know damn well I never said that.

You're melting down.

You turned to how much Tortorella uses Jones as proof that Jones is higher quality than he is. When this was debunked as reliable proof of quality, you began this ongoing tantrum where you try to gaslight the forum into believing you didn't spend your day arguing the very thing you argued while painting yourself as some victim of a trap laid by me.

Truly bizarre. We are obviously done here since all you've got left is this.

 

[FlyerNutter]

100% we need a President of Hockey Ops, and I dont know who that should be

No idea really. I've been trying to dabble into the hypotheticals of a next GM, and HC combo. Really just initial research so take for what that's worth.

Gronborg remains my #1 target for HC, or at the very least trying to get him into the organization as some capacity. It might fail miserably, but I'd gamble.

GM's, well... Zito was a name that was out there before they ran with Fletcher, I liked him. MacFarland is the assistant GM for the Avalanche, Tulsky is a guy that by all accounts a leader in Carolina's focus on analytics and vice president of hockey management/strategy. Scott Nichol (NSH) is another one along with Mathieu Darche (TB). Just names for now, but it's kind of my soon to be focus on who I'd like to see control the rebuilding kingdom next.

 

[Magua]

100% we need a President of Hockey Ops, and I dont know who that should be

It would be Dean Lombardi.

Somehow he’s still with the team. I really don’t think this organization needs to appoint another total HockeyGuy, which is what it would be. Who picks that President? Dave Scott and Homer? Probably changes nothing, just further solidifies their issues by making the chain of command bigger.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Any team president is probably coming from some small internal circle, so I'll float Barber or Holmgren.

 

[Prongo]

Chicago is supposedly after Jones as well. Let’s hope like hell they trade for him because if not they like Hamilton too.