2021 Roster Thread XIX - Who's In Net

[Striiker]

I think he'll get more in the 8-9 range but if his aav creeps closer to 10 than 9 the league has gone insane lol

Well Hayes is “worth every penny” at $7.1, so an elite #1 is definitely worth quite a bit more. We’ll be lucky to get him for under $12m.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I knew you'd do this. I knew you'd miss the point on purpose and try to act like I'm comparing MacD and Jones.

What I'm doing is showing you that coaches are not infallible beings. They make errors. Holding up coaching usage of players as any objective measure of player value is nonsense.

The fact is that numerous players outplayed MacDonald and got less time and less prominent usage. Similarly, Jones has been outplayed by teammates and yet he's been treated like he's been better than he has been. Jones usage is based on reputation, not actual results. Just like Provorov.

Coaches aren't gods. They're often wrong. They often function like inefficient pre-moneyball baseball managers working on gut feelings and accomplishments long in the past, rather than objective analysis of results.

Jones' usage is a reason to criticize Torts, not a reason to pretend Jones is secretly better than he's been.

It's funny to see the people who complain the most about Ghost and Sanheim clamor to add someone on their tier who will cost twice as much. And then grasping at desperate and nonsensical things to justify this lust.

Coaches aren't gods and neither are message board posters.

Sure Torts could've been wrong to think Jones was their best all around defenseman over Werenski and Savard (and Gavrikov),

You and other posters also could be wrong in saying he wasn't.

 

[Starat327]

I think he'll get more in the 8-9 range but if his aav creeps closer to 10 than 9 the league has gone insane lol

Remember who is vying to sign him.

 

[DancingPanther]

Four playoffs in his first four full seasons after arriving mid-season on a below-.500 team. (Missed playoffs this season on a lame duck squad.) A 108 point season. 98 and 97 point seasons. The last team to beat Tampa Bay in the playoffs (sweeping them in 18/19). Beating Toronto in the bubble last season. All while playing on teams that no one would mistake for the Tampa Bay Lightning or Colorado Avalanche.

Of which he had little impact towards. His presence on the ice did not make his team more dangerous.

 

[trostol]

i don't much have a dog in this fight. Would Jones help the Flyers..most likely..is he the best thing since sliced bread..not in a long shot. But there is no way in hell..that i am giving up Farabee, as i seen rumored, in a trade for less than sliced bread

 

[FlyerNutter]

Imagine a team dying to blow its load, and bend over to the contract demands of a guy that isn’t even close to being a true top dman in the league - when Eichel is available.

These guys are a shitstain of a management team.

 

[Striiker]

Imagine a team dying to blow its load, and bend over to the contract demands of a guy that isn’t even close to being a true top dman in the league - when Eichel is available.

These guys are a shitstain of a management team.

And the media and idiot casual fans will worship them for it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Coaches aren't gods and neither are message board posters.

Sure Torts could've been wrong to think Jones was their best all around defenseman over Werenski and Savard (and Gavrikov),

You and other posters also could be wrong in saying he wasn't.

I mean there are measurable results confirming my stance and there aren't measurable results confirming your stance, which is probably why you've elected to go with "his coach uses him a lot" as proof despite there being an endless list of players overused by coaches.

 

[FlyerNutter]

And the media and idiot casual fans will worship them for it.

Imagine the celebrations if they manage a first round victory.

Screams of jubilation and the clinking of glasses will be heard throughout the land.

That’s the thing with organizations valuing and paying guys like Hayes and Jones to be something they aren’t. It’s ohhh so predictable.

That dream of making the playoffs, man we are so close to that ultimate goal.

Calgary East.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Calgary East.

This is truth and I cannot verbalize how deeply I hate it.

 

[FlyerNutter]

This is truth and I cannot verbalize how deeply I hate it.

When the Wright brothers were out there trying to perfect flight, you’ve got Chuck standing outside with a kite proclaiming how amazing it is.

The little camera used for colonoscopies is more of a visionary.

-You’ve got Pietrangelo and I’ll bet my as Chuck didn’t make a play.
-Panarin, and I’ll bet my ass he didn’t make a play.
-Number of quality coaches available this summer, and I’ll bet my ass he didn’t explore it.
-Eichel available?
-Hamilton available?

Dead man walking, nothing more.

 

[snoop88]

They wanted Pietrangelo and tried to make it happen.

Petro just had zero interest in coming here to be a part of this mediocrity. His heart was set on Vegas.

 

[Rebels57]

Unfortunately AV is more likely to encourage him to do more of this.

That's another hangup for me beyond paying elite prices for non-elite play; AV is an atrocious match for Jones.

AV will be gone by Thanksgiving unless he's changed his system so don't worry too much about that one.

 

[Beef Invictus]

AV will be gone by Thanksgiving unless he's changed his system so don't worry too much about that one.

I'm highly skeptical of that. Fletcher happily kept Yeo too long too.

 

[The Madrigal]

So a guy who says he thinks Torts is a good coach, is also saying that Torts giving Jones the most ice time on his team is irrelevant. Wow.

 

[Mayo Masseuse]

Lies. I'm willing to have an intelligent conversation with anyone on this board who is willing to do the same. The problem is there are a lot of people who don't want to do that and are only here to push agendas and/or troll.

I am game for an intelligent, unbiased conversation. Not all of us troll incessantly.

 

[kyuss]

i don't much have a dog in this fight. Would Jones help the Flyers..most likely..is he the best thing since sliced bread..not in a long shot. But there is no way in hell..that i am giving up Farabee, as i seen rumored, in a trade for less than sliced bread

There were also rumors Farabee is the only untouchable on the team, but since everyone else here is running around with their hair on fire, you might as well pretend he's gone and light your locks.

 

[dragonoffrost]

i don't much have a dog in this fight. Would Jones help the Flyers..most likely..is he the best thing since sliced bread..not in a long shot. But there is no way in hell..that i am giving up Farabee, as i seen rumored, in a trade for less than sliced bread

Farabee, Myers and a Prospect.... NO THANKS!

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

So a f***ing idiot who thinks Trouba is better than Jones thinks that Torts giving Jones more ice time than a defender he never had is irrelevant. Wow. Derp de derp.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I mean there are measurable results confirming my stance and there aren't measurable results confirming your stance, which is probably why you've elected to go with "his coach uses him a lot" as proof despite there being an endless list of players overused by coaches.

That depends on how much stock you put into these "measurable results." They don't "confirm" anything because they, just like coaches and message board posters, are far from infallible.

 

[Prongo]

When the Wright brothers were out there trying to perfect flight, you’ve got Chuck standing outside with a kite proclaiming how amazing it is.

The little camera used for colonoscopies is more of a visionary.

-You’ve got Pietrangelo and I’ll bet my as Chuck didn’t make a play.
-Panarin, and I’ll bet my ass he didn’t make a play.
-Number of quality coaches available this summer, and I’ll bet my ass he didn’t explore it.
-Eichel available?
-Hamilton available?

Dead man walking, nothing more.

Supposedly there was an east coast team that was interested in Pietrangelo. I believe some have said publicly it was/heard it was Philly.

Panarin was set on New York. I’m not defending chuck but we have no idea if they contacted the agent or not. I would assume yes because as GM you have to contact anyone of that caliber.

I remember wanting Coach Q and some around here shit on that idea….. again now they look like asses because he was high and above what was out there.

 

[bennysflyers16]

f*** it get me Jones and Laine, I like watching this place burn, my new hobby.

And the fact some are discussing that fans proposal is ridiculous.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Supposedly there was an east coast team that was interested in Pietrangelo. I believe some have said publicly it was/heard it was Philly.

Panarin was set on New York. I’m not defending chuck but we have no idea if they contacted the agent or not. I would assume yes because as GM you have to contact anyone of that caliber.

I remember wanting Coach Q and some around here shit on that idea….. again now they look like asses because he was high and above what was out there.

I would bet anything every single GM has called about Jones, they would be fired if they didn't. Doesn't mean they should trade for him, but of course they call to gauge the market.

 

[BritainStix]

So no one really answered me,but did Jones have a down year statistically, or has he always looked bad analytically?

 

[Magua]

Seth Jones is used as a #1. Any team that acquires him for a king's ransom will continue to use him as a #1. It's not an evaluation of how he does in that usage. What a dull conversation.