Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[tbrown33]

Not understanding the Maata hate around here, he's been fine since he got here, he's a 3rd pairing D, who eats up minutes, definitely play him over Clague and Strand.....

I will continue later on

By what metric has Maatta been "fine," outside of a couple weeks as Walker's partner on 3rd pair late last season?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Tkacheck, no PP time, 4 games played, averaged 2:33 minutes of PP Time.......at least have your facts somewhat meet your feelings?

The undersigning of dmen? Really? 15 signed vs, COL 15 signed vs TB 15 signed vs WPG 15 signed, again, facts don't meet your feelings.

Not understanding the Maata hate around here, he's been fine since he got here, he's a 3rd pairing D, who eats up minutes, definitely play him over Clague and Strand.....

I will continue later on

Oh god, don't bother. Can't believe I fell into your bad faith argument trap. No reason to chat with you further, thanks.

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

Its déjà vu all over again. I remember regimes gone past that also kept signing vets to fill out the roster rather than playing the kids. a couple decades ago that's what needed to happen thanks to horrid drafting. DL did the same with the likes of McCauley, Cloutier, Preissing, etc. As a long time fan I have always been sold a bill of goods about draftees(and as an optimist kept bellying up to the bar). The 90s were bleak. Really, only the current vet draftees have accomplished something, Kopi, Drew, JQ and DB. I really hope the next crop isn't just smoke and mirrors. Lucy pulling the football...

 

[Schmooley]

Who would you put in his place, that takes the punishment in front of the net etc?

Literally anyone. Havent seen Brown do much of anything in front of the net this year. You have any examples?
The only punishment that happens when Brown is on the ice is on the fans that spend their hard earned cash to watch him play 20 minutes a night.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Absolutely agree. However I don't think Moore has been playing bad. He has played a decent game most nights. He plays a solid game. That being said, his offense has dried up faster than Austin Wagner hitting the glass on a breakaway. We simply can't afford that in our lineup right now.

I'm usually a Trevor Moore apologist. I see great value in his game even when he's not scoring but like you point out the issue is how many of those guys do you need?

You can see it when we're on the PP--the risk-averse nature of the roster building means you just have a bunch of two-way guys and no 'offensive specialists' outside Durzi. You could easily have room on the roster for at least one line of maybe more risky offensive guys that you can deploy in PP situations or in the Ozone. That's what I was under the impression Danault was for--him and Kopitar eat the hard minutes so the youth don't have to--and that really just hasn't been the case outside of Kupari but that's not exactly high octane offense, he's a Trevor Lewis. Still blows my mind that Vilardi has had harder starts than Danault. Like what in the world.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Gimme a break with the message stuff. They did it to Grundstrom who was playing well and a lot better than Moore at the time.
He really hasnt been that energy guy at all. Not even close. Maybe this last roadtrip he picked up the pace a little. He barely finishes checks, doesnt make plays, doesnt get pucks to the net or on net. Basically a winger version of Nick Shore. Stays in position and doesnt make glaring mistakes that end up in his own net.

Don't know what to tell if you if you don't think Moore has been the energy guy on that line......I mean, water isn't wet either.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Literally anyone. Havent seen Brown do much of anything in front of the net this year. You have any examples?
The only punishment that happens when Brown is on the ice is on the fans that spend their hard earned cash to watch him play 20 minutes a night.

So you think Kupari could absorb that punishment? Interesting hot take on that one....

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I’ll take literally any GM/coach who actually have a vision and an identity for the team that they want to execute. Anyone. The kids aren’t developing not only because they’re not playing but because they’re not being given any direction as to the identity/culture of the franchise and where they fit into that.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

By what metric has Maatta been "fine," outside of a couple weeks as Walker's partner on 3rd pair late last season?

View attachment 492691

Well, trying to look at that chart,

Looks like he's comparable to Walker, Bjornfot, when it comes to CF%, xGA, and SCFx,

I mean by that chart, Wolanin is our best Dman right now...right?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Oh god, don't bother. Can't believe I fell into your bad faith argument trap. No reason to chat with you further, thanks.

Your argument was Tkachev did not get any PP time...that is demonstrably false,

Your argument was they didn't enough D, again, demonstrably false.

Maata is definitely subjective, I dont see a problem with him, you do, for some reason, I think it has something to do with Clague

You think it's a bad faith argument that you brought bad facts? I can't help you on that.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Kings News: - [Hammond] LA Kings Have Hired Darryl Sutter As New Head Coach

Give that a read

Aging like a fine wine since 2014... if you're quoted here, sorry not sorry.

Just when I thought I could be happy about TM getting fired. This...

He is TM2.0

I really don't expect much to change.

I have always been in support of Dean until now.

F this. Someone start a speculation thread for our next GM.

should i start the fire/rant DL thread now or......

Lombardi should get a job at the tire shop.

He's so good at retread.

I'm NOT on board with this move at all. I just see this as a lateral move. I guess I should have known better then to expect Dean to go after anything other than a defensive minded, grind it out, win or lose 2-1 coach. Dean needs to take a long hard look at the roster that HE put together and realize that this team is not currently built to have success with that style. If the hire officially happens I'll do my best to approach things with an open mind, but if this looks like the same team after another 20-25 games, Lombardi better start packing his bags.

I was so excited and now I'm just disappointed.. I should have expected this. The team doesn't fit the system. That is why it didn't work with Murray. Now we get back TM2.0

Not a big fan of Sutter. Him and his brother Brent are both overrated as coaches. Plus he's brutal to look at and listen to in interviews haha.

Really wanted to see a fresh face behind the bench, instead its rehash city. I'm starting to think Lombardi's not as with it as I thought he once was....

Really wanted to see a fresh face behind the bench, instead its rehash city. I'm starting to think Lombardi's not as with it as I thought he once was....

Very disappointed, but not surprised.

Who is going to be the Kings next GM? Lombardi just put his job on the back of Sutter.

You have got to be kidding me! If Sutter is indeed the next coach then I'm all for getting rid of Lombardi. I've been a supportive of him but this clown Sutter has done jack!

DL just insists on doing things the hard way. I've been a supporter of what he's doing here for a while but my confidence in him is waning by the day. Things had better get turned around in a hurry or I just can't see how DL keeps his job over the summer.

For the first time in 5 years I am starting to question Lombardi. Like they said on hockey night, he hired a guy 29 other teams were NOT after...No one was after Crawford or Terry Murray either. So this is his 3rd coach that no one wanted? I don't get it.

Why can't we go after coaches that other teams are bidding against like Dineen, Boucher, Eakins, etc...

A younger coach will be willing to put in more of the hard work, video work and board work....what does Sutter have to prove, he has coached 3 teams and GM'd one of those 3?

I just don't get it. Why doesn't Lombardi go after an unproven coach...an up and coming guy in the AHL? This is the new trend in the NHL. Hell, even before the Blues hired Hitchcock they tried with Payne....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Your argument was Tkachev did not get any PP time...that is demonstrably false,

Your argument was they didn't enough D, again, demonstrably false.

Maata is definitely subjective, I dont see a problem with him, you do, for some reason, I think it has something to do with Clague

You think it's a bad faith argument that you brought bad facts? I can't help you on that.

It was that Tkachev was banished to the 4th line and then subsequently to the minors where he is subsequently taking time from prospects, and that the org obviously didn't do their pro scouting on him anyway to be so shocked at what he is as a player.

It was that they relatively didn't sign enough dmen--to be overflowing with forwards such that bluechippers are getting pushed down the depth chart but underflowing with dmen such that you need to enter a game PTOing THREE Players is bad.

Maatta is not only subjective, objectively this year he's been the worst d-man on the roster by a NUMBER of metrics and it's not even close.

It's bad faith because you deliberately spliced ALL of the above three points down into what you WANTED to see and even those were cherry picked from amongst the MANY points I've made all year.

So yeah, enjoy chatting with yourself from now on, I tried from a number of angles but you're so closed-minded to anyone else's ideas contrary to yours that it's not a 'discussion', it's just you selecting bullet points from a list so you can say 'you're wrong,' not keep talking around the issue to form even a slightly different opinion.

 

[tbrown33]

Well, trying to look at that chart,

Looks like he's comparable to Walker, Bjornfot, when it comes to CF%, xGA, and SCFx,

I mean by that chart, Wolanin is our best Dman right now...right?

How about you try arguing in good faith? Wolanin has played in 7 games (and yes, he's been heads and shoulders above Maatta by both eye test and any number you'd like to point to in that small sample).

Maatta has over 870 minutes of data there and it's all bad.

Bjornfot hasn't been a world beater either. He's also 20 years old (including 19 year old minutes in the chart above), and has been better and IMPROVING regardless. If you want to give someone the "been fine" designation, it's him. Maatta has regressed from end of year last year and is one of the worst dmen in the NHL.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It was that Tkachev was banished to the 4th line and then subsequently to the minors where he is subsequently taking time from prospects, and that the org obviously didn't do their pro scouting on him anyway to be so shocked at what he is as a player.

It was that they relatively didn't sign enough dmen--to be overflowing with forwards such that bluechippers are getting pushed down the depth chart but underflowing with dmen such that you need to enter a game PTOing THREE Players is bad.

Maatta is not only subjective, objectively this year he's been the worst d-man on the roster by a NUMBER of metrics and it's not even close.

It's bad faith because you deliberately spliced ALL of the above three points down into what you WANTED to see and even those were cherry picked from amongst the MANY points I've made all year.

So yeah, enjoy chatting with yourself from now on, I tried from a number of angles but you're so closed-minded to anyone else's ideas contrary to yours that it's not a 'discussion', it's just you selecting bullet points from a list so you can say 'you're wrong,' not keep talking around the issue to form even a slightly different opinion.

PTOing Dman is a result of INJURIES not signing enough of them, I mean f***, Tampa would be in the same goddamn problem, if they had 4 or 5 Dman go down.....you realize that right?

As far as Tkachev, you think it's that they didn't do enough pro scouting on him? I mean, I don't care who you are, you don't know how you are going to play in the NHL from the KHL....until you get to the NHL, but yea, that's a real f***ing hill to die on there for f*** sake. Banished to the 4th line, he played 4 games, not that well, and you are pissed he's taking time from.....who exactly? There's exactly SIX forward prospects that are playing right now, SEVEN if you count Dudas, tell me who do you think he is taking time away from, in a league that dresses 12 forwards regularly, and has a rule that you HAVE to dress 5 "veterans" etc. Tell me something, do you think if a prospect can't outplay Tkachev, that he should just be handed minutes?

I mean, I get it, you dont like Blake, you think Byfield, Turcotte, Brandt, and whomever should be up here playing 30 minutes a game and if they aren't, that means we aren't developing them....I mean shit man, you are losing your shit over Turcotte....and his WHOLE 50 games pro......guy hasn't even had a full season pro, and people are losing their shit that he's not playing 2nd line center in the best league in the world......batshit crazy.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

How about you try arguing in good faith? Wolanin has played in 7 games (and yes, he's been heads and shoulders above Maatta by both eye test and any number you'd like to point to in that small sample).

Maatta has over 870 minutes of data there and it's all bad.

Bjornfot hasn't been a world beater either. He's also 20 years old (including 19 year old minutes in the chart above), and has been better and IMPROVING regardless. If you want to give someone the "been fine" designation, it's him. Maatta has regressed from end of year last year and is one of the worst dmen in the NHL.

Bjornfot is on track to be a stellar # 3dman, absolutely,

Matta has been fine as a #6, you say he's one of the worst Dmen in the league, that's just hyperbole at it's finest.

Shit I don't even care about Maata, keep him, dump him, he doesn't change a single thing on the team, when we have our full options at D, he's not even an after though, but to bitch about losing Clague over Matta, thats just.....again, batshit crazy.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean, I get it, you dont like Blake, you think Byfield, Turcotte, Brandt, and whomever should be up here playing 30 minutes a game and if they aren't, that means we aren't developing them....I mean shit man, you are losing your shit over Turcotte....and his WHOLE 50 games pro......guy hasn't even had a full season pro, and people are losing their shit that he's not playing 2nd line center in the best league in the world......batshit crazy.

Yep! That's exactly what we're all arguing. See? Good faith discussion.

Now if you'll excuse us, Luc, the adults that are capable of non-hyperbolic discussion are talking.

 

[Bandit]

Oh god, who let this guy get the wifi password back? Things were pretty quiet around here for a long while...

 

[Dave33]

I not only posted angrily on that Sutter thread, I sent Lieweke an email. He responded about trusting in the front office. I've never been so happy to be wrong.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Oh god, who let this guy get the wifi password back? Things were pretty quiet around here for a long while...

You guys hit the doomsday bullshit alert too many times this year.....figured it was time to step back in.

Seriously everyone is shitting their drawers because a guy who has only played 50 games PRO hockey total, isn't playing in the NHL, or a guy who was going to make the team, but broke his damned ankle, isn't playing on the team,

I mean f***, the argument is LITERALLY....yea but see what Anaheim did, yea, they plugged in Zegras, a 2019 pick, and then plugged in a guy who couldn't make it in Columbus, Milano, and a guy who may or may not be top six in Comtois, a guy who spent 4 years playing 4th line minutes, and Getzlaf and Rakell, and everyone is amazed like that's the answer.....

Batshit crazy, to think that ANA has found an answer when they haven't done jack shit either.......and has no where NEAR the amount of young assets that LA does.

 

[tbrown33]

Bjornfot is on track to be a stellar # 3dman, absolutely,

Matta has been fine as a #6, you say he's one of the worst Dmen in the league, that's just hyperbole at it's finest.

Shit I don't even care about Maata, keep him, dump him, he doesn't change a single thing on the team, when we have our full options at D, he's not even an after though, but to bitch about losing Clague over Matta, thats just.....again, batshit crazy.

2nd worst in the NHL in xGF% over last two seasons among regular defensemen, and up there in many other categories too. 3rd worst in scoring chance %. But yes, it's "batshit crazy"

 

[Bandit]

You guys hit the doomsday bullshit alert too many times this year.....figured it was time to step back in.

Seriously everyone is shitting their drawers because a guy who has only played 50 games PRO hockey total, isn't playing in the NHL, or a guy who was going to make the team, but broke his damned ankle, isn't playing on the team,

I mean f***, the argument is LITERALLY....yea but see what Anaheim did, yea, they plugged in Zegras, a 2019 pick, and then plugged in a guy who couldn't make it in Columbus, Milano, and a guy who may or may not be top six in Comtois, a guy who spent 4 years playing 4th line minutes, and Getzlaf and Rakell, and everyone is amazed like that's the answer.....

Batshit crazy, to think that ANA has found an answer when they haven't done jack shit either.......and has no where NEAR the amount of young assets that LA does.

There's only one person here posting like a chipmunk on speed. Last I checked nobody's shitting in their pants either, well except for maybe @LT Dan but that's a different matter.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

2nd worst in the NHL in xGF% over last two seasons among regular defensemen, and up there in many other categories too. 3rd worst in scoring chance %. But yes, it's "batshit crazy"

View attachment 492706

Oh shit....we are only using one metric now? Why didn't you tell me

Curious, why didn't you use xGA% you know.....goals against.....as....a defenseman? Instead of expected goals for?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Oh shit....we are only using one metric now? Why didn't you tell me

Curious, why didn't you use xGA% you know.....goals against.....as....a defenseman? Instead of expected goals for?

Let me answer my own question, I didn't see it correctly

 

[RaymondReddington]

Who would you put in his place, that takes the punishment in front of the net etc?

How about Lemieux? Grundstrom? Arvidsson?

What I care more about is that the Kings power play is horrible, and has been for awhile.
I watched the Caps feed Ovechkin all PP long...I saw him play all 2 minutes on PP...I saw him on PP basically standing on the ice at the blue line and his spot upon entry.
We have a world-class elite sniper in Kalyev, with an incredible shot. On a team hurting for goals, esp PP.
Why in hell is he not in the exact same role as Ovechkin on the Kings...it couldn't be worse than what I'm watching.
(I thought Kovalchuk could have been used in the same role...but wasn't)

 

[tbrown33]

Oh shit....we are only using one metric now? Why didn't you tell me

Curious, why didn't you use xGA% you know.....goals against.....as....a defenseman? Instead of expected goals for?

It weighs both, genius. xGF% = xGF/xGA.