Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[bland]

Once again, a great plan in theory, which is exceedingly difficult to do in real life. DL wasn't ready to move on from anyone in 2015, so I guess we all have our fantasies that get us through a day. Then of course there's not a GM alive that would trade his 1C when the team is top 5 overall, so no real chance to trade a guy like Kopitar in 2016. No organization, let alone a GM, is going to let him walk for nothing if he wants to stay either.

If Byfield is the real deal, then the Kings have a chance to build a contender, and then it will matter who the GM is. If he's just another guy, then the Kings will just be another team, no matter who the GM is.

It's actually very easy to accomplish, it happens in all other sports and it happens in hockey quite often. What's happening here is an overly romanticized call back of events where the heroes of the organization's first Cups are held in even higher esteem than their real value dictates.

Kopitar has rarely been a top 5 center throughout his career, maybe two seasons in total - out of the top 10 more often than not. An absolutely terrific player who will be missed dearly when he leaves, but by no means the sort of "legend" who deserves to write his own fairy tale ending at the expense or organizational growth.

Has it been forgotten that Lombardi built his team by moving on from his team's two "best" players in Demitra and Visnovsky? Gretzky, Dionne, Nichols, Blake, Robitaille all moved on at some point.

This organization is not par for the course, it is actually the extreme example of retirement contracts gone awry. Folks keep saying it wasn't realistic, but that is a biased opinion that can be disproven.

 

[King'sPawn]

Proof that I'm screwed no matter what I say.

But yes GBH believe it or not it's possible to be positive and see growth and still have criticisms and bland yes obviously I still have some of those same worries (especially the vets triple shifting) but when I'm seeing the youth outplay the vets with so much regularity no matter how dumb their usage is I see progress.

There's this major disconnect between apologists who can't accept any criticisms levied about decisions and critics who can't accept there are some positives, and it's a difficult situation to navigate.

There are some things the organization does very well. And they should be called out. Similarly, things that are disagreeable should be called out. As far as organizational direction, it's difficult. They need to get better and younger in the core. Missing the playoffs again, especially after the expectation, is not acceptable. However, the org has to recognize the long term need of having a younger core take over.

That's what's so frustrating about the deployment and usage. They have a good mix of vets, journeymen, and rookies. The vets and journeymen should be utilized to buoy the talented youth and put them in a position to lead and succeed.

Those who are celebrating not being eliminated from the playoffs yet are missing the big picture of developing the youth. Those who are hating the "black hole" fail to recognize the Kings need to make the playoffs, even if they aren't cup contenders, just to get experience.

And trying to point out where the organization is struggling in different facets here makes you a homer, a whiner, or somehow both?

 

[KingsFan7824]

It's actually very easy to accomplish, it happens in all other sports and it happens in hockey quite often. What's happening here is an overly romanticized call back of events where the heroes of the organization's first Cups are held in even higher esteem than their real value dictates.

Very easy. As long as you don't account for DL not wanting to trade them, the organization not wanting to get rid if them, or them not wanting to leave. And then having the Kings as a top 5 overall team the day Kopitar was re-signed.

 

[Steve Zissou]

I want a hot asian chick with a huge rack who is 20 years younger than me....since thats not an option guess Ill stick with my wife

Finally this thread is starting to see some big potential.

 

[crassbonanza]

There's this major disconnect between apologists who can't accept any criticisms levied about decisions and critics who can't accept there are some positives, and it's a difficult situation to navigate.

There are some things the organization does very well. And they should be called out. Similarly, things that are disagreeable should be called out. As far as organizational direction, it's difficult. They need to get better and younger in the core. Missing the playoffs again, especially after the expectation, is not acceptable. However, the org has to recognize the long term need of having a younger core take over.

That's what's so frustrating about the deployment and usage. They have a good mix of vets, journeymen, and rookies. The vets and journeymen should be utilized to buoy the talented youth and put them in a position to lead and succeed.

Those who are celebrating not being eliminated from the playoffs yet are missing the big picture of developing the youth. Those who are hating the "black hole" fail to recognize the Kings need to make the playoffs, even if they aren't cup contenders, just to get experience.

And trying to point out where the organization is struggling in different facets here makes you a homer, a whiner, or somehow both?

I think the issue for many is that the off ice personnel are fairly unlikable. Blake has his history with the fanbase and Luc's jovial persona has really started to come across as insincere. TMac was the opposing coach for the reverse sweep and comes across as a bit of an ass when he is interviewed. Faust has the charisma of a cardboard box and his calls make the games worse. All of these pieces came to their current position after BLuc forced out Lombardi/Sutter with claims that they expect the team to be competing for Stanley Cups. Over the next 4 seasons the team made the playoffs once and were swept in that sole appearance. The entire impetus for the takeover was that they expected more success and they haven't had any, which is likely why they began abandoning the development aspect to some extent(and explains Kovy, WD, etc).

My point is that with such an unlikable group it becomes a lot easier to notice the negatives.

 

[YAYSAY]

Good attempt at downplaying the situation...

Vilardi looked brilliant in the pre-season, then the real games started and he looked like a bum. He deserved to be sent back down -- but I do think it's time for another shot.

The whole team deserved to be sent down at that point.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It's actually very easy to accomplish, it happens in all other sports and it happens in hockey quite often. What's happening here is an overly romanticized call back of events where the heroes of the organization's first Cups are held in even higher esteem than their real value dictates.

Kopitar has rarely been a top 5 center throughout his career, maybe two seasons in total - out of the top 10 more often than not. An absolutely terrific player who will be missed dearly when he leaves, but by no means the sort of "legend" who deserves to write his own fairy tale ending at the expense or organizational growth.

Has it been forgotten that Lombardi built his team by moving on from his team's two "best" players in Demitra and Visnovsky? Gretzky, Dionne, Nichols, Blake, Robitaille all moved on at some point.

This organization is not par for the course, it is actually the extreme example of retirement contracts gone awry. Folks keep saying it wasn't realistic, but that is a biased opinion that can be disproven.

It happens quite often? Ok, name me a team that has traded it's franchise star player directly after a championship.....with no other influences (trade requested, financial hardship etc)

 

[Bandit]

Finally this thread is starting to see some big potential.

God damn those half Japanese girls… do it to me every time.

 

[bland]

It happens quite often? Ok, name me a team that has traded it's franchise star player directly after a championship.....with no other influences (trade requested, financial hardship etc)

Lots of star players have left their franchises within an offseason or two after winning Cups either via trade or free agency. Off the top of my head, Gretzky, Messier, Niedermayer, Fedorov, if it was good enough for those better players...

Modano left Dallas, Keith left Chicago, all at stages of their careers not different to the ages of our core now. I am sure there are plenty of others if I cared to google it. Point is that sentimentality isn't necessarily a strength, and mass sentimentality has proven to be a liability here.

 

[bland]

There's this major disconnect between apologists who can't accept any criticisms levied about decisions and critics who can't accept there are some positives, and it's a difficult situation to navigate.

There are some things the organization does very well. And they should be called out. Similarly, things that are disagreeable should be called out. As far as organizational direction, it's difficult. They need to get better and younger in the core. Missing the playoffs again, especially after the expectation, is not acceptable. However, the org has to recognize the long term need of having a younger core take over.

That's what's so frustrating about the deployment and usage. They have a good mix of vets, journeymen, and rookies. The vets and journeymen should be utilized to buoy the talented youth and put them in a position to lead and succeed.

Those who are celebrating not being eliminated from the playoffs yet are missing the big picture of developing the youth. Those who are hating the "black hole" fail to recognize the Kings need to make the playoffs, even if they aren't cup contenders, just to get experience.

And trying to point out where the organization is struggling in different facets here makes you a homer, a whiner, or somehow both?

Failing to recognize that the team needs to make the playoffs for experience?

No, I recognize it and categorically reject it. If it happens organically while building towards the future, well, that's exactly what we want. That would be true, real progress. But to try and accomplish that by bringing in MORE veterans, no, that isn't only a bad idea its sabotage.

 

[apocalypse]

Any chance Durzi supplants Roy as the 2nd pairing PMD? I've kind of been thinking that Durzi could probably do it and do it well. Is that something the org should be considering?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Lots of star players have left their franchises within an offseason or two after winning Cups either via trade or free agency. Off the top of my head, Gretzky, Messier, Niedermayer, Fedorov, if it was good enough for those better players...

Modano left Dallas, Keith left Chicago, all at stages of their careers not different to the ages of our core now. I am sure there are plenty of others if I cared to google it. Point is that sentimentality isn't necessarily a strength, and mass sentimentality has proven to be a liability here.

No, you said that it happens often, that teams who win cups, trade their stars afterwards....and then you come up with nonsense

Gretzky was traded - financial reasons
Messier was traded - He held out, esssentially asked for a trade
Neidermayer signed as a UFA - after difficult negotations where the Devils didn't want him back 2 years after they won,
Federov - signed in ANA - after long and difficult negotations

Keith was traded what, a DECADE after they won
Modano left a DECARDE, after they won, at 40 years old.

Point is...NO TEAM trades their superstar a year removed from winning the championship....UNLESS like I previously said....there are other reasons ( financial reasons, (Gretzky, Neidermayer, Federov) or they request a trade (Messier etc)

You are so far off base on that....it's an amazingly bad take on pro sports.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

God damn those half Japanese girls… do it to me every time.

did not expect a Weezer reference, pleasantly surprised

Any chance Durzi supplants Roy as the 2nd pairing PMD? I've kind of been thinking that Durzi could probably do it and do it well. Is that something the org should be considering?

It's do able if his growth continues, he does seem to thrive with more minutes, but it's a long season.

 

[kingsfan28]

Has it been forgotten that Lombardi built his team by moving on from his team's two "best" players in Demitra and Visnovsky? Gretzky, Dionne, Nichols, Blake, Robitaille all moved on at some point.

This organization is not par for the course, it is actually the extreme example of retirement contracts gone awry. Folks keep saying it wasn't realistic, but that is a biased opinion that can be disproven.

Pretty sure what I understood back when DL first took over was he found out there was a serious divide in the room, a small group were just poison in the room and the captain lost the room entirely. Nobody would listen Matty and many just quit during the 10 game losing streak to end the year . I don't mean to speak ill of him , but Demitra was one of them along with JR and Conroy and a few others . That's the reason he was traded. JR was probably the worst of the group. Lubo was moved because he had value [ and the contract hadn't kicked in] and DL saw a need he could fill with the two players in return. Greene and Stoll brought instant leadership and accountability to the room.

 

[kingsfan28]

Lots of star players have left their franchises within an offseason or two after winning Cups either via trade or free agency. Off the top of my head, Gretzky, Messier, Niedermayer, Fedorov, if it was good enough for those better players...

Modano left Dallas, Keith left Chicago, all at stages of their careers not different to the ages of our core now. I am sure there are plenty of others if I cared to google it. Point is that sentimentality isn't necessarily a strength, and mass sentimentality has proven to be a liability here.

Madono didn't leave Dallas a few years after winning the cup, he left after nearly 10, when his contract ended. He retired a year later, age 40. Same with Keith , who is 38, except he was traded as part of a salary dump, cap space move and wanted to be closer to his young son.He asked for the trade. Putting Kopitar in that group is just crazy. He's only 34, and still one of the best two way centers in the league, even tough he's aging.