Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[Raccoon Jesus]

Lizotte is 24 f***ing years old.....JAD is 22 years old......are you serious? Like for real, are you seriously bitching we are playing a 24 year old over a 22 year old?

Clague, holy shit, you're right, next Bobby f***ing Orr there, Clague is so goddamn special, hes playing 3rd pairing D on a Canadian team that is HURTING for D.....think about that.

I'm bitching about the sheer volume of examples, not each one in a vacuum. You can't see the forest for the trees.

You asked for examples of the vet over youth decision process. I could give you myriad examples but you can easily look up the transactions yourself or any of my posts from the last several months.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Moore was 2C last game. Try to keep up.

Brown was playing like utter dog shit and TM allowed him to play through it--a leash not afforded to youth.

Oh wait shit....we are going game to game....is that it now? Measuring players worth via game to game?

You don't think Brown has earned the right to play through it? Tell me, Kupari and Kaliyev, are they not being afforded the ability to play through it? Or do you think they have been perfect all season long?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I'm bitching about the sheer volume of examples, not each one in a vacuum. You can't see the forest for the trees.

The point is there IS NO SHEER VOLUME OF EXAMPLES IN THE REAL WORLD.

Tell me how many AHL callups have they had that weren't young, all season, cmon...go.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Oh wait shit....we are going game to game....is that it now? Measuring players worth via game to game?

You don't think Brown has earned the right to play through it? Tell me, Kupari and Kaliyev, are they not being afforded the ability to play through it? Or do you think they have been perfect all season long?

When we are talking about calling a guy up to give him a game for being a good soldier, yeah, we're talking about small samples.

I've defended Brown for years, his play for the first third of the season was indefensible. Meanwhile, a couple of younger players made mistakes and we haven't seen them in the NHL since. Kupari, Kaliyev have both been benched for 2/3 a game for their mistakes. Yeah, part of that is seniority vs. youth learning--but again, couple that with everything and it's more than a little annoying.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The point is there IS NO SHEER VOLUME OF EXAMPLES IN THE REAL WORLD.

Tell me how many AHL callups have they had that weren't young, all season, cmon...go.

Now you're just being deliberately ignorant. Have fun yelling into that mirror.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Now you're just being deliberately ignorant. Have fun yelling into that mirror.

Tynan is not SHEER VOLUME,

Playing Lizotte at 24 years old vs JAD at 22 year old is not SHEER volume,

YOU said Sheer volume,

2021-22 Los Angeles Kings Transactions - NHL

There ya go, point them out.

 

[RaymondReddington]

Brown has had horrible stats on PP, but gets regular minutes...I don't have time or patience to look but I have to think there is no top 15 team that would keep a player that statistically inept on any PP unit.
I thought pro sports is about winning and not worrying if some vet's feelings get hurt.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Tynan is not SHEER VOLUME,

Playing Lizotte at 24 years old vs JAD at 22 year old is not SHEER volume,

YOU said Sheer volume,

2021-22 Los Angeles Kings Transactions - NHL

There ya go, point them out.

You're not this stupid. Are you?

It's not just about the AHL transactions! I've outlined that above, and across this forum many times. You're either being deliberately obtuse to try to microfocus on the wrong thing and try to make the whole point solely about callups, or you're just a complete idiot. I THINK it's the first, but with the angry fervor you're posting with, leaning towards the second.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You're not this stupid. Are you?

It's not just about the AHL transactions! I've outlined that above, and across this forum many times. You're either being deliberately obtuse to try to microfocus on the wrong thing and try to make the whole point solely about callups, or you're just a complete idiot. I THINK it's the first, but with the fervor you're posting with, leaning towards the second.

Yes sorry, its playing Lizotte over JAD, its playing Brown over Kaliyev....on the 1st line,

You think it's a SHEER VOLUME, but when asked, the only thing you are coming up with is, see what I've posted before.....and it's the SAME TIRING argument, so unless you were talking about your POSTS as the sheer volume, it's just not there.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yes sorry, its playing Lizotte over JAD, its playing Brown over Kaliyev....on the 1st line,

You think it's a SHEER VOLUME, but when asked, the only thing you are coming up with is, see what I've posted before.....and it's the SAME TIRING argument, so unless you were talking about your POSTS as the sheer volume, it's just not there.

Okay, so it's the second one. Case closed.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Okay, so it's the second one. Case closed.

Gotta be the 2nd one, because heaven forbid someone call you out on your BS.....and shit hell froze over, someone asked you to back it up, without going through 13K of OMG KINGS CANT DO ANYTHING RIGHT POSTS.....

I'm more than willing to change my opinion, but I need more than a Tynan 10 day call up, and playing a 24 year old vs a 22 year old to do so, once you have that, let me know.

 

[Schmooley]

Like Moore and Brown couldn't get benched if they scored on Sparks, autographed the puck, and spit on it before throwing it directly at TM's head. And even if they did, they'd plug in a redundancy like AA or Tynan instead of giving Turcotte a game or three. That's the issue.

Brown and Moore should be watching from the pressbox and it shouldve happened a while ago

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Gotta be the 2nd one, because heaven forbid someone call you out on your BS.....and shit hell froze over, someone asked you to back it up, without going through 13K of OMG KINGS CANT DO ANYTHING RIGHT POSTS.....

I'm more than willing to change my opinion, but I need more than a Tynan 10 day call up, and playing a 24 year old vs a 22 year old to do so, once you have that, let me know.

People have been able to call me out and discuss my BS all year because they at least acknowledge what I've been saying without pulling one item out and pretending that's the whole issue. You're the only one that seems to be struggling with the general concept that there are multiple layers to my concerns.

But sure, I'll give you a cliffnotes summary off the top of my head in a minute.

 

[YP44]

Enjoying this back and fourth.
The big issue to me is the number of NHL bottom 6 bodies LA has clung onto, as that is what is blocking guys from coming up. Why deal for Lias Andersson? I get the value was good for a former first round pick, but the need was not there. I thought the same about Lemieux, but a lot like that he bring grit that was missing. I didn't understand signing Tkachev as i thought he was going to block out someone I would rather see. Just a few examples, I would defeinately be pro dealing AA, Grundstrom and Moore to get rid of this log jam.

As for Clague, true he is only a 3rd line guy on Montreal, but I think he has more of a future than Maatta. And that is what should have mattered. Was a dumb loss of someone who could still pan out, long shot sure, but there is at least some hope there.

 

[FSL KINGS]

This season is a trainwreck. Kings are hanging around in the hunt. We all want to see Turcotte, Vilardi, Byfield play. It's frustrating.

Even if the youth is recalled right now, they're running an AHL defense & a random backup goalie. Just have to grind out some ugly wins & not stress out too much. Got to have faith that things will get better.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Brown and Moore should be watching from the pressbox and it shouldve happened a while ago

For what reason? Moore has been one of the more energetic Kings out there, what do you tell the rest of the team if you bench a player who gives it his all, every shift? Sorry, don't bother giving a shit, it doesn't matter?

Again, messages matter.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

--the aforementioned playing time issues--top six bottom six vet/youth and minutes/opportunity imbalance;
--the aforementioned callup concerns;
--The over-signing of veteran forwards, too many redundancies blocking youth; i.e. what does a guy like AA accomplish on this roster? Why did we need Tynan AND Burke when we knew we'd have to send down even more bodies in Frk, etc.? What are we trying to do with Lias Andersson? And so on.
--In contrast, the under-signing of dmen, such that Ontario is shorthanded by 3 bodies and needs to search for PTOs;
--dissonance between vision and signings; i.e. signing Tkachev and then acting surprised pikachu when he's not a grinder, burying him on the 4th line and no PP time, turning into self fulfilling prophecy; THEN sending him down to take PP time away from Madden/Turcotte/etc.
--The general asset management that said Maatta>Wolanin>Clague; then losing the latter two...for a loooong time Maatta was on for 1-2 ES goals for and double digit goals against, he finally corrected it to about 33% GF%, but last I checked, every regular roster defenseman was 20% better without Maatta, yet he was still playing over Wolanin, Clague, Strand, etc.
--Completely disparate accountability between vets and youth.

There's more, but I'm working, I'm sure others will be able to remind you as I've been bugging everyone else with it all year, lol

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Brown has had horrible stats on PP, but gets regular minutes...I don't have time or patience to look but I have to think there is no top 15 team that would keep a player that statistically inept on any PP unit.
I thought pro sports is about winning and not worrying if some vet's feelings get hurt.

Who would you put in his place, that takes the punishment in front of the net etc?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

For what reason? Moore has been one of the more energetic Kings out there, what do you tell the rest of the team if you bench a player who gives it his all, every shift? Sorry, don't bother giving a shit, it doesn't matter?

Again, messages matter.

That we aren't short on energy players and results matter.

Moore is going to be 27, he's not a kid making mistakes. If hes' playing like shit, he deserves to be accountable--maybe even more so--than a comparable kid.

 

[cyclones22]

I never thought the day would come where Raccoon Jesus and even myself would be considered haters instead of apologists, but it's a brand new world. I've been patient with this leadership and given them the benefit of the doubt but what I'm seeing now is alarming. This front office is operating like they're smarter than most other organizations who are more successful than they have been recently.

Frankly, Luc and Blake haven't earned the benefit of the doubt to not question what they're doing now. A couple of years ago I was sipping the Kool Aid at a season ticket holder event they were speaking at. I was buying what they were selling. But they've come back with half-measures on what they were selling. I was there when they said we have veterans blocking youth that we need to clear the runway for. The youth and increasing skill level is the future of this team and of the league in general. If we trade, we're going for 25 year old and younger impact players to fit with our vision. They showed a video of types of skill sets the Kings were missing.

I'm not going to laundry list what they've actually done. You all know what they have done and what the current situation is both in Los Angeles and Ontario. You have eyes. If you're cool with it, good for you. I'm not. Half-measures are what I see because what I mentioned above is exactly what came out of Luc's and Blake's mouths that afternoon. If ownership is forcing their hands, then know that what they're doing now is to save their jobs above all else, not make sure the Kings are better for the long run.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Who would you put in his place, that takes the punishment in front of the net etc?

We are absolutely short on Brown types, no doubt about it.

Andersson. Lemieux. Arvidsson. You can't 'replace' Brown, but even Brown isn't Brown these days/anymore. But give him some rest at least. I'm not one of the folks saying waive him/fire him into the ocean but it's clear he's on his last legs and shouldn't be playing 18 minutes every night.

 

[The Lukeman]

That we aren't short on energy players and results matter.

Moore is going to be 27, he's not a kid making mistakes. If hes' playing like shit, he deserves to be accountable--maybe even more so--than a comparable kid.

Absolutely agree. However I don't think Moore has been playing bad. He has played a decent game most nights. He plays a solid game. That being said, his offense has dried up faster than Austin Wagner hitting the glass on a breakaway. We simply can't afford that in our lineup right now.

 

[Schmooley]

For what reason? Moore has been one of the more energetic Kings out there, what do you tell the rest of the team if you bench a player who gives it his all, every shift? Sorry, don't bother giving a shit, it doesn't matter?

Again, messages matter.

Gimme a break with the message stuff. They did it to Grundstrom who was playing well and a lot better than Moore at the time.
He really hasnt been that energy guy at all. Not even close. Maybe this last roadtrip he picked up the pace a little. He barely finishes checks, doesnt make plays, doesnt get pucks to the net or on net. Basically a winger version of Nick Shore. Stays in position and doesnt make glaring mistakes that end up in his own net.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

--the aforementioned playing time issues--top six bottom six vet/youth and minutes/opportunity imbalance;
--the aforementioned callup concerns;
--The over-signing of veteran forwards, too many redundancies blocking youth; i.e. what does a guy like AA accomplish on this roster? Why did we need Tynan AND Burke when we knew we'd have to send down even more bodies in Frk, etc.? What are we trying to do with Lias Andersson? And so on.
--In contrast, the under-signing of dmen, such that Ontario is shorthanded by 3 bodies and needs to search for PTOs;
--dissonance between vision and signings; i.e. signing Tkachev and then acting surprised pikachu when he's not a grinder, burying him on the 4th line and no PP time, turning into self fulfilling prophecy; THEN sending him down to take PP time away from Madden/Turcotte/etc.
--The general asset management that said Maatta>Wolanin>Clague; then losing the latter two...for a loooong time Maatta was on for 1-2 ES goals for and double digit goals against, he finally corrected it to about 33% GF%, but last I checked, every regular roster defenseman was 20% better without Maatta, yet he was still playing over Wolanin, Clague, Strand, etc.
--Completely disparate accountability between vets and youth.

There's more, but I'm working, I'm sure others will be able to remind you as I've been bugging everyone else with it all year, lol

Tkacheck, no PP time, 4 games played, averaged 2:33 minutes of PP Time.......at least have your facts somewhat meet your feelings?

The undersigning of dmen? Really? 15 signed vs, COL 15 signed vs TB 15 signed vs WPG 15 signed, again, facts don't meet your feelings.

Not understanding the Maata hate around here, he's been fine since he got here, he's a 3rd pairing D, who eats up minutes, definitely play him over Clague and Strand.....

I will continue later on

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Gimme a break with the message stuff. They did it to Grundstrom who was playing well and a lot better than Moore at the time.
He really hasnt been that energy guy at all. Not even close. Maybe this last roadtrip he picked up the pace a little. He barely finishes checks, doesnt make plays, doesnt get pucks to the net or on net. Basically a winger version of Nick Shore. Stays in position and doesnt make glaring mistakes that end up in his own net.

Oh god, nearly forgot the Grundstrom thing lol. That bothered me to a great degree.

literally was told "it's not your fault, we're benching you."