Salary Cap: 2020-21 Lightning Roster Discussion | Part 2

[DaBolts]

I think Stammer stays unless we get a monster offer. Same for Gourde. Cirelli, Killer, TJ and a few others are fair game though.

 

[JTBF81]

might be our best option trade killorn for a 3rd rounder and trade cirell for a 1st and a 3rd and go in a semi rebuild mode kind of reload our prospects.

Terrible, the Lightning aren't going into any kind or rebuild mode. Look, Stamkos is a great player and Captain, but if there's a great trade option out there and he's willing to go, not even Stamkos is above the team. Now I don't see that happening of course, but in also highly doubt Stamkos is close to ready by Jan. 1, if that is the planned start of the season.

Brisebois is very committed to the 3 main rfas, so in th he end I believe he will pay the price to move Johnson and/or move Killorn for a less than great return. If Paquette and maybe Coburn get moved, and JBB is able to convince the rfas to take a little less than they were even going to before, Tampa could make it work just moving one of Johnson/Killorn. Moving both likely gets it done and then just have to see about fitting in Rutta. May still have to move Paquette but maybe not.

Losing Cirelli is terrible, as unless a team is giving us a can't miss elc C prospect in the deal(not happening), a couple scratch offs are worthless for Tampa right now. Stamkos is much better on the wing now, and does anyone really believe that even if he gets moved to 2C, he'll be able to play a full season/playoffs without some new prolonged time missed injury. And then in that case, Tampa would have no Cirelli and the corpse of Tyler Johnson having to center the 2nd line which bodes very poorly.

 

[BoltSTH]

A look at JBB in his office:

 

[The Gongshow]

might be our best option trade killorn for a 3rd rounder and trade cirell for a 1st and a 3rd and go in a semi rebuild mode kind of reload our prospects.

Anything less than a 1st for Cirelli I'd hang up the phone

 

[Fabiobest]

might be our best option trade killorn for a 3rd rounder and trade cirell for a 1st and a 3rd and go in a semi rebuild mode kind of reload our prospects.

Considering we have Murray and a great organization,that 1st rounder can mean a good player...
So, if we won't trade both TJ and Killorn...your idea could be really the one (in particular if our RFAs want a big contract).
Do I want to lose Cirelli? Hell no, of course I dont want to trade Tony.
But I'd rather trade him than doing bad things with our Captain or with someone else.

 

[Hinterland]

Considering we have Murray and a great organization,that 1st rounder can mean a good player...
So, if we won't trade both TJ and Killorn...your idea could be really the one (in particular if our RFAs want a big contract).
Do I want to lose Cirelli? Hell no, of course I dont want to trade Tony.
But I'd rather trade him than doing bad things with our Captain or with someone else.

Cirelli allows Cooper to shelter the Point line or at least to give them easier matchups and more offensive zone starts. Point was killing penalties before Cirelli emerged, too. I don't want to take anything away from Point but Cirelli made Point's hockey life a lot easier, allowed him to create more offense. If you trade Cirelli, that's a major setback for the team. That's not gonna happen. I could see them trade Sergachev just because the team has two very good LD's already but I don't think that's the preferred option. They'll try everything to ship out Johnson and maybe even Killorn.

 

[Fabiobest]

Cirelli allows Cooper to shelter the Point line or at least to give them easier matchups and more offensive zone starts. Point was killing penalties before Cirelli emerged, too. I don't want to take anything away from Point but Cirelli made Point's hockey life a lot easier, allowed him to create more offense. If you trade Cirelli, that's a major setback for the team. That's not gonna happen. I could see them trade Sergachev just because the team has two very good LD's already but I don't think that's the preferred option. They'll try everything to ship out Johnson and maybe even Killorn.

That'd be the best solution for us. If we trade TJ, Killer and maybe also either Paquette or Coburn, probably we will resign all our RFAs.
You're perfectly right about Cirelli and Point. But, in case we won't complete the best scenario, we will have to take a decision. In case I hope JFBB will find out someone similar to Cirelli on the market, maybe a prospect, I don't know.
But never I'd rather trade Stammer over Cirelli.

 

[Hinterland]

That'd be the best solution for us. If we trade TJ, Killer and maybe also either Paquette or Coburn, probably we will resign all our RFAs.
You're perfectly right about Cirelli and Point. But, in case we won't complete the best scenario, we will have to take a decision. In case I hope JFBB will find out someone similar to Cirelli on the market, maybe a prospect, I don't know.
But never I'd rather trade Stammer over Cirelli.

Did any of those guys waive their clauses? Because from Coburns 1,7 upwards, the only guys you can trade are Point, Killorn, Coleman and Johnson (if it's true that he'd waive his NTC for certain teams)

 

[HoseEmDown]

Why are we trading Killorn instead of Stamkos and why should Stamkos get to finish his career here instead of Killorn? Can you guess who's the longest serving member of the organization? I'll give you a hint it's not Stamkos.

 

[Todd1a]

Why are we trading Killorn instead of Stamkos and why should Stamkos get to finish his career here instead of Killorn? Can you guess who's the longest serving member of the organization? I'll give you a hint it's not Stamkos.

because stamkos is a better player then killorn

 

[Fabiobest]

Did any of those guys waive their clauses? Because from Coburns 1,7 upwards, the only guys you can trade are Point, Killorn, Coleman and Johnson (if it's true that he'd waive his NTC for certain teams)

If it's true that Johnson waived his clause we can trade both him and Killorn that has a modified clause.
To be honest, I don't know if Coburn decided to waive his clause or not...

 

[BoltzManConstant]

Just my two cents:

I think JBB does not have to clout SY did, but ultimately it wont matter. When you hear statements like the "league wont help" I think thats other GM's simply waiting to see if JBB does something rook"ish" or erratic. As much as I want this fixed asap, I think this is simply going to take a longgggg time. At the end of the day the lightning still have the upper hand with the RFA's - if salary is a concern overall then it is a concern for these RFA's (which I think may lead to some very very short bridge deals 1-2 yrs) and also Johnson still is a 40-50 point center playing less minutes then he would else where with a real salary lower then his cap hit. As the FA market thins gms on teams that need cap dollars will come running.

I really would like to see JBB clean "salary" house and no NOT STAMMER. These team has had talent out the a-- for years and didnt win the cup - I genuinely know that Stammer and his presence and his bond with Tampa Bay cannot be replaced and will make this team have "heartless" talent. Its like the core of the Yankees in the past. I think - yes i know I will get ripped - they can lose Kucherov and have less of an effect on the win/loss record then Stammer. I love Kuch - I have his jersey and I know he is more talented - my argument is about the intangibles.

I would like to see the following go in a "Salary" rebuild even for limited return in order of priority to move on from:

Johnson
Gourde
Palat (sell high on a playoff run)
Killorn (may have moved from 1 - 4 based on his bond with the locals after the cup)

I think Paquette and Coburn are on the fringe - but who cares - move the big salaries and keep these role players around - they dont cost much and they know the system. Vasy will be the highest paid goalie int he league soon (as other salaries fall off for other goalies) and it is hard to win the salary cap battle when your goaltenders will be paid 12 million total. There is one way to do it....

This team will ONLY succeed in multiple years if they reduce salary and have 3-4 new rookies (ala TJ, Kuch, Palat) step up and be low cost producers for 3-4 years.

Keep the team young, even if you have to sacrifice those four veterans, Stammer and Kuch as Forward Vets, Hedman and Mcd as D Vets.

The league and the GM's want to see JBB panic. What is panicking in my eyes? Selling Stammer and Mcd. I hate Mcd contract but you move him in a few years not yet. With the right core and youth this team can win more cups.

There's really no reason to prioritize retaining Stamkos. I love the guy, but it's clear he wasn't necessary to win the cup.

If you get a good deal (sufficient return value) and he'll waive, then you get his contract off the books and have the cash to sign our critical RFA's (probably). Then if you can move Johnson and/or Killorn, more's the better -- there's a lot of cheap talent out there right now in terms of complementary D and size, and you can even hold on to a few million which at the trade deadline will be multiplied into enough room to acquire superstar for a playoff one-and-done.

It's not critical. We can be great and set for the future just by unloading Killer and Johnson. But if the Stamkos opportunity presents itself, the $8.5m would be huge.

All this really means is that we're seeing Vinik still be all about winning. Willing to eat the $8.5m in bonus we've already paid Stammer and then still pay the full salary of replacements. This last part could be our ace in the hole -- with a bunch of teams having internal caps due to the collapse in league revenues, there could be someone who'd love us to front $7.5m of their cash costs against the cap this year and another $5m over the life of the contract. But at the same time, I doubt that any team looking for that kind of cash relief is one that Stammer would waive to play for.

 

[Point21]

Lightning Round: Is Nikita Nesterov coming back to Tampa?

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Lightning Round: Is Nikita Nesterov coming back to Tampa?

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I can't imagine he's good enough for the NHL anymore? Also he's a LD, so purely a depth move.

 

[Todd1a]

Lightning Round: Is Nikita Nesterov coming back to Tampa?

Makes sense if we trade coburn for depth and cheaper then what coburn would cost

 

[Flat Ronnie]

There's really no reason to prioritize retaining Stamkos. I love the guy, but it's clear he wasn't necessary to win the cup.

If you get a good deal (sufficient return value) and he'll waive, then you get his contract off the books and have the cash to sign our critical RFA's (probably). Then if you can move Johnson and/or Killorn, more's the better -- there's a lot of cheap talent out there right now in terms of complementary D and size, and you can even hold on to a few million which at the trade deadline will be multiplied into enough room to acquire superstar for a playoff one-and-done.

It's not critical. We can be great and set for the future just by unloading Killer and Johnson. But if the Stamkos opportunity presents itself, the $8.5m would be huge.

All this really means is that we're seeing Vinik still be all about winning. Willing to eat the $8.5m in bonus we've already paid Stammer and then still pay the full salary of replacements. This last part could be our ace in the hole -- with a bunch of teams having internal caps due to the collapse in league revenues, there could be someone who'd love us to front $7.5m of their cash costs against the cap this year and another $5m over the life of the contract. But at the same time, I doubt that any team looking for that kind of cash relief is one that Stammer would waive to play for.

This would have been a completely different story if we didn't get lucky with the matchups and had to play teams like Wash, Philly, Vegas or Colorado. Teams with high powered offenses.

2nd line was ass.
Faceoffs were ass.
PP got hot at the right time but for the most part was ass.

 

[Todd1a]

This would have been a completely different story if we didn't get lucky with the matchups and had to play teams like Wash, Philly, Vegas or Colorado. Teams with high powered offenses.

2nd line was ass.
Faceoffs were ass.
PP got hot at the right time but for the most part was ass.

for sure our 1st and 3rd line carried us the 2nd line was a disappointment for sure.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

I just think this is bad business. If an opposing GM genuinely believes one of our players can help them, but are unwilling to make the move for no other reason than they don't want to help us, that's quite petty IMO.

And very dumb of them. It'd be one thing if we were looking to move a piece like Callahan for cap relief, but Killorn and Johnson are solid NHL players. I find it hard to believe a GM would think that way because essentially all trades involve giving up something of value to get something else that can improve your team.

 

[Todd1a]

And very dumb of them. It'd be one thing if we were looking to move a piece like Callahan for cap relief, but Killorn and Johnson are solid NHL players. I find it hard to believe a GM would think that way because essentially all trades involve giving up something of value to get something else that can improve your team.

yep absolutely shocked killorn can help a ton of teams in this league and so can johnson

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I can't imagine he's good enough for the NHL anymore? Also he's a LD, so purely a depth move.

I think he's good enough for the NHL, but like you said purely a depth move. But we've lost Bogo and Shattenkirk and need cheap replacements, so depending on how all the other dominoes fall, he could be a good one to circle back to.

There's obviously a lot of familiarity with this player, between JBB, Coop, and a number of the players. An interesting thing about Nesterov is he played on a pairing with Sergachev for Russia last year in the 2019 iihf wold championships in the Quarter & Semifinal games. They had Nesterov play left side and Serge play right.


Both games are here

 

[HoseEmDown]

This would have been a completely different story if we didn't get lucky with the matchups and had to play teams like Wash, Philly, Vegas or Colorado. Teams with high powered offenses.

2nd line was ass.
Faceoffs were ass.
PP got hot at the right time but for the most part was ass.

How did we get lucky with the matchups? In a normal playoffs we play Toronto first round instead of Columbus but Columbus beat Toronto so clearly they were the better team. I don't think Toronto is that special offensively either. Boston would have been our 2nd round opponent in either format and the Islanders took care of Washington and Philly. On the other side Dallas knocked off both Colorado and Vegas. So not sure how we got lucky?

 

[These Are The Days]

Wouldn't be unhappy to see Nesterov come back. The guy is good at one thing and it's getting the puck through traffic on shots. I'll gladly take that

 

[Flat Ronnie]

How did we get lucky with the matchups? In a normal playoffs we play Toronto first round instead of Columbus but Columbus beat Toronto so clearly they were the better team. I don't think Toronto is that special offensively either. Boston would have been our 2nd round opponent in either format and the Islanders took care of Washington and Philly. On the other side Dallas knocked off both Colorado and Vegas. So not sure how we got lucky?

Let me try to elaborate so that what I said isn't taken out of context.

In no way am I suggesting we got lucky winning the cup or we weren't the best team. I dont think that at all.

All I was suggesting was based on the way our team was playing and the lack of PP and secondary scoring through stretches I think we were fortunate to get a lot of defensive minded matchups. Esspecially since our 2nd line was non existent. If we would have dried up 5x5 or gone 1-16 on the PP against a high powered team like Colorado we might have been done for. Thats all. It wasn't a knock on the team or our accomplishments.

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

because stamkos is a better player then killorn

Understatement of the year

 

[JoVel]

This would have been a completely different story if we didn't get lucky with the matchups and had to play teams like Wash, Philly, Vegas or Colorado. Teams with high powered offenses.

2nd line was ass.
Faceoffs were ass.
PP got hot at the right time but for the most part was ass.

Yeah even though we won it all it's not like we didn't have holes on our team that would've been solved with a healthy Stamkos.