Salary Cap: 2020-21 Lightning Roster Discussion | Part 2

[HoseEmDown]

Let me try to elaborate so that what I said isn't taken out of context.

In no way am I suggesting we got lucky winning the cup or we weren't the best team. I dont think that at all.

All I was suggesting was based on the way our team was playing and the lack of PP and secondary scoring through stretches I think we were fortunate to get a lot of defensive minded matchups. Esspecially since our 2nd line was non existent. If we would have dried up 5x5 or gone 1-16 on the PP against a high powered team like Colorado we might have been done for. Thats all. It wasn't a knock on the team or our accomplishments.

Here's the thing though do you think we go 1-16 or get no secondary scoring against teams that aren't as good defensively? I think it's harder to win against defense first teams especially in the playoffs. So our offensive issues were compounded by our opponents, if we played a more open team I think we score more goals and don't have the struggles like we did. I think our defense was good enough to shut down a high scoring team and we would still win the Cup regardless.

 

[DFC]

We were the only team that could both score and defend. We shut everyone down and scored goals when we needed them.

 

[DFC]

This would have been a completely different story if we didn't get lucky with the matchups and had to play teams like Wash, Philly, Vegas or Colorado. Teams with high powered offenses.

2nd line was ass.
Faceoffs were ass.
PP got hot at the right time but for the most part was ass.

All those teams got beat. Some of them pretty easily.

Boston is a high powered offense and they were our easiest opponent.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

This would have been a completely different story if we didn't get lucky with the matchups and had to play teams like Wash, Philly, Vegas or Colorado. Teams with high powered offenses.

2nd line was ass.
Faceoffs were ass.
PP got hot at the right time but for the most part was ass.

This is crazy talk. We went 16-6 against an array of different playoff teams. We took the best from the regular season and beat them in a walk, 4-1.

Last year, with a fully healthy Stamkos, we went 0-4 in the playoffs.

I love the guy, and I'd rather keep him on the team. But the only thing making him untouchable is his NMC. There are many better ways we can deploy $8.5m on this team.

TJ is, sadly, even a less good use of his salary. (And he's another guy I love -- his case for the historical contributions). But if it's gonna cost too much to move him, we need to keep all options on the table.

 

[JoVel]

Last year, with a fully healthy Stamkos, we went 0-4 in the playoffs.

This year we also didn't have Kucherov throwing a tantrum or Hedman playing with a f***ed up head. To say Stamkos was the difference seems pretty unfair to him.

It's easy to get blinded by the success but Stamkos is still a vital part of this team. The holes that Ronnie mentioned were clearly there and Stamkos would be a big help. Winning a Cup doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get better for the next season.

 

[Peacefool]

This is crazy talk. We went 16-6 against an array of different playoff teams. We took the best from the regular season and beat them in a walk, 4-1.

Last year, with a fully healthy Stamkos, we went 0-4 in the playoffs.

I love the guy, and I'd rather keep him on the team. But the only thing making him untouchable is his NMC. There are many better ways we can deploy $8.5m on this team.

TJ is, sadly, even a less good use of his salary. (And he's another guy I love -- his case for the historical contributions). But if it's gonna cost too much to move him, we need to keep all options on the table.

really dude,Stammer wasnt reason we lost last year 0-4 it was whole Lightning game structure,but not that guy. If I follow that logic..looke here...STammer played only 3 minutes this play offs scored one goal.so it was enough for us to hae him only for 3 minutes to win the cup,thats why he is awesome player
no offense)

 

[BoltzManConstant]

This year we also didn't have Kucherov throwing a tantrum or Hedman playing with a f***ed up head. To say Stamkos was the difference seems pretty unfair to him.

It's easy to get blinded by the success but Stamkos is still a vital part of this team. The holes that Ronnie mentioned were clearly there and Stamkos would be a big help. Winning a Cup doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get better for the next season.

Of course you try to be better. When your greatest constraint is cap spcae, you have to decide how to spend it to best effect. $5m for TJ is our most inefficient allocation. $8.5m to Stammer is probably our 2nd.

"Vital part of this team" is objectively not an accurate characterization of Stamkos.

 

[Crunchrulz]

As we all know and realize, a couple of the moves that are going to have to be made to keep the 3 RFAs we want to keep are going to unpopular with some, if not many. It may well cost us Stammer,McD, or both. We need to look at the long term gain vice the short term pain. That being typed, of the three, Serge is the one we need the most as defensemen who do what he does are not exactly falling off the trees in bunches.

 

[DFC]

As we all know and realize, a couple of the moves that are going to have to be made to keep the 3 RFAs we want to keep are going to unpopular with some, if not many. It may well cost us Stammer,McD, or both. We need to look at the long term gain vice the short term pain. That being typed, of the three, Serge is the one we need the most as defensemen who do what he does are not exactly falling off the trees in bunches.

We also need to try to win another cup. You don't do that by moving better players. This is our window. We can't sacrifice it for some window in the future that may never open.

 

[DFC]

Of course you try to be better. When your greatest constraint is cap spcae, you have to decide how to spend it to best effect. $5m for TJ is our most inefficient allocation. $8.5m to Stammer is probably our 2nd.

"Vital part of this team" is objectively not an accurate characterization of Stamkos.

I think Stamkos is worth his contract, pretty easily. But you're right that he's not a vital part of the team's success.

 

[PJ817]

I think Stamkos is worth his contract, pretty easily. But you're right that he's not a vital part of the team's success.

Considering Pajama Boy & Mustachio & Marner all make $10M+ (I know, ya'll scream "TAXES" ... go read how that works for NHL)

Seguin & Benn make $9M+ (you know, those guys that we just beat; no taxes there)

Stone $9M+ (you know, the misfit-to-be on VGK; no taxes there)

Ovi (holy crap, he's UFA next year) + Backstrom are over $9M+ per year (DCraps)

Stammer's worth his $8M+ ... I'm sure there's others making more than Stammer (some to pay for the tax difference BUT go look at how that works)... Stammer is the heart of the team, I'd put Heddy right up there too now and DrunkKuch (who knew, seriously, WHOfKnew?!), and Pointer

 

[Fabiobest]

Considering Pajama Boy & Mustachio & Marner all make $10M+ (I know, ya'll scream "TAXES" ... go read how that works for NHL)

Seguin & Benn make $9M+ (you know, those guys that we just beat; no taxes there)

Stone $9M+ (you know, the misfit-to-be on VGK; no taxes there)

Ovi (holy crap, he's UFA next year) + Backstrom are over $9M+ per year (DCraps)

Stammer's worth his $8M+ ... I'm sure there's others making more than Stammer (some to pay for the tax difference BUT go look at how that works)... Stammer is the heart of the team, I'd put Heddy right up there too now and DrunkKuch (who knew, seriously, WHOfKnew?!), and Pointer

Do you want to know the strangest thing?
We're writing many many posts about the fact that the team may be better without Stamkos.
I mean...we may be better without a 800 points man.
A total paradox.
Make no sense to me.
Cirelli is good, our RFAs are very important for sure, but come on... xD xD xD

 

[Crunchrulz]

We also need to try to win another cup. You don't do that by moving better players. This is our window. We can't sacrifice it for some window in the future that may never open.

So we sacrifice the future for the present? Haven't we done enough of that already? Our system has gone from the envy of EVERY other organization to one that is not mentioned as a top 5 by a majority of those who supposedly know what they are typing. There is not a lot of help here in Syracuse and not a lot of cap space to rent help either. But hey, if the highly knowledgeable folks want to go all in now, so be it. Just remember, when you are at the top, there is only one direction you can go. The only question is, how fast do you get there.

 

[PJ817]

So we sacrifice the future for the present?.

the present is what puts people in the seats, what helps Vinik offset his costs

look at the Cats down south - good players, team is always lurking, ALWAYS lurking, but never a true contender. Look at their seats during non-COVID. Empty. Dead. Lifeless.

I'd prefer to continue building on the present to make sure our future isn't ^^ - teams like Isles/Rags/even Buffalaffo seats more people than Cats and it's not due to better teams; it's due to people buying in when things were great and continuing to buy in when things are not so

 

[Byrddog]

Here's the thing though do you think we go 1-16 or get no secondary scoring against teams that aren't as good defensively? I think it's harder to win against defense first teams especially in the playoffs. So our offensive issues were compounded by our opponents, if we played a more open team I think we score more goals and don't have the struggles like we did. I think our defense was good enough to shut down a high scoring team and we would still win the Cup regardless.

I sure hope you mean we are ok defensively if we sign Sergi and Cernak because without them we do not compete with defense first teams. Take the Islanders for example if our D had not done such a good job on that Barzal line we would not have made it out of that series. How about the Jackets without the D and the addition of Coleman and Goodrow we could have been removed in the 1st round again. The OT game broke the Jackets back. If teams with high flying offense and Mehhhhhh defense won the Cup the Bolts and Oilers would win every year. You have to have the whole package we had it last year but right now it is a struggle of opinion on what to do. I assure you of this weakening the D will not repeat.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Expose McDonagh to selection by Seattle. Give Seattle TJ for a 7th. That's 11.75M right there. If you really want to load up your RFAs, Palat can go to a team trying to stay on the bubble (could even retain some $ since it would only be for 1 year).

a 7th keep dreaming

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

How did we get lucky with the matchups? In a normal playoffs we play Toronto first round instead of Columbus but Columbus beat Toronto so clearly they were the better team. I don't think Toronto is that special offensively either. Boston would have been our 2nd round opponent in either format and the Islanders took care of Washington and Philly. On the other side Dallas knocked off both Colorado and Vegas. So not sure how we got lucky?

I agree with everything except for Dallas. They got lucky

 

[HoseEmDown]

I sure hope you mean we are ok defensively if we sign Sergi and Cernak because without them we do not compete with defense first teams. Take the Islanders for example if our D had not done such a good job on that Barzal line we would not have made it out of that series. How about the Jackets without the D and the addition of Coleman and Goodrow we could have been removed in the 1st round again. The OT game broke the Jackets back. If teams with high flying offense and Mehhhhhh defense won the Cup the Bolts and Oilers would win every year. You have to have the whole package we had it last year but right now it is a struggle of opinion on what to do. I assure you of this weakening the D will not repeat.

The Capitals and Penguins teams that won 3 of the 4 Cups prior to ours aren't known for their defense. Sure the Caps team was coached by Trotz but they were 16th in GA and 9th in goals for. If we have Hedman and McDonagh then we should be no worse than any of those Cup winning teams.

 

[DFC]

So we sacrifice the future for the present? Haven't we done enough of that already? Our system has gone from the envy of EVERY other organization to one that is not mentioned as a top 5 by a majority of those who supposedly know what they are typing. There is not a lot of help here in Syracuse and not a lot of cap space to rent help either. But hey, if the highly knowledgeable folks want to go all in now, so be it. Just remember, when you are at the top, there is only one direction you can go. The only question is, how fast do you get there.

Ummm what's the point of hockey if not to win a cup? Why focus on a future cup when we literally just won one. You dont sacrifice a legit shot at a cup for anything. You dont win a cup and then go directly into a rebuild because you don't want to lose a couple of guys who weren't even key players on the run.

 

[Fabiobest]

the present is what puts people in the seats, what helps Vinik offset his costs

look at the Cats down south - good players, team is always lurking, ALWAYS lurking, but never a true contender. Look at their seats during non-COVID. Empty. Dead. Lifeless.

I'd prefer to continue building on the present to make sure our future isn't ^^ - teams like Isles/Rags/even Buffalaffo seats more people than Cats and it's not due to better teams; it's due to people buying in when things were great and continuing to buy in when things are not so

True but let me say one thing...
what are we talking about?
Stamkos is 30 years old...Considering guys like Jumbo Joe or Jagr, in theory, Stammer can play (if he wants and if injuries won't be a huge problem anymore) for other 10 years.
So, we are not paying any kind of tribute, sacrificing the future.
Simply, we are choosing one of the best player in the world.

 

[PJ817]

True but let me say one thing...
what are we talking about?
Stamkos is 30 years old...Considering guys like Jumbo Joe or Jagr, in theory, Stammer can play (if he wants and if injuries won't be a huge problem anymore) for other 10 years.
So, we are not paying any kind of tribute, sacrificing the future.
Simply, we are choosing one of the best player in the world.

we agree - Stammer stays put, he's not an option for JBB or his ilk until Stammer says he's done, he stays in a Bolt sweater

any other discussion about him is silliness not seen since Roadrunner flattened Wylie

 

[Fabiobest]

we agree - Stammer stays put, he's not an option for JBB or his ilk until Stammer says he's done, he stays in a Bolt sweater

any other discussion about him is silliness not seen since Roadrunner flattened Wylie

Exactly, this one must be the rule to follow and respect.

 

[8999]

Stamkos is 30 years old...Considering guys like Jumbo Joe or Jagr, in theory, Stammer can play (if he wants and if injuries won't be a huge problem anymore) for other 10 years.

This is the $8.5m question. And it's not even about the money... it's about whether betting on Stamkos staying healthy is worth potentially losing Palat/Killorn or Cirelli/Cernak or the entire Gourde/Coleman/Goodrow line due to the salary cap.

 

[BoltSTH]

Summary so far as I see it:
Gone: Shattenkirk, Bogsain, Vehagene
Resigned: Shenn, Maroon
UFA unsigned: Rutta
Stamkos: Healthy for start of season. Rumors of him being traded (I give <5% chance).
Cap Space: $2.8m
Core: Kucherov, Point, Hedman, Sergachev, Vasy
On the Block:
Johnson. No one wants for free, teams with cap space shrinking every day, NTC. Buyout gives only $1m cap relief next year. Could cost a 1st to move
Killorn. 16 team NTC. No offers known. IMO Other GM just waiting for him to be waived, and can be be picked up for free. Buyout $1.4m, saving $3.2m cap

May have to go, but replacements needed so only $2m cap saved:
Paquette, Coburn

RFA. Big 3 qualified but no contracts yet. Cirelli may have to be traded for picks/prospects if we can't move Johnson and Killorn.

 

[Todd1a]

Throw in Cernak to get someone to take killorn wth ?

https://thehockeywriters.com/devils...8ftvDObDGK05rlAvm3fttFqDzc28V4G-Xgrdnn6yeAskM