Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part VI

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Short term pain for long term gain.

I think the AHL is the best option if you are greedy to make it into the NHL ASAP. It’s no place that you develop your game at. It’s a crash course in optimizing your game for the NHL. You ride the bus and learn to check and not take risks. No skill development etc

I often think kids that go to the AHL early is a sign of them having poor attitude and not being willing to work on their game. It’s usually players looking for short cuts. Sure it burn ELC years, but I think it hurt you more in the end.

Most successful Europeans decided to put in the hard work to develop their game before they went to NA and it paid off.

Like take a kid like Puljujärvi. He has developed horribly after three years in the AHL/NHL on a depth line. Now he has to go back to Europe instead.

JMHO.
 
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It's the ultras who are boycotting, not the common fan.

Regardless, being on a bad team is the best thing for Kravtsov. His stats will suffer, but he'll need to work harder for success. Opponents will keyed in on him.

I mean considering the crap he's taken from Ranger fans regarding his character, you'd think they'd approve of him being tested with a difficult situation in the KHL.
What I’ve been worried about from the time he decided to leave was him going back to a team that is going to lean on him so heavily for offense that he’s going to start cheating and cutting corners to get that offense for the team
 
I think the AHL is the best option if you are greedy to make it into the NHL ASAP. It’s no place that you develop your game at. It’s a crash course in optimizing your game for the NHL. You ride the bus and learn to check and not take risks. No skill development etc

I often think kids that go to the AHL early is a sign of them having poor attitude and not being willing to work on their game. It’s usually players looking for short cuts. Sure it burn ELC years, but I think it hurt you more in the end.

Most successful Europeans decided to put in the hard work to develop their game before they went to NA and it paid off.

Like take a kid like Puljujärvi. He has developed horribly after three years in the AHL/NHL on a depth line. Now he has to go back to Europe instead.

JMHO.
It’s more of a case by case kind of thing. You can say look at Puljujärvi and I can say look at Rantanen
 
I think the AHL is the best option if you are greedy to make it into the NHL ASAP. It’s no place that you develop your game at. It’s a crash course in optimizing your game for the NHL. You ride the bus and learn to check and not take risks. No skill development etc

I often think kids that go to the AHL early is a sign of them having poor attitude and not being willing to work on their game. It’s usually players looking for short cuts. Sure it burn ELC years, but I think it hurt you more in the end.

Most successful Europeans decided to put in the hard work to develop their game before they went to NA and it paid off.

Like take a kid like Puljujärvi. He has developed horribly after three years in the AHL/NHL on a depth line. Now he has to go back to Europe instead.

JMHO.
European players have the option of playing in their own professional, domestic leagues. North American kids go to college and turn pro, or play junior and turn pro. When they turn pro their options aren't really options--if you're good enough, you make the NHL, if not, you're in the AHL.

I don't know how you could honestly take the position that players don't develop their skills there, and that it's a "greedy" approach when most players would rather obviously be in the NHL and have no control over where they play.

I mean unless it's your position that kids come out college and out of juniors and their skill set is fully developed. Is that your position? Because if it's not then what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

I usually agree with you Ola but this post makes me think you're drunk or something. The AHL develops players in so many ways, and so many players will credit their time in the AHL for allowing them to develop into NHL players. Even coaches develop there, on their way to the NHL. I mean I honestly don't know what else to say about this.
 
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I think the AHL is the best option if you are greedy to make it into the NHL ASAP. It’s no place that you develop your game at. It’s a crash course in optimizing your game for the NHL. You ride the bus and learn to check and not take risks. No skill development etc

I often think kids that go to the AHL early is a sign of them having poor attitude and not being willing to work on their game. It’s usually players looking for short cuts. Sure it burn ELC years, but I think it hurt you more in the end.

Most successful Europeans decided to put in the hard work to develop their game before they went to NA and it paid off.

Like take a kid like Puljujärvi. He has developed horribly after three years in the AHL/NHL on a depth line. Now he has to go back to Europe instead.

JMHO.

Well, I guess Andersson et al are doomed then. But, then again, I really don't agree with your analysis so I'll continue to have hope.
 
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Well, I guess Andersson et al are doomed then. But, then again, I really don't agree with your analysis so I'll continue to have hope.
I mean even if you accepted the idea that it's better for European prospects to stay in their domestic leagues (which can be true, but definitely isn't always true), this concept of "the AHL doesn't teach creativity or skill" and in fact stifles it is just crazy.
 
Well, I guess Andersson et al are doomed then. But, then again, I really don't agree with your analysis so I'll continue to have hope.

I wouldn’t say doomed, but yeah, I think Andersson was rushed. First by HV71, and then it has just kept going. Since he was 16, Lias has played at a really high level in a bit smaller role.
 
I mean even if you accepted the idea that it's better for European prospects to stay in their domestic leagues (which can be true, but definitely isn't always true), this concept of "the AHL doesn't teach creativity or skill" and in fact stifles it is just crazy.

I don’t think it’s crazy at all, I think SHL teams practice 3x as much as an AHL team.

Wouldn’t expecting the opposite be crazy? There are no short-cuts — you need to practice to get better. As I understand it many AHL teams only get in 2-3 quality practices some weeks. And they aren’t even that long. Many games. Long bus rides. Many many days with just pre game skates or that are off or travel days. Short skates to shake the rust.

And I don’t think it’s as simple as Europeans should stay in Europe. I would be very careful to bet on that the SHL is better than the NCAA, unless you are a PMD. But the SHL can also be a bit stifling for forwards.

Just for the record — I also think it would have been awful if K’Andre Miller went to HFD. And I definitely don’t think it would have been best for Kravy either. Kravy wasn’t quite there yet. He needs a stronger foundation. And I don’t think the AHL is a place you build an foundation, and it don’t matter if you are KAndre Miller or Kravy.

The AHL is second to none though when it comes to a European that has a complete game but must understand what works and what won’t work in NA. Kravy could be there in 1-2 years. But he definitely wasn’t this October.
 
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I think the AHL is the best option if you are greedy to make it into the NHL ASAP. It’s no place that you develop your game at. It’s a crash course in optimizing your game for the NHL. You ride the bus and learn to check and not take risks. No skill development etc

I often think kids that go to the AHL early is a sign of them having poor attitude and not being willing to work on their game. It’s usually players looking for short cuts. Sure it burn ELC years, but I think it hurt you more in the end.

Most successful Europeans decided to put in the hard work to develop their game before they went to NA and it paid off.

Like take a kid like Puljujärvi. He has developed horribly after three years in the AHL/NHL on a depth line. Now he has to go back to Europe instead.

JMHO.

This post is bizarre and makes no sense.
 
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Many U20 players in Sweden trains over 20 hours per week. On the ice three times a day. Of that maybe 7.5-10 hours is pure skill development. In the AHL the same number is maybe 2 hours.

The NCAA kids surely practice many hours a week. I am not an expert on that, but I would imagine that they also have a good 5-10 hours that more or less is pure skill development. Two skates a day?
 
This post is bizarre and makes no sense.

Hm, why do you say that? Lol

I think I have pretty good insight into these things. I think there are many bizarre things written in this thread, by people who really have little clue what they are talking about, zero support by facts, and I am not the sender of those posts... ;)

I can guarantee you that if you poll 50 experts in Sweden that during their careers spent time in the AHL, you would have a hard time to find ONE who suggest to young player Swedish player that they should go early to the AHL to develop their raw skills, their game.
 
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The AHL is all of a sudden portrayed as a great development league you put in work in to get long term gain in your game. Lol, when did that happen? Seriously?

If you ask a SHL player how it was to play in the AHL, was it tough? Stuff like that. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard the same answers. No it’s not that tough really. As a hockey player you love to play games. In the AHL that is all you do. Some weeks we didn’t practice at all. Only games, games and more games. Some skates to get the legs going after traveling, then more games. Here in the SHL all we do is practice, practice and practice. In that way the AHL is fun league to play in. Stuff like that.
 
The AHL season is 22 games longer than the SHL season, in the same time, and the travel is MUCH worse. If you don’t think that significantly impacts the amount of time players can practice you are delusional.

You shouldn’t play 76 games plus pre season plus play-offs in a year that you are building up the fundamental aspects of your game like skating, stick handling and shooting etc. It is the right thing to do — for most — when you are 21-22 y/o maybe and need to prepare for a 82 game schedule of NHL hockey. Not for most 18-19 y/o.

Stating this is neither bizarre and no, I am not drunk. There are however certainly many things posted in this thread that just aren’t in touch with reality.
 
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The AHL season is 22 games longer than the SHL season, in the same time, and the travel is MUCH worse. If you don’t think that significantly impacts the amount of time players can practice you are delusional.

You shouldn’t play 76 games plus pre season plus play-offs in a year that you are building up the fundamental aspects of your game like skating, stick handling and shooting etc. It is the right thing to do — for most — when you are 21-22 y/o maybe and need to prepare for a 82 game schedule of NHL hockey. Not for most 18-19 y/o.

Stating this is neither bizarre and no, I am not drunk. There are however certainly many things posted in this thread that just aren’t in touch with reality.
I mean you're talking about season length like it's unusual. For North America, it's not. The teenagers in the CHL leagues manage to play 68-game seasons, with the better players also getting international or CHL-based tournaments, plus whatever they play in the playoffs. It's not much different than an NHL schedule, other than less games on weekdays. And this is the league (or set of leagues) that the vast majority of NHL players come from. Sooo, is the CHL doing it wrong? Does the USHL and Junior A do it wrong?

I understand your overall point about practice time vs just playing games. That's far from settled, however, as you seem to state that it is. You're basically saying that the entire model of youth hockey PLUS the AHL is based on faulty practices. I think that's crazy.

It's like you would expect to never find skilled players coming out of the CHL because they're on the bus and playing games all the time. And yet...

I also want to point out that when you're talking about 18/19-year-old players, that's largely inapplicable to the AHL. It's mostly European players who are in the league at that age, and as acknowledged, European teens have other alternatives. But talking about general player development for teenage players in the AHL doesn't really make sense, because almost none of the AHL players are that age.
 
The AHL season is 22 games longer than the SHL season, in the same time, and the travel is MUCH worse. If you don’t think that significantly impacts the amount of time players can practice you are delusional.

You shouldn’t play 76 games plus pre season plus play-offs in a year that you are building up the fundamental aspects of your game like skating, stick handling and shooting etc. It is the right thing to do — for most — when you are 21-22 y/o maybe and need to prepare for a 82 game schedule of NHL hockey. Not for most 18-19 y/o.

Stating this is neither bizarre and no, I am not drunk. There are however certainly many things posted in this thread that just aren’t in touch with reality.
I thought what you were saying was crazy too but you're bringing things you've heard that would reasonably support your theory at least. You should've led with this tbh bc I have never heard this uttered by anyone in all of the AHL vs KHL type debates I've seen
 
Yeah, probably the part about stifling skills development is a bit overboard by @Ola, but if you take what he stated in that post and apply it specifically to Euros, as well as the notion that development of skills is a relative thing, then his description of the AHL as a “crush course to optimize your game” for the NHL is actually spot on - and I intend to borrow it from time to time.
 
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Many U20 players in Sweden trains over 20 hours per week. On the ice three times a day. Of that maybe 7.5-10 hours is pure skill development. In the AHL the same number is maybe 2 hours.

The NCAA kids surely practice many hours a week. I am not an expert on that, but I would imagine that they also have a good 5-10 hours that more or less is pure skill development. Two skates a day?

Please provide a source for that number.
 
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The AHL is especially important to European and Russian players because the style of play here is different rink size is different and the schedule is longer in north America. So it's a lot to throw at someone and then add in that if you do that at the nhl level you are now playing against the best in the world so to drop down a league and pick up the game against lesser players makes the adjustment easier later on I'd prefer Kravtsov took that route because there is still no guarantee anything has changed when he comes back and could end up in Hartford again to get used to the n.a game
 
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I mean you're talking about season length like it's unusual. For North America, it's not. The teenagers in the CHL leagues manage to play 68-game seasons, with the better players also getting international or CHL-based tournaments, plus whatever they play in the playoffs. It's not much different than an NHL schedule, other than less games on weekdays. And this is the league (or set of leagues) that the vast majority of NHL players come from. Sooo, is the CHL doing it wrong? Does the USHL and Junior A do it wrong?

I understand your overall point about practice time vs just playing games. That's far from settled, however, as you seem to state that it is. You're basically saying that the entire model of youth hockey PLUS the AHL is based on faulty practices. I think that's crazy.

It's like you would expect to never find skilled players coming out of the CHL because they're on the bus and playing games all the time. And yet...

I also want to point out that when you're talking about 18/19-year-old players, that's largely inapplicable to the AHL. It's mostly European players who are in the league at that age, and as acknowledged, European teens have other alternatives. But talking about general player development for teenage players in the AHL doesn't really make sense, because almost none of the AHL players are that age.

I am of course not talking about "absolutes", there are certainly exceptions and reality isn't black and white, but you make fair points.

BUT, you know, isn't the bolded true to a degree? Canada has roughly 10x the amount of youth hockey players as Sweden have but only 4x the amount of NHLers. These numbers are just googled and there could be better ones available. But the point still stands, and the difference isn't small. Its significantly high.

And certainly, when we in Sweden review the rivals, US hockey is seen as the one to keep track of. Why is that? Its said that the US nat program train extremely hard and focused. And then college often follows afterwards and the college program is held in a high regard and seen as a route that gives players necessary time to develop their game.

Also, in addition, many -- and especially the top -- CHL kids have over the last decade really increased the work load summer time in terms of work on the ice and skill development dramatically to not fall behind too much. Because the CHL has certainly fallen behind over the last years. The US program and Swe/Fin programs have certainly gained ground. If any expert here in Sweden are asked about the reason for this, I can guarantee that the answer is "we train more and better". Swedish hockey is an organization that is easier to run, its easier to in detail get junior team coaches in Sweden to adopt practices than its to do the same in Canada and the coach of the CHL teams. And in Sweden the practice time has been dramatically increased, like I said up towards 20 hours per week for developing players. That is an insane amount. I wouldn't say that its an average, maybe the average is 14 hours per week for developing players, but its still extremely much.

Lastly:
*You are right, I am talking about 17-21 y/o's in general, not 22-23 y/o. There are of course no set rules here either, one 16 y/o can be like another 20 y/o in his development, or vice versa. But in general.

*My knowledge of these things are based on following the AHL and the SHL closely over the last three decades. I have no direct intel on how many hours Hartford practice per week under Knoblauch.

But like Hartford has like 8 weeks with 2 games, 12 weeks with 3 games and 4 weeks with 4 games. The SHL has 17 weeks with 2 games and 5 with 3 games. And several weeks with no games. How could they train even remotely the same amount? Three games in a week of which you travel to 1.5 on average, its not like you are going to be able to put in a lot of hard practices.

Please provide a source for that number.

Its a guess, in referenec to the paragraph above. 7 weeks a day. 3 games in a week. One day is rest/travel/just shake off the legs. 3 days left. Two hours focused on skill development -- and not systems, PP/PK, physical skating etc -- is not a low number. I think its quite high (but its a guess).
 
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Production stinks in the KHL so far. 2 points in 6 games. Third season in the KHL. Rangers would be wise to move this kid now in a package.
 
Production stinks in the KHL so far. 2 points in 6 games. Third season in the KHL. Rangers would be wise to move this kid now in a package.
He plays on an absolutely terrible, terrible hockey team. From it looks like its him and the Goalie Demchenko against everyone else.

He is going to be fine. He is 19. The talent is there.

But this is also why I wanted him to stay in Hartford. The team is winning. There is a solid coaching staff down there, best one we may have ever assembled for Hartford. Other than the buses and travel it was the right environment for him. 2 hours from NYC in case the Rangers wanted to call him up.

He will be back after the KHL season
 
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