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2017 Draft & UDFA Thread - Part III

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I like Lilejgren at 21 as a value pick... Some teams might see him and think Runblad... but the Rangers need a pick to hit and he would be a home run or a middling player. I don't think there is a middle ground with this guy.

Hesikainen is the consensus top D this year, especially after the U18s. Joey was right on the money about him becoming that guy.

Scouts like players that dominate their own level.... Lilegren played a level above with Mono... so there is your value gap right there in terms of what was on display.

You will also have teams that line up for Callan Foote... who is a very safe pick... even if his upside is that of a Number 3-4 guy... there's a three year funnel ahead of him into the NHL.

When it comes to D, take a look at the 2015 draft... everyone except CLB had Hanifin as their top D. CLB knew Zach well and scouted him thoroughly.

Chaput, Larrson, Carlson, all have a chance to be better than Hanifin.. who is a finished product in the sense that he peaked as an NHLer at 17. The hand skills and hockey sense don't say elite in my book. He was just more ready at a younger age.

That could be the case with Lilejgren.
 
Mikos87 said:
I like Lilejgren at 21 as a value pick... Some teams might see him and think Runblad... but the Rangers need a pick to hit and he would be a home run or a middling player. I don't think there is a middle ground with this guy.

Hesikainen is the consensus top D this year, especially after the U18s. Joey was right on the money about him becoming that guy.

Scouts like players that dominate their own level.... Lilegren played a level above with Mono... so there is your value gap right there in terms of what was on display.

You will also have teams that line up for Callan Foote... who is a very safe pick... even if his upside is that of a Number 3-4 guy... there's a three year funnel ahead of him into the NHL.

When it comes to D, take a look at the 2015 draft... everyone except CLB had Hanifin as their top D. CLB knew Zach well and scouted him thoroughly.

Chaput, Larrson, Carlson, all have a chance to be better than Hanifin.. who is a finished product in the sense that he peaked as an NHLer at 17. The hand skills and hockey sense don't say elite in my book. He was just more ready at a younger age.

That could be the case with Lilejgren.
Click to expand...

Honestly depending on price, I'd be interested in moving up to take Liljegren. If he's still there at 15 my interest is piqued.
 
Mikos87 said:
I like Lilejgren at 21 as a value pick... Some teams might see him and think Runblad... but the Rangers need a pick to hit and he would be a home run or a middling player. I don't think there is a middle ground with this guy.

Hesikainen is the consensus top D this year, especially after the U18s. Joey was right on the money about him becoming that guy.

Scouts like players that dominate their own level.... Lilegren played a level above with Mono... so there is your value gap right there in terms of what was on display.

You will also have teams that line up for Callan Foote... who is a very safe pick... even if his upside is that of a Number 3-4 guy... there's a three year funnel ahead of him into the NHL.

When it comes to D, take a look at the 2015 draft... everyone except CLB had Hanifin as their top D. CLB knew Zach well and scouted him thoroughly.

Chaput, Larrson, Carlson, all have a chance to be better than Hanifin.. who is a finished product in the sense that he peaked as an NHLer at 17. The hand skills and hockey sense don't say elite in my book. He was just more ready at a younger age.

That could be the case with Lilejgren.
Click to expand...

Liljegren is nothing like Rundblad though, the knock on Rundblad was his skating and to some extent his size and defensive game, but mostly his skating. Liljegren is an amazing skater where the knock on his game is his hockey IQ.

I don't think Heiskanen is the consensus #1 D-man, i think plenty of teams have Makar higher, some might have Liljegren/Välimäki and maybe even Brännström that high too.

To your point though. Yes, Liljegren would be amazing value at #21.
 
I guess I'll just change the topic of my post since people already said what I said, but yeah, Rundblad's issue was lateral mobility. I'm starting to hope more and more we draft a center because I don't think any of the dmen I want will be there at 21.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
Liljegren is nothing like Rundblad though, the knock on Rundblad was his skating and to some extent his size and defensive game, but mostly his skating. Liljegren is an amazing skater where the knock on his game is his hockey IQ.

I don't think Heiskanen is the consensus #1 D-man, i think plenty of teams have Makar higher, some might have Liljegren/Välimäki and maybe even Brännström that high too.

To your point though. Yes, Liljegren would be amazing value at #21.
Click to expand...

Runblad can skate... amazing lateral agility... Runblad didn't like anyone hitting him and would rather avoid a hit than take a hit to make a play.

That's why he moved around so much... he never liked engaging physically, offense or defense. With his skill, it was as if Jason Spezza was playing defense... and Jason Spezza doesn't do a whole lot of defense.

My guys out west think Makar has the makings of a Tyson Barrie at worst and potentially Karlsson lite.

To me Makar plays and skates a lot like Willie Nylander... yes that Willie... high skill level, outstanding 4-way mobility to create time and space.... but he did it at such a crap level that he wasn't really tested.

Necas is another one... high end skill and skating...

These are the kids that grew up post lockout and with skating coaches and composites... there's an effortlessness to their game that some players don't have... which is both good and bad. If they defend, you have a star.

If they don't you have a guy that doesn't make it.
 
Mikos87 said:
Runblad can skate... amazing lateral agility... Runblad didn't like anyone hitting him and would rather avoid a hit than take a hit to make a play.

That's why he moved around so much... he never liked engaging physically, offense or defense. With his skill, it was as if Jason Spezza was playing defense... and Jason Spezza doesn't do a whole lot of defense.

My guys out west think Makar has the makings of a Tyson Barrie at worst and potentially Karlsson lite.

To me Makar plays and skates a lot like Willie Nylander... yes that Willie... high skill level, outstanding 4-way mobility to create time and space.... but he did it at such a crap level that he wasn't really tested.

Necas is another one... high end skill and skating...

These are the kids that grew up post lockout and with skating coaches and composites... there's an effortlessness to their game that some players don't have... which is both good and bad. If they defend, you have a star.

If they don't you have a guy that doesn't make it.
Click to expand...

Rundblad was not a good skater and is still not a very good skater. Especially his lateral movement was the big knock on him.

Comparing Liljegrens skating pre draft to Rundblads skating pre draft is night and day, Liljegren skates circles around Rundblad.
 
Mac n Gs said:
I guess I'll just change the topic of my post since people already said what I said, but yeah, Rundblad's issue was lateral mobility. I'm starting to hope more and more we draft a center because I don't think any of the dmen I want will be there at 21.
Click to expand...

I disagree there, watch tapes of him in Sweden from 2009-2010... he would often skate sideways and toe drag guys out of their jock... that doesn't fly on smaller ice and in a faster game in the NHL.

He couldn't pull those moves off without getting creamed. Too East/West not a North/South player at all. All Perimeter player.

 
Mikos87 said:
I disagree there, watch tapes of him in Sweden from 2009-2010... he would often skate sideways and toe drag guys out of their jock... that doesn't fly on smaller ice and in a faster game in the NHL.

He couldn't pull those moves off without getting creamed. Too East/West not a North/South player at all. All Perimeter player.

Click to expand...


Exactly that's what I was trying to get at. He's a big ice player and he can't play along the boards. He'd get torched by guys on the counter attack at the blue line too because he couldn't pivot fast enough or keep pucks in.

I don't see these problems with Liljegren.
 
I don't see much impressive skating in there, i do see A LOT of impressive stickhandling though and some HUGE hits... Weird, i thought he was a perimater player? :)
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
I don't see much impressive skating in there, i do see A LOT of impressive stickhandling though and some HUGE hits... Weird, i thought he was a perimater player? :)
Click to expand...

Hitting small guys with their head down yeah, when he was hit at the NHL level he was a turnover machine. And all those plays were off the perimeter creating space laterally.

Very Euro-Centric game that doesn't translate well to NA. Which is great when you have wider ice.

Compare that to Karlsson who goes straight at guys. Not saying he is the 6 gear monster that Karlsson is, but in terms of play... very different players.

 
I'm not arguing how Rundblad played here, was just taking a small jab at your description. What i'm arguing is that Rundblad's biggest issue was his skating, and still is probably.
A D-man with his style needs to be a good skater imo. If nothing else then to get some trust from his coach.
I think Rundblad was/is an NHL D-man but he just never got a coach to trust him.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
I'm not arguing how Rundblad played here, was just taking a small jab at your description. What i'm arguing is that Rundblad's biggest issue was his skating, and still is probably.
Click to expand...

And I would argue it's a lack of courage/guts and fearlessness.

It's the same difference between McDonagh and a John Moore.. Moore has all the tools but what's he lacking? Is it strictly physical or something else?
 
Remaining Potential Free Agents

I agree with Amazing Kreiderman that the NHL ready players have been signed. But there still available free agents who will get NHL contracts and there are several more who will earn AHL contracts. Here are some names to keep an eye on:

Foreign:

* Vladimir Tkachyov will be attending New York Rangers development camp in July. He played in the QMJHL from 2013-2015 so he is used to North American ice. This past year he averaged a point a game in the KHL. While he is under contract to the KHL for next year it is interesting that he is coming to the Rangers camp. It is unclear whether he can get out of his contract or whether he is looking at 2018-2019. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=211956

NCAA

All of the top NCAA seniors and most of the top underclassman who are coming out have been signed.

Underclassmen

* Spencer Foo — One underclassmen who has announced he is coming out but has not yet signed is Spencer Foo of Union. He played with Mike Vecchione whom the Rangers tried to sign. He was a big time scorer at Union. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=107388

There are a few highly rated players who appear to be headed back to school but still could come out. It will be be interesting to see if any of these players show up at an NHL development camp. Two names that showed up on many of the top NCAA prospects list:

* Adam Johnson — Minnesota Duluth. 22 year old left wing point per game in sophomore year. Ranked 10 best NCAA free agent 87 best NCAA player by SB Nation. Teammate of Neil Pionk and recent Hartford signee Brenden Kotyk. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=121852
* Tyler Sheehy — Minnesota. Sophomore center with 53 points in 38 games. Ranked 74 best NCAA prospect by SB Nation. Teammate of Rangers signee Vinnie LIttieri. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=118549

Drafted and Unsigned

There are about 20 drafted college players who have yet to sign and will become free agents on August 16. There are four to pay attention to:

Will Butcher — Hobey Baker winner. Puck moving defensemen drafted by Colorado. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=97590
Alex Kerfoot — New Jersey draft choice and former Jimmy Vesey teammate. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=97590
Dominic Toninato — Minnesota Duluth center and Hobey Baker nominee. Toronto draftee offered contract last year but turned it down to go back to school. This year may not be signed by Toronto because of lack of contract space. https://www.thestar.com/sports/leaf...-weighs-prospects-five-years-after-draft.html http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=122004

Draft Eligible

NCAA players who are or will be 20 this year are draft eligible but if undrafted become free agents. One name stands out:

Denis Smirnov has completed one year at Penn State and averaged a point a game as a 19 year old freshman. If undrafted he could go back to school but he could decide to leave if he is offered a contract. Steve Koumianos listed 200 top overages for the upcoming draft. Smirnov is one of his top selections. Ranked 167 NA skaters by Central Scouting http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=248278

Junior Hockey

There are plenty of undrafted players, a few players who were drafted but unsigned by the June 1 deadline, and several 20 year olds who if undrafted will become free agents:

Undrafted

Darren Raddysh — Top right handed defensemen on Erie Otters who lost to Sean Day’s Windsor team in the Memorial Cup final. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=205556
Tyler Boland — 2nd leading scorer in QMJHL. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=200112

June 1 Free Agents

Stephan Desrocher — Kingston Defenseman and 2015 Toronto pick. Another Toronto contract crush victim. http://thehockeywriters.com/toronto-maple-leafs-need-to-sign-stephen-desrocher/ http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=205526

Draft Eligible

Steve Koumianos listed 200 top overages for the upcoming draft. About 60 of these are players who, if undrafted, age out and become free agents. Here are a couple of his top picks for non goalies:

Kristiens Rubins — Medicine Hat defenseman. Has played for Latvian U-18 and U-20 national teams. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=207726
Patrick Bajkov — Everett WHL winger. Point per game at age 19. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=199940
Maxime Fortier — Halifax forward averaging a point a game for two years. Ranked 181 for NA skaters. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=213461

Drafted and Unsigned and Back in Draft

Giorgio Estephan — Buffalo 2015 pick. The center scored over a point a game for two years with Lethbridge. Here is the Elite Prospects write up: “A slippery offensive center with tons of skill and offensive prowess. When he is confident with the puck, he can pull off moves that open up a lot of time and space for himself and teammates. Can create a lot of dangerous chances through utilizing his smooth skating and knowledge of the offensive end. Continues to get better in his own end, defensively and physically. All-in-all, a smart, hard-working center who continues to improve in all areas, game by game, and is not far off from becoming a complete, well-rounded hockey player who can dominate offensively. (Curtis Joe, EP 2014) - See more at: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=131304#sthash.fY61mGAy.dpuf
Nikita Korostelov — Toronto 2015 pick from OHL also appears to have gotten caught in Toronto contract crunch. Here is Elite Prospects write up: “A deft skater that plays a skill-based, puck-possession game. Very creative with the puck: can let loose an accurate bullet, utilize his stickhandling ability to create chances, or make a seeing-eye pass to an open teammate. Good hands around the net and relentless on the forecheck. Doesn't shy away from the physical game. All-in-all, a very creative sniper that can set up, score, and play physical. “(Curtis Joe, EP 2014) - See more at: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=183258#sthash.k0Syapbo.dpuf

These 2 become free agents if not drafted.

I am not arguing that any of these guys are the next Sydney Crosby or Erik Karlsson but they are names to pay attention to following the draft as possibly receiving NHL or AHL cortracts.


Amazing Kreiderman said:
I don't think there are any players left I am interested in. Rutta signed with Chicago and now it just seems like all the NHL-ready players are signed.
Click to expand...
 
Ranger Ric said:
I agree with Amazing Kreiderman that the NHL ready players have been signed. But there still available free agents who will get NHL contracts and there are several more who will earn AHL contracts. Here are some names to keep an eye on:

Foreign:

* Vladimir Tkachyov will be attending New York Rangers development camp in July. He played in the QMJHL from 2013-2015 so he is used to North American ice. This past year he averaged a point a game in the KHL. While he is under contract to the KHL for next year it is interesting that he is coming to the Rangers camp. It is unclear whether he can get out of his contract or whether he is looking at 2018-2019. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=211956
Click to expand...

I wish we could get rid of the myth about Russians not being used to NA-sized rinks unless they played in NA. There are a bunch of teams in the KHL who use NA-sized rinks. Tkachev's team is one of them.

PS: I like that you named Bajkov as a target. I like that kid. Was the heart and soul of the Tips team together with Leedahl. Very reliable defensively, which are the type of players who tend to transition well to pro hockey
 
Note, it's a ranking, not a mock draft, important distinction.

Finally working on my draft ranking, i'll share my VERY provisional 1st round so far, this is pretty much just a rough draft so any input is welcome :)

1. Elias Pettersson
2. Nico Hischier
3. Nolan Patrick
4. Erik Brännström
5. Gabriel Vilardi
6. Miro Heiskanen
7. Timothy Liljegren
8. Cody Glass
9. Eeli Tolvanen
10. Nick Suzuki
11. Juuso Välimäki
12. Kailer Yamamoto
13. Owen Tippett
14. Cale Makar
15. Urho Vaakanainen
16. Casey Mittelstadt
17. Martin Necas
18. Lias Andersson
19. Klim Kostin
20. Nicolas Hague
21. Ivan Lodnia
22. Kristian Vesalainen
23. Jaret Anderson-Dolan
24. Henri Jokiharju
25. Joni Ikonen
26. Robin Salo
27. Callan Foote
28. Pierre-Olivier Joseph
29. Jesper Boqvist
30. Ivan Chekovich
31. Alexei Lipanov

Edit: As i said, it's very provisional. I think i'm underestimating USHL a bit in general so i'll look into that. It's also very hard for me to rank the non Swedish/Finnish based EU players in comparison to the CHL, i'll look into that more aswell :P

Edit2: I'm already thinking about dropping Vesalainen a bit, atleast behind Ikonen.
 
Last edited:
My thoughts:

- Makar at 14 makes sense. After all the mocks putting him in the top-5, this is a nice change. I think he will drop to 15-20.
- Pettersson no 1 is a big surprise. Think he will go top-5 though
- Brannstrom goes 21st, you know that ;)
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
My thoughts:

- Makar at 14 makes sense. After all the mocks putting him in the top-5, this is a nice change. I think he will drop to 15-20.
- Pettersson no 1 is a big surprise. Think he will go top-5 though
- Brannstrom goes 21st, you know that ;)
Click to expand...

Haha, this is a ranking though, not a mock :)
 
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