(You've already have made up your mind about) Zack Bogosian

[Joey Hoser]

I cannot answer this for reasons of rhetorical.

I will admit that he's bad when he has a lot of bad games. In the meantime I am going to defend him. He was better in the 2nd half of the game. He is not a bum. You don't get to play 17 min. a night in the cup finals because you're a bum.

I didn't say he's a bum. I said he took 2 bad penalties and didn't play well, and will need to play better than that in order to stay in the lineup.

And he didn't play 17 minutes a night in the cup finals. He played 10 minutes one night, 19 another, and didn't even play the rest of the games.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I am not looking to anoint ZB as a Norris candidate, just want to keep the facts accurate.
He played 20 of 25 playoff games for TB 80%, or 18 of 23 games 78% depending if you count the playin round which NHL.com does.

He brings muscle, a RH shot, and not a ton of foot speed but TML brass knew this when he was signed.

FFS he was scratched in most of the finals games. Why are people fighting me on this?

 

[ottomaddox]

So your going to accuse others because they don't agree with your opinion?

No, but it's awfully curious as to why people are so quick to rip him.

He's been a leaf for 1 NHL game and I can see venom today and last night.

 

[SprDaVE]

He's a veteran and regressing bottom pairing defenseman. You get what you get. Expecting him to be more than he is isn't wise.

He'll rotate in and out of the lineup along with other options. He expects this himself.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Cut him.
2 penalties from being slow and dumb. 1 penalty from being dumb and shooting the puck into the leafs bench as they were changing.

when the puck gets on his stick he takes forever to make a decision and by the time he does someone is on him so he either gives the puck away or indirectly does by passing it to nobody.

he’s like a slower, dumber Polak

 

[93WrapAround]

Pinch is fine, he has the support to make it leaving a 2on2 with back pressure. JT reaches instead of playing is angle and that costs him. Plus a soft one on Fred.

Lots to blame Bogo for, I wouldn't resort to a supported pinch where others mistakes cause the goal.

I agree with you that Tavares and Freddy were just as, if not more, responsible for that goal. I didn't say he was the only one to blame nor that it was his worst play of the night (his turnover and penalty was), but this is a thread about Bogo and not Tavares/Freddy. Furthermore, he is the only one of those players we haven't seen a large body of work as a Leaf, ie. we know what Tavares and Freddy are, but obviously there's extra intrigue to evaluate the new guys, while keeping in mind one game or one play doesn't conclude this evaluation.

That being said, I was critiquing the actual pinch itself, and not anything else that went wrong or went into making the decision. If you read my analysis, it had nothing to do with it being the wrong time to pinch (your response) but everything to do with the mechanics of that pinch once the decision was made. Why block off the side wall/come at that angle when Tavares has that covered back-checking - the only risk was indeed what happened, a pass up the middle to the C. Should have been much more aggressive (not backing into the pinch/half-measure) and from an angle that would block the lane passing to the C.

 

[93WrapAround]

And if he doesn't, who really cares at the end of the day?

What are people really expecting of a player on a 1-year, almost league-minimum deal?

I'd love to hear it.

Surely the expectation would be that such a player hurting our team, would not be in the lineup. Just because the expectation isn't high, doesn't mean you don't evaluate the risk of him simply playing for our team..

 

[Bomber0104]

Surely the expectation would be that such a player hurting our team, would not be in the lineup. Just because the expectation isn't high, doesn't mean you don't evaluate the risk of him simply playing for our team..

Ah, so you're upset with the coach for playing him over the other league minimum options we have.

 

[Gallagbi]

That being said, I was critiquing the actual pinch itself, and not anything else that went wrong or went into making the decision. If you read my analysis, it had nothing to do with it being the wrong time to pinch (your response) but everything to do with the mechanics of that pinch once the decision was made. Why block off the side wall/come at that angle when Tavares has that covered back-checking - the only risk was indeed what happened, a pass up the middle to the C. Should have been much more aggressive (not backing into the pinch/half-measure) and from an angle that would block the lane passing to the C.

I think you're being overly specific and unfair.

Hes pinching, so he isn't going to cover all areas. He cuts the most likely and common exit, forcing the play into his support, which doesn't put the team at any disadvantage. Tavares isn't in a position to cutoff the boards given his positioning.

It's not a pinch I'm showing as a textbook play, but you're going to see much worse pinches on a nightly basis.

 

[93WrapAround]

Ah, so you're upset with the coach for playing him over the other league minimum options we have.

Obv not upset NOW, it was Game 1. I was responding to what seemed like a 'who cares how he plays when he's not making any money' type of mentality, which is obv flawed/wrong.

 

[93WrapAround]

I think you're being overly specific and unfair.

Hes pinching, so he isn't going to cover all areas. He cuts the most likely and common exit, forcing the play into his support, which doesn't put the team at any disadvantage. Tavares isn't in a position to cutoff the boards given his positioning.

It's not a pinch I'm showing as a textbook play, but you're going to see much worse pinches on a nightly basis.

Perhaps you're right, upon viewing the video again I thought Tavares was closer to the boards than he was, so if chipped up the boards Anderson probably recovers that too. I guess it just seemed like a half-hearted effort, but anyway, def will give him more time to see whether this game was just an anomaly. I'm definitely doubtful at this point, but hope I'm wrong.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

Yeah, unwarranted hatred right now. I'm alright having bogo as our #6. It's those guys that you hope are going to be playing the dirty hockey and not being a liability. Everyone looked bad last night, set aside Matty and Willie. Bogo is a player that is, unfortunately, going to get alot of flack from the fan base because of the fact that he isn't elite at anything. Truth be told though, I'd rather have bogo battling in front of the net and in the corners instead of marincin. Let's keep a positive perspective

 

[Zybalto]

Jeez, the pinch wasn't that bad at the time and Tavares was actually fine coming back and misplayed Anderson going to the net which allowed him to get a decent shot off which went through Andersen (1st game, 2 shots go "through" Andersen. Sigh)

Bogo is third on the blame list there and its pretty minimal.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Anyone who has played D competitively knows that if the player has possession on the half wall 9/10 times you are beat if you pinch. Maybe you do it if you are down and trying to keep offensive zone time, but in a tied game that isnt a necessary risk.

If it's a loose puck on the half wall the battle becomes closer to 50/50, in which case a proper team structure with a high C can cover for the pinch. But Bogos decision here wasnt well timed as it was an easy out to the streaking winger for the Habs player.

Agreed, that was a rough, flat-footed pinch. Tavares got beat too easily as well and it was a savable shot. Lots of blame to go around.

I don't mind our mobile defensemen pinching/holding the line (Rielly in particular is excellent at it) but others need to play within their limitations.

 

[Macallan18]

He's a veteran and regressing bottom pairing defenseman. You get what you get. Expecting him to be more than he is isn't wise.

He'll rotate in and out of the lineup along with other options. He expects this himself.

I believe we have better options.
Polak v2 just doesn't cut it for me.
And I don't want to go off topic, but Barababanov over Robertson?

 

[Macallan18]

Jeez, the Pinch wasn't that bad

Yes it was. You have to save your pennies and start drinking decent scotch laddie.

 

[BlueForever75]

I guess we should cut Marner for 2 horrendous giveaways last night, Andersen for not making the big saves, Tavares for being blown by on 4th goal, and Matthews for not scoring as he usually does on opening nights!!!

Give me a break people. Its game one without exhibition games with a few new faces. We won and were the better of the 2 teams. Thats what matters.

 

[93WrapAround]

I guess we should cut Marner for 2 horrendous giveaways last night, Andersen for not making the big saves, Tavares for being blown by on 4th goal, and Matthews for not scoring as he usually does on opening nights!!!

Give me a break people. Its game one without exhibition games with a few new faces. We won and were the better of the 2 teams. Thats what matters.

Is it not expected that the new guys will ALL be put under a microscope much more so than established Leafs? None of those older Leafs are immune to criticism, nor have they been on here in the slightest - just look at activity following our PO exits. But the new Leafs with no prior sample size or good vibes to balance out any bad vibes, were always going to get put under the microscope. This is expected imo. Don't take the extreme takes so seriously, this message board will always have them after every single game.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

It's been one game. Seems like jumping the gun just a bit to write him off.

 

[Lemontree]

I am happy to have him as a 3rd pairing D man who rotates in and out of the lineup. This condensed regular season schedule is viewed the same as the home stretch (post trade deadline) and playoffs, he is the type of Dman that you pickup at the Trade Deadline for depth when you are trying to have 8 NHL caliber Dmen who can step in if needed.

I do not think it is wise if the plan is for him is to be a fixture every game which is not based on his game last night but an acknowledgment of where he is at this point in his playing career.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I noticed during and after the game many leaf fans were ripping Bogosian. What gives? I sort of felt like a lot leafs had bad moments last night. Bogosian didn't do anything to warrant hatred from Leafs Nation. Is it because he took a couple of penalties? I felt like he had to at times. Our defensive structure and game planning didn't quite show up. That's not on Bogosian. That's on the coaching. A lot of what I saw was rust and unfamiliar players playing together. That doesn't make Bogosian the lead scapegoat sorry. He deserves better than the judgements and blind criticism. In fact I only thought Brodie was the only player on the blue line who was steady. Every other defenseman did not have a strong game last night.

Nobody makes their mind up on a new player after 1 game but it's fair to say he sucked last night, because he sucked last night

 

[BayStBullies]

Welcome to Leafsnation, where the D are evaluated solely based off scoring. If you can't score, you're a potato. Then there are threads after threads whining about why this team always loses.

 

[sparxx87]

Nobody makes their mind up on a new player after 1 game but it's fair to say he sucked last night, because he sucked last night

That’s sensible.. but you’ll find at least a few who’d made up their mind after zero games.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I noticed during and after the game many leaf fans were ripping Bogosian. What gives? I sort of felt like a lot leafs had bad moments last night. Bogosian didn't do anything to warrant hatred from Leafs Nation. Is it because he took a couple of penalties? I felt like he had to at times. Our defensive structure and game planning didn't quite show up. That's not on Bogosian. That's on the coaching. A lot of what I saw was rust and unfamiliar players playing together. That doesn't make Bogosian the lead scapegoat sorry. He deserves better than the judgements and blind criticism. In fact I only thought Brodie was the only player on the blue line who was steady. Every other defenseman did not have a strong game last night.

It was the first game of the year, really the first pre-season game against competition since there was no camp. I warned fans on here when Leafs were down 3-1, "relax, it's the first game after a long time off". Many of them don't even know each other on the ice in a competitive situation.

For some reason, the younger fans think "if a guy isn't an end-to-end rusher who can make behind the back passes on the fly, then he's an old pylon and useless". It's an absurd view, especially for defensemen.

Some also think anyone over 35 thinks we want only Brian Burke type players (even he doesn't want just these types, you can be sure. He didn't fly to Sweden to sign the Sedins because he lost a bet) and that we all want to see 3-4 fights a night and guys getting head hunted. This is also a misnomer.

The reality is, a team needs balance. They will find their rhythm and each others tendencies over the course of the year. Especially throughout the condensed season where injuries and changes happen.

I think picking up Brodie and Bogosian were big moves on the back end. When you face the same teams often and they start to build a hate for the team, you are sure as hell going to be happy that you have guys like Simmonds and Bogosian on the ice.

Come playoff time, if we don't have players like this, it's going to another grind for the forwards. We all love the flash and pizzazz of the players, but it has to be balanced with veteran leadership and guys who really don't like to lose.

I'm going to bet we see a more committed team this year. Matthews already looks like a guy who is possessed and it's only been one game.

 

[Menzinger]

He had a rough game.

But these first 5ish games are going to be rough for a lot of guys given thr lack of preseason -especially new savings. Id be wary of folks drawing too large of conclusions about guys before we hit closer to that mark.

I'm hoping he can solidify himself on thr Leafs PK sooner than later