GDT: Your New Jersey Devils vs. New York Islanders, 7 PM, MSGSN/MSGSN2

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Ok, so what's the solution? More blaming on Vitek?

I know there's different posters here but so far the only suggestion that seems like a solution is "play Schmid more" which is going to happen until he falters.

The consensus overall on the board seems to be

1. The goaltending sucks
2. We can't change how we play
3. We can't trade for a goalie, except for my brilliant trade idea that will never happen
4. None of this is Fitz's fault

Idk some people maybe waver on one of those 4 points but that's the vibe I get reading this board. A trade simply must happen before the playoffs, maybe the team can hold on until the deadline, but this is Fitz's bed he made for himself imo.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Well he is better then Vitek. We all should know this.


But do the Isle's give up that many truly high quality chances against each game? I don't know. But I figure they don't.

I do know one of the best goalies got smoked when his team did give up those chances.

Yea, they do. You literally saw it in both games the Devils played against them. The goalies will get smoked every once in a while but overall will put in good mins


Again, asking for .900 goaltending on the Devils is not outlandish to ask for

 

[Bleedred]

I'm never laying the blame on the goalie for a breakaway.

None of the goals last night are on Vitek, and that's one thing he has going for him this year, he's not letting in softies.

Is it true he is not making many big saves? I do think that is accurate. But we also give up a ton of glorious scoring chances.

Sal noted the other night we were 4th worst in uncontested shots from the slot. Last night he posted a breakaway/odd man rush stat, that I only caught in passing, so I didn't get the full details, but we were below water, which for a high octane team, indicates we are giving up a ton of opp's........despite the often posted stats which want to paint us as a tight knit defensive team.

The first goal is definitely a bad goal. It hits him and it still goes in. He was over in time and it still goes through him. Why was that not bad? Because it was on the power play?

He seems to be letting in about one pretty soft goal more games than not.

Obviously, the Buffalo game he didn’t.

 

[Bleedred]

The bigger question than “Why does Vitek suck?” Is “Why does Vitek play as many games as he does?” Why does Schmid only get one start a week? Because he was really bad in his second and third starts of the season? Last month? Because he got blown up in Winnipeg like everybody else does (like Vitek did last year and got pulled) who plays for us?

His play in the month of November is considerably above average, if not really solid.


Vitek in November has been approaching Cory Schneider’s November/December of 2018 or October of 2019.

And he’s played in 9 games!

NINE games!

ALL STARTS!

He’s started f***in 75% of the team’s games this month. We are god damn lucky this hasn’t already DESTROYED the season. The fact they don’t wanna give another goalie a try.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but your point is that we get on Vanecek and call him bad for giving up goals (because we’re ignoring the context) while at the same time we do not say sorokin sucks when he gives up goals.

And my point is, yes individual goals can be the teams fault, but when a dude spends 1/4 the season giving up a GAA of 3.5 and a sv% of .879 behind a team that has middle of the road xGA numbers he doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. We’re not a uniquely bad team in giving up chances against that are wildly high danger. Data doesn’t support it, eye test doesn’t support it.

Sorokin had a bad game, it happens, but I PROMISE you he’d stop a hell of a lot more goals than VITEK if he were playing on this team.

No, my point is even a goalie like Sorokin can give up goals on HD chances and when the team is playing like shit. Constantly barraging Vitek when 1. this team gives up tons of them 2. Vitek is not a good goalie, is just hilarious to me.

Yes Sorokin would do much better than Vitek, no shit, he's a top 3 goalie in the NHL. Is that the standard? Like I wrote a bit ago, that is the level of goaltending we'd need to solidify the team (with no other changes I mean). Getting slightly better goaltending would help sure, but it's not the solution.

 

[Bleedred]

This is getting towards the territory where we had to start playing Kinkaid almost every game in the fall of 2018, because Cory was completely unplayable.

Only John Hynes (the head coach that everybody here hates, including me) was SMART enough to keep Cory out of the nets other than once a week-ish.

Ruff isn’t doing that.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

The solution is play less vitek until we find a replacement for him or he remembers how to tend goal in a way that doesn’t destroy the team.

I agree, but then why is everyone constantly bashing Vitek? It's not his fault the coach keeps playing him when he's struggling.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

There are several solutions, actually, and we don't even know the behind-the-scenes to see if they've been attempted:

1. Replace the goaltending coach. I don't think this one is working out and we've had success with prior coaches (did they retire?)
2. Sports-related therapy for players HAS worked before and I think Vitek needs it more than anyone I've seen
3. "rehab" stint in the minors after an "injury" to get him some confidence, playing time.
4. Play Schmid more if we feel like he's the more reliable, solid goaltender
5. Make a trade for a player in the situation I described in the Devils Team Thread - where there are players blocked by other players (Jaros/Askarov, Markstrom/Wolf, etc.)
6. Attempt to buy a KHL established goalie aged 26-28 6'+ who has .915+ (there are several) and no NHL rights owned.
7. Work on the defense pinching and simplify the system to provide more shot support and reduce number of breakaways, n-on-1s, and open guys in the slot. It may reduce offense but it won't matter as it could be offset by 1-2 fewer GA/night.

There's lots to do. But continuing to play Vanacek without doing any of these is the definition of insanity.

He may not be the only problem but only someone being willfully ignorant would suggest he isn't A problem.

Again, none of this is solved by blaming Vitek on every single goal. That aside, I think #7 is the easiest but who knows if they'll ever do it.

 

[Bleedred]

Once again, we’re lucky the season isn’t already destroyed by the Vitek bender the people who make the decisions went on during the month of November.

His numbers are beyond ugly this month, while Schmid’s aren’t. And they were already pretty ugly before last night.

75% of the starts. And he’s played like two good games this month. And the defense played really good in one of them.

And there was one game where we only allowed 12 shots. He was probably gonna give up 3-4 if we allowed 20+ shots that game.

 

[forceten]

Again, none of this is solved by blaming Vitek on every single goal. That aside, I think #7 is the easiest but who knows if they'll ever do it.

Nothing is SOLVED by old men and women on a message forum! We're frustrated, and we have every right to be.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Nothing is SOLVED by old men and women on a message forum! We're frustrated, and we have every right to be.

Yelling at someone who is actually incompetent to be competent is hilarious, sorry.

 

[Guttersniped]

Well he is better then Vitek. We all should know this.

I don’t even know what you’re debating here. It’s not like people don’t want the defense to tighten up or don’t want continued improvements with possession or don’t admit mistakes happen in front of Vanecek.

We aren’t the worst team in the league defensively however so we shouldn’t have the one of the worst starting goaltenders in the NHL. People are going to complain about the goalie with a .879 SV and you can’t stop them.

Sometimes some goalies don’t perform well.

When players don’t have faith in a goalie and the goalie’s confidence is shot there’s a danger of a death spiral. The team plays jumpy in front of a goalie while they completely meltdown whenever things start to go wrong.

What do we do?

In season goalie trades are uncommon, and we aren’t the only team needing an upgrade, so I’m not wildly optimistic about a trade happening. Who knows though.

It sucks.

Yelling at someone who is actually incompetent to be competent is hilarious, sorry.

Is Vitek on the board or something?

 

[My3Sons]

Nothing is SOLVED by old men and women on a message forum! We're frustrated, and we have every right to be.

Maybe not the old men and women, but the young fresh and vibrant people like me can do wonders. I feel sorry for all of you that have made it past your expiration date.

 

[MadDevil]

Yelling at someone who is actually incompetent to be competent is hilarious, sorry.

So I shouldn't yell at Ruff for continuing to trot an incompetent goalie out there?

There is no easy solution but I might try playing the guy who has better numbers a little bit more first.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Yeah these defenses on here is just bizarre now lol

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

It's a recurring theme that Vitek let's in 3 or 4 goals every game.but at the same time the defensive breakdowns are just the same. A breakaway goal , a wide open powerplay onetime shot and that 4th Islanders goal was just a thing of beauty. It's hard to really blame the goalie for this one. I mean with that 4th goal if he somehow stopped it than it would be one of the biggest saves of the year. Not every game is going to be like the Sabres game but they could certainly play better infront of whoever is in net.

 

[Devs3cups]

That’s the thing, Vitek isn’t incompetent. He’s been an average to slightly above average his entire career. He’s playing way below par right now.

Also, I’d be all for tightening up the defensive structure. But with how Vitek is playing right now I doubt that less chances against would change a whole lot. Feels like every single HD chance goes in right now. Isles didn’t create a whole lot last night. Their best chances all went in.

 

[MadDevil]

Schmid's last 5 appearances...

.939
.952 (in relief after Vitek shit himself)
.833
.929
1.00 (in relief after Vitek shit himself)

How is he putting up these numbers behind this historically bad defense that bleeds constant odd man rushes and breakaways?

 

[Incharge1976]

Is Jack still hitting 100?

His real pace is 134 points but it shows 107 due to the games he missed, but if he doesn't miss another games he is on pace for the 134.

 

[devilsblood]

Schmid's last 5 appearances...

.939
.952 (in relief after Vitek shit himself)
.833
.929
1.00 (in relief after Vitek shit himself)

How is he putting up these numbers behind this historically bad defense that bleeds constant odd man rushes and breakaways?

Every game is different. Even in game last night it was different. Isle's didn't have a real good look on Schmid, yet 3 looks of the highest quality vs Vitek.

I don’t even know what you’re debating here. It’s not like people don’t want the defense to tighten up or don’t want continued improvements with possession or don’t admit mistakes happen in front of Vanecek.

We aren’t the worst team in the league defensively however so we shouldn’t have the one of the worst starting goaltenders in the NHL. People are going to complain about the goalie with a .879 SV and you can’t stop them.

Sometimes some goalies don’t perform well.
View attachment 775105

When players don’t have faith in a goalie and the goalie’s confidence is shot there’s a danger of a death spiral. The team plays jumpy in front of a goalie while they completely meltdown whenever things start to go wrong.

What do we do?

In season goalie trades are uncommon, and we aren’t the only team needing an upgrade, so I’m not wildly optimistic about a trade happening. Who knows though.

It sucks.



Is Vitek on the board or something?

That it's not surprising to see an average/below average goalie let in a lot of goals given the THQ chances allowed.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Isle's didn't have a real good look on Schmid

Akira had a huge save on a point blank chance in the crease where he was able to close his armpit on the puck

 

[devilsblood]

Akira had a huge save on a point blank chance in the crease where he was able to close his armpit on the puck

View attachment 775125

So 3.2 xgoals while Vitek was in. .5 while Akira was in.

Notice the expected goals early in the game by the Isle's. So Vitek was making saves then.

But I think this kind of shows the weakness of these stats. The last goal was basically unstoppable, but barely shows up in the x goals.

 

[NjDevsRR]

So 3.2 xgoals while Vitek was in. .5 while Akira was in.

Notice the expected goals early in the game by the Isle's. So Vitek was making saves then.

But I think this kind of shows the weakness of these stats. The last goal was basically unstoppable, but barely shows up in the x goals.

You are spinning in circles. Stats showed Vitek gave up 4 on 3.2 and Akira 0 on .8 and that somehow makes Vitek look better?


Then we give you a four gm sample of Akira at .917 in this same stretch and that doesn’t matter while Vitek is like 60 pts below him in that same stretch….

I give up

 

[devilsblood]

You are spinning in circles. Stats showed Vitek gave up 4 on 3.2 and Akira 0 on .8 and that somehow makes Vitek look better?


Then we give you a five gm sampke of Alira at .917 in this same stretch and that doesn’t matter

I give up

Not spinning in circles. Vitek did make saves. And the chart doesn't give a great representation of the actual quality of chances. Ignore those points if you want, but it's undeniable.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Not spinning in circles. Vitek did make saves. And the chart doesn't give a great representation of the actual quality of chances. Ignore those points if you want, but it's undeniable.

I think you need to watch more out of town games