GDT: Your New Jersey Devils vs. New York Islanders, 7 PM, MSGSN/MSGSN2

[devilsblood]

*completely ignores the ten goalies at .900 who are on bottom defensive teams*

Sorry I called you on your BS, but yeah, this completely ignores my point about the stats Sal has been posting which aren't made public.

Without knowing those stats we really don't who the worst defensive teams are.

We do know that Sal had us at 4th worst in terms of uncontested shots from the slot. Which definitely isn't good.

 

[Triumph]

The thing about Vitek is that he is right now a much different bad than Blackwood, who would give up all kinds of trash goals from outside and would fail to fight through screens and who was frustrating in that sense. Vitek has made almost all the saves on ones he 'should have' - he's right in line with other goalies on low-danger shots. He just hasn't made enough stops on difficult chances; the kind of thing where most goalies are stopping around 80% of those and Vitek is stopping 70%.

 

[devilsblood]

What points? People admit the last goal was pretty unstoppable. Vitek has gotten saved by posts and errant shots while he’s flopping around like a suffocating fish, it goes both ways.

Are you arguing Vanecek both has played well this season and is not worse than last season? I personally believe that’s a f***ing weird thing to argue.

Listen to what Ruff says when asked about Vitek. As a coach he wants them to limit the high quality opportunities against, and he mentions the sloppy play that led to two of the goals against last night, but he also points out that we either get saves on those or you don’t. He’s not exactly defending Vanecek there because we aren’t getting the saves.

Fans have zero faith in Vanecek. The players say otherwise but I felt like they started to visibly panic after the 2nd goal because they aren’t particularly confident in him either.

If we have to have a near perfect game, like we did vs Pittsburgh or Buffalo, to get a W with Vanecek then this is going to be a long season. You need your goalie to be one of best players in some games to get a win. He did that last year.

Hopefully Vitek can play better. Having him play through this isn’t currently working, and he’s a mess in the net, so I would like him to play less. The coaches might have real reasons for not playing Schmid more so I feel like we might just be in goalie hell (again). Again, who knows. (Not me.)

But keep fist fighting the stats, and the eye test, and defend and argue whatever it is you’re defending and arguing.

Point was that unstoppable goal was barely a blip on the xGF chart. I said this.

The thing about Vitek is that he is right now a much different bad than Blackwood, who would give up all kinds of trash goals from outside and would fail to fight through screens and who was frustrating in that sense. Vitek has made almost all the saves on ones he 'should have' - he's right in line with other goalies on low-danger shots. He just hasn't made enough stops on difficult chances; the kind of thing where most goalies are stopping around 80% of those and Vitek is stopping 70%.

We don't know the actual numbers.

But I do agree with this general idea. Posted pretty much the same last night.

@devilsblood Add the Ducks in there, I missed them. Gibson with a .913

So eleven goalies at .900 in this league who are on seven bad defensive teams.

So what do you say to that in terms of Vitek being 20-35 points below them? It’s not even comparable. Vitek has been atrocious and I hate to say it because I love the guy and he had a great regular season last year. But even since the spring of last season he has been one of the worst goalies in the entire league

I already responded.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Why are all the counters to this goalie discussion making it sound like we think vitek is playing well? I don't get it...

Probably the constant apologetics. And you’re just underrating how bad the goaltending has been. You just said this team isn’t winning anything with “league average goaltending”. I don’t believe that’s the case, at all. We’d do a great deal of winning if we get that. And once you’re in, anything can happen.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Vitek is letting in a goal on every 8-9 shots. You aren’t winning shit with that at the moment.

Even with Schmids bad start he is near .900. Give him the reigns and see if he can stabilize things. Apologists can continue on the Vitek train for now but Ruff needs to make the obvious choice and ride Akira for a little bit. Fitz needs to he on the phone’s looking for a bargain upgrade if that is even possible

 

[Guttersniped]

Why are all the counters to this goalie discussion making it sound like we think vitek is playing well? I don't get it...

Then I don’t know what “the goalie discussion” is about then if there’s a general agreement that Vitek isn’t playing well.

Because people here discuss the defensive mistakes. People have discussed the flaws in our defensive system since forever. Ruff’s coaching gets criticized.

They also discuss the off-season losses on defense, potential future call-ups and trades for defensemen. Not sure why some people act like the defense isn’t discussed.

The below average goaltending is just one of our problems. It is a big problem though, one that’s now typically the main topic when NHL media talking heads discuss Devils Hockey.

 

[NjDevsRR]

 

[TrufleShufle]

Then I don’t know what “the goalie discussion” is about then if there’s a general agreement that Vitek isn’t playing well.

Because people here discuss the defensive mistakes. People have discussed the flaws in our defensive system since forever. Ruff’s coaching gets criticized.

They also discuss the off-season losses on defense, potential future call-ups and trades for defensemen. Not sure why some people act like the defense isn’t discussed.

The below average goaltending is just one of our problems. It is a big problem though, one that’s now typically the main topic when NHL media talking heads discuss Devils Hockey.

Both sides have this issue, but it seems more apparent with goaltending because it's one dude. On the other side it can be structure, coaching, lack of execution, single player mistakes, full on breakdowns or miscommunications.

One side says this goalie stinks, and the other side has a list of issues and if they forget to put the disclaimer that they also think the goalie stinks, everything they said, good point or not, gets ignored because they forgot to say "goalie bad" for one post.

It's exhausting.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Probably the constant apologetics. And you’re just underrating how bad the goaltending has been. You just said this team isn’t winning anything with “league average goaltending”. I don’t believe that’s the case, at all. We’d do a great deal of winning if we get that. And once you’re in, anything can happen.

Feel free to believe that, I don't agree. In the playoffs where any kind of mistake usually ends up a goal and a team that seemingly can't limit these...just don't see it.

Because people here discuss the defensive mistakes. People have discussed the flaws in our defensive system since forever. Ruff’s coaching gets criticized.

Lol, no they don't. Every single goal it's vitek sucks, paraphrased.

 

[Guttersniped]

No it's not, but there's so many immature people here crying about Vitek when posters like @guitarguyvic (and me to an extent) is trying to make a point about this team as a contender. This team, as is, even with a different league avg goaltender is not going anywhere and why all the bashing about the goaltending is so stupid.

I don’t care about someone else’s mythical “contender” status, it’s about making the playoffs.

A team doesn’t magically one day wake up a contender, and then breeze through the regular season with no struggles so while I’m disappointed with the rocky start, them’s the breaks, no one promised you a rose garden, etc.

I’ve seen teams better than ours play pretty badly during a season, which can have their ups and downs, particularly due to injury. In fact overcoming adversity is good for a young team so making the playoffs this year is still a worthy goal.

I would personally prefer if the team wasn’t knee capped by a broken goalie so I will discuss goaltending. Sorry. I’m going to continue to watch and attend games this season, so that’s still important to me.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Feel free to believe that, I don't agree. In the playoffs where any kind of mistake usually ends up a goal and a team that seemingly can't limit these...just don't see it.

Disclaimer: I’m aware that xGs aren’t perfect, it’s been discussed ad nauseam.

Last year we gave up 2.42 xGA per game at 5 on 5. This year we’re giving up 2.4 xGA per game at 5 on 5. We broke the franchise points record and beat the Rangers with a hot Igor in the playoffs last year.

 

[njdevil26]

I find it amusing that Sorokin, one of the best goalies in the game, has given up 5 to the Devils on 3 occasions. Once in preseason and twice during the regular season.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I do still love Vitek the guy. Hope he can figure this out.

 

[MasterofGrond]

When people (justifiably) are frustrated by an entire season to date of piss poor play and post angrily when VITEK gives up 4 (again) and you come in and say “WELL ACTUALLY” I think it’s perhaps understandable that it comes across a little as “VITEK doesn’t suck”

Maybe that’s fair and maybe it’s not, but when you make snarky devils advocate BUT SOROKIN GAVE UP 5 posts idk what you expect man

 

[Devs3cups]

I do still love Vitek the guy. Hope he can figure this out.

I think we all do tbh. He’s a fun guy and he seems like a good human. I think most separate the person from the play. He just hasn’t been good enough.

 

[devilsblood]

Disclaimer: I’m aware that xGs aren’t perfect, it’s been discussed ad nauseam.

Last year we gave up 2.42 xGA per game at 5 on 5. This year we’re giving up 2.4 xGA per game at 5 on 5. We broke the franchise points record and beat the Rangers with a hot Igor in the playoffs last year.

Man, you are so lucky you put in that disclaimer, cause my trigger finger is itching like a mudder.

 

[Guttersniped]

Both sides have this issue, but it seems more apparent with goaltending because it's one dude. On the other side it can be structure, coaching, lack of execution, single player mistakes, full on breakdowns or miscommunications.

One side says this goalie stinks, and the other side has a list of issues and if they forget to put the disclaimer that they also think the goalie stinks, everything they said, good point or not, gets ignored because they forgot to say "goalie bad" for one post.

It's exhausting.

I don’t want to blow anyone’s mind but there aren’t two sides unless someone projects a side onto someone so they can debate a “the goalie sucks” straw man. (I know, I know… Bleed, but goalie talk and ranting is his life blood.)

For example, I have some issues with the teams play, both offensively and defensively, and I also thought Vitek was an absolute hot mess last night.

If the Islanders were a better offensive team, or he stayed in, they could have won because he looked bad early on and wasn’t going to stop shit after the onslaught started.

We’ve had a goalie problem for years and we still do now. It sucks. It is what it is.

The team can’t shelter a mess in net, so while I would love for the team to control every game like they did against Pittsburgh and Buffalo, that’s an impossible ask. They did have those two great games recently, and played better later in general, so there’s reasons to be optimistic.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Oh, I’m sorry that other people’s immediate responses to goals against on the GDT don’t meet your high bar of… something.

Clearly it’s way more productive to complain discuss and analyze all the nuances of play that you personally discuss and analyze in your comments because those kind of comments make the New Jersey Devils get better. Or something.

It's not about my standards. I'm not trying to prevent anyone from posting whatever they want. I just find it hilarious when there's a wide open guy that gets a goal and it gets followed up with 50 vitek sucks posts. You guys do you.

 

[Bleedred]

Akira doesn't start more because he isn't a good starter, but he's a GREAT reliever! He gets a lot of saves!

 

[devilsblood]

I don’t want to blow anyone’s mind but there aren’t two sides unless someone projects a side onto someone so they can debate a “the goalie sucks” straw man. (I know, I know… Bleed, but goalie talk and ranting is his life blood.)

For example, I have some issues with the teams play, both offensively and defensively, and I also thought Vitek was an absolute hot mess last night.

If the Islanders were a better offensive team, or he stayed in, they could have won because he looked bad early on and wasn’t going to stop shit after the onslaught started.

We’ve had a goalie problem for years and we still do now. It sucks. It is what it is.

The team can’t shelter a mess in net, so while I would love for the team to control every game like they did against Pittsburgh and Buffalo, that’s an impossible ask. They did have those two great games recently, and played better later in general, so there’s reasons to be optimistic.

I'm pretty tapped out on this discussion but you think it's only Bleed? C'mon.

And Vitek was good through an early xGA onslaught.

Vitek was broke by a 5 minute stretch mid game that included a breakaway, a rebound goal at the doorstep and an unstoppable backdoor one timer.

 

[Guttersniped]

I need to tap out because I’m getting unreasonably testy but Vanecek was depressing to watch live last night.

And yes, we got real loosey goosey doing the goal onslaught, the team just shit it’s pants when they went down 2-1 due to a brain fart while pushing for offense.

And that was depressing too.

The comeback was great though lol.

It's not about my standards. I'm not trying to prevent anyone from posting whatever they want. I just find it hilarious when there's a wide open guy that gets a goal and it gets followed up with 50 vitek sucks posts. You guys do you.

I deleted that post because it read way too obnoxious when I re-read it. I apologize for that, I didn’t need to jump all over your comment like that.

 

[Clam Jensen]

View attachment 775149

Yea I’m just here for the jokes, making obvious statements, and getting sweet sweet likes. If I ever make a serious comment, alert the local authorities.

 

[devilsblood]

Akira doesn't start more because he isn't a good starter, but he's a GREAT reliever! He gets a lot of saves!

Wachter, Wachter?

 

[Bleedred]

Wachter, Wachter?

What does Erika have to do with that?

 

[Bleedred]

I need to tap out because I’m getting unreasonably testy but Vanecek was depressing to watch live last night.

And yes, we got real loosey goosey doing the goal onslaught, the team just shit it’s pants when they went down 2-1 due to a brain fart while pushing for offense.

And that was depressing too.

The comeback was great though lol.



I deleted that post because it read way too obnoxious when I re-read it. I apologize for that, I didn’t need to jump all over your comment like that.

I thought he looked even worse when goals weren’t being scored than he did on the goals that were scored against him. I commented early in the 2nd period when it was still either 1-1 or maybe even after we took the lead 2-1 how he was swimming and on his belly a lot and how it was a bad sign of lack of confidence on his part. I think players are also playing scared in front of him because of how frequently he gets scored on.

The only goal that was bad was the first goal. And I’ve not been putting the poor PK on the goalies this year (it’s mostly because we can’t get clears and get trapped in our end for long stretches), but I thought that was a pretty stoppable puck that hit him and still went in.