Writer and actors on STRIKE. Most main stream TV and Movies come to a stand still

[RandV]

It isn't nearly as small of a minority as you seem to think. And if you think what I highlighted is offbase then please explain what you mean by "wokeness", since that's essentially become a term that means something different to everyone that uses it

It's also not as big as '50% of this country'. These are also shows produced for a global market, to which can push it closer towards minority status.

Looking at Marvel here, the biggest 'offenders' end up being ones like Captain Marvel and She Hulk. To me this just looks like capitalism, there's an extensive line up of male super hero's so they have that market covered but Disney/Marvel see untapped potential with the female market want to expand more into the female market. Which is, you know, half the population, and at the end of the day with the entertainment industry it really just comes down to capitalism. Yet these become the biggest targets for being 'in your face' about 'pushing a woke agenda'.

Seeing Avatar brought up kind of made me realize something here. There is a strong anti-colonialism message in it, but apparently they're not 'in your face' about it. Is that really the case, or is it more that you have to have an understanding of that point in history to see it and the majority of people don't? I feel like what this is all really about is that it's less that 'Hollywood' has changed and more that social media happened and now there's a massive content creation industry to get people primed to be angry at specific things.

 

[MMC]

My man, you accuse people of over-dramatizing a day after you asserted you're being fed a social agenda you don't agree with at every opportunity.

I do agree that if you don't like something don't watch it. But if that truly is the case for you why are you so amped up on this issue. Find something else to watch. Plenty of choices... unless you really do think everything is pushing an agenda. In that case, please refer back to point one.

Also, powerful people in the government aren't actively working to make the lives of the Kings players more difficult. So i am not sure your analogy totally works.

Difference is I’m critiquing the content itself rather than arguing there’s something wrong with those enjoy it/are the target audience whereas those that are responding to me are not. I’m giving my stance as to the state of the industry and why people are apathetic.

People are coming in here and saying why they are apathetic towards the industry and it’s content and are being met with an attack on their personal morality. Those who oppose this content are not doing that to those who enjoy it (at least not in this thread).

 

[MMC]

A perfect example, gilmour giving his critique of the scripts in a lot of content now and being met with this in response from SDJ

It is fairly easy to understand.

Gullible insecure idiots are being gaslit by people like Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro and others of their ilk.

That's what the "backlash" against "wokeness" is.

 

[#37]

I haven't seen Barbie... but I read an interesting article with an interview from Ryan Gosling. He basically said, 'No one gives a $h!t about Ken.' Then the article went on to talk about Ken, who was basically an accessory for Barbie, as a major symbol of objectification and exploitation. It was pretty interesting...

EDIT: This should probably be in the Barbie thread, but felt like it fit in this one considering the trend over the last couple of pages.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

A perfect example, gilmour giving his critique of the scripts in a lot of content now and being met with this in response from SDJ

I would buy your excuse if you did not do the EXACT same thing in a soccer thread this week.

You clearly have an issue with certain subjects being brought up. That's fine, but do not say that it is about the quality of the content. It is about you not liking certain things being talked about.

 

[MMC]

I would buy your excuse if you did not do the EXACT same thing in a soccer thread this week.

You clearly have an issue with certain subjects being brought up. That's fine, but do not say that it is about the quality of the content. It is about you not liking certain things being talked about.

Not really sure why you’re acting like I’m trying to deny this, I don’t think I really am. This is (partially) what I’m referring to when I say “critiquing the content”. Though it’s not the subjects themselves as it is the way it’s handled now

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Not really sure why you’re acting like I’m trying to deny this, I don’t think I really am. This is (partially) what I’m referring to when I say “critiquing the content”. Though it’s not the subjects themselves as it is the way it’s handled now

Well, I can respect the honesty.

Now, my question is, what is "the way it is being handled?"

I honestly do not think it changed that much. The subjects themselves, yes. The way ideology is used in art... no.

 

[Ben Grimm]

It would have been worth it to me if this started 10 years ago, we had no Hollywood TV and movies for 10 years, and SW EPs 7-9 had never happened. I'm not kidding.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Oh it’s very true for any movies/shows people have heard of or that gets pushed/advertised to death. You and I will disagree on that.

There are around 150 - 200 major releases in North America each year (not including the big releases on streaming services). Over half of those movies are not pushing an agenda. If they are you would have to type them all in there to prove it.

Movies and various services losing money may be caused by more than just going woke or shoehorning in an agenda into a past proven moneymaker. It's more nuanced than that usually. Some of these movies are poorly written or living off fumes of their predecessors.

Some of the products that are supposedly driven by a certain ideology are not going broke. Remember a couple years ago when Netflix was going woke. People were crowing, "See! Go Woke Go Broke!" when Netflix dropped subscribers, not accounting for people other factors like COVID shutdowns ending thus people not feeling the need to pay for the service they were likely not going to use that much over the next several months given they could finally go out and socialize again. That and increased competition from the other streaming services likely played a role in the declining subscriber base.

Netflix subscriber base stabilized shortly thereafter and continues to increase to this day despite policies that some would consider anti-consumer. So much for Go Woke, Go Broke.

 

[MMC]

Well, I can respect the honesty.

Now, my question is, what is "the way it is being handled?"

I honestly do not think it changed that much. The subjects themselves, yes. The way ideology is used in art... no.

I think the biggest example of the issue I have is Strange World. A movie so focused on trying to hit as many diversity quotas as possible (LGBT main character, mixed race family) that flopped like a motherf***er because they did absolutely nothing to create a compelling storyline or do any amount of world building. There are other major movies that have this problem for reasons that aren't related to pushing a particular social agenda (John Carter), but it's clear that in recent times this has been moved to the forefront rather than actually producing storylines, worldbuilding lore, or characters of value.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I think the biggest example of the issue I have is Strange World. A movie so focused on trying to hit as many diversity quotas as possible (LGBT main character, mixed race family) that flopped like a motherf***er because they did absolutely nothing to create a compelling storyline or do any amount of world building. There are other major movies that have this problem for reasons that aren't related to pushing a particular social agenda (John Carter), but it's clear that in recent times this has been moved to the forefront rather than actually producing storylines, worldbuilding lore, or characters of value.

So basically, the problem is bad writing, not the social issues.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

So basically, the problem is bad writing, not the social issues.

He already said as much, but then flip-flopped pretty hard like five posts later, so who could say what his actual stance is?

A movie that didn't preach their message in an obnoxious way that managed to make people feel alienated. If more movies managed to do it like that, they probably wouldn't lose so much money.

People don't care for this content and don't watch it, it's nothing more complicated than that. I don't need to morally defend not watching Kings games, it's accepted that I'm not going to watch a team I don't care for. Same thing applies to this content.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The whole social justice thing is such a stupid aspect to focus on from the get go, as if it’s okay for executives to screw over their writing staff just because they write stuff you find preachy or forced.

 

[Jovavic]

This thread needs a blizzard warning, good Lord, go touch grass

 

[JustNapalmIt]

If every once and awhile someone came out and addressed “social justice” nobody would say much. The problem is it’s nonstop everyday in the news, schools, movies, tv, sports ect…. shoved in everyone’s face all the time saying “ if you don’t agree with absolutely every point being made you’re a bigot/racist “ that’s where people have enough. Such tolerance. Such bravery

The next time an athlete or a filmmaker decides it’s time to speak out against bullshit in society, or the assholes who who support it, I’ll pass along your outrage.
Sometimes a spade is a shovel.

 

[JustNapalmIt]

What a shitshow this thread has become.

yes, it’s surprising a doll and a bunch of elite women athletes who want common decency and equality in society can create such hatred and outrage.
Crazy times

 

[MMC]

So basically, the problem is bad writing, not the social issues.

Well, my point is that I think the reason for the decline in writing in many cases is because they're neglecting it to focus on trying to be diverse/inclusive and to hook viewers in by trying to be socially relevant rather than actually focusing on making captivating storylines and characters. I don't think it's a coincidence that what's widely considered to be Marvel's best recent project, GOTG3 doesn't really have any of that.

 

[Hasbro]

Hey guys, is it woke for writers to be paid their fair share? Asking for a friend.

The languages of the Earth are incapable of conveying a term horrible enough for what that is!

Well, my point is that I think the reason for the decline in writing in many cases is because they're neglecting it to focus on trying to be diverse/inclusive and to hook viewers in by trying to be socially relevant rather than actually focusing on making captivating storylines and characters. I don't think it's a coincidence that what's widely considered to be Marvel's best recent project, GOTG3 doesn't really have any of that.

So no animal rights themes?

 

[Osprey]

He already said as much, but then flip-flopped pretty hard like five posts later, so who could say what his actual stance is?

To be fair, several others have made or agreed with posts suggesting that "wokeness" is nonsense, as well as posts suggesting that it's nothing new, so it's hard to tell what many people's actual stances are. I think that we should try to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that their positions are somewhere in the middle, rather than contradictory, though. It's not an easy subject to express one's position on. It's one reason why I've stayed out of this debate so far.

yes, it’s surprising a doll and a bunch of elite women athletes who want common decency and equality in society can create such hatred and outrage.
Crazy times

Indeed. In another era, you might not think that a film bringing awareness to child sex trafficking would receive so much backlash, but most critics chose to not even review Sound of Freedom and the thread for it here actually got closed because of what many perceived to be hidden motives behind the film. It's natural to express criticism (or "hatred and outrage") when we don't like something or the motive that we suspect is behind it. I think that we should keep that in mind before we ridicule or accuse others for their "outrage."

 

[Scandale du Jour]

To be fair, several others have made or agreed with posts suggesting that "wokeness" is nonsense, as well as posts suggesting that it's nothing new, so it's hard to tell what many people's actual stances are. I think that we should try to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that their positions are somewhere in the middle, rather than contradictory, though. It's not an easy subject to express one's position on. It's one reason why I've stayed out of this debate so far.

Indeed. In another era, you might not think that a film bringing awareness to child sex trafficking would receive so much backlash, but most critics chose to not even review Sound of Freedom and the thread for it here actually got closed because of what many perceived to be hidden motives behind the film. It's natural to express criticism (or "hatred and outrage") when we don't like something or the motive that we suspect is behind it. I think that we should keep that in mind before we ridicule or accuse others for their "outrage."

I mean, with Sound of Freedom, the controversy mostly comes from WHO is behind the film and what their stence of the subject matter of the movie is (ie they peddle conspiracy theories). It becomes incredibly difficult to take the film at face value. From what I understand, the movie itself is not that controversial.

 

[Osprey]

I mean, with Sound of Freedom, the controversy mostly comes from WHO is behind the film and what their stence of the subject matter of the movie is (ie they peddle conspiracy theories). It becomes incredibly difficult to take the film at face value. From what I understand, the movie itself is not that controversial.

That was my point, that the backlash has more to do with people's opinions of the filmmakers and their beliefs than with the actual content of the movie. Similarly, a lot of content that some call "woke" can be difficult to take at face value because of the people behind it and what they've said to promote it.

 

[93gilmour93]

The next time an athlete or a filmmaker decides it’s time to speak out against bullshit in society, or the assholes who who support it, I’ll pass along your outrage.
Sometimes a spade is a shovel.

If you go turn the tv on right now you should get that opportunity in about 20-30 minutes

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

That was my point, that the backlash has more to do with people's opinions of the filmmakers and their beliefs than with the actual content of the movie. Similarly, a lot of "woke" content can be difficult to take at face value because of the people behind them and what they've said to promote them.

It’s also a largely fictionalized, vanity project version of what’s supposedly a true story that does more to hurt than harm the cause. Even trafficking survivors say as much.

Trafficking Survivors and Advocates Are Being Harassed by ‘Sound of Freedom’ Fans

Survivor leaders in the anti-trafficking movement are attempting to confront the issues around the surprise blockbuster film – and facing a hail of invective in the process.

www.vice.com

 

[Shareefruck]

I haven't kept up with this discussion, but it is a pretty weird subject that I always catch myself seemingly flip-flopping about.

There are definitely things that feel "woke" to me in an inorganic and forced way that hurts the product in a way that I scoff at, so I can't in good conscience call it nonsense, but at the same time, whenever I hear anyone complain about wokeness, my brain also automatically goes "Oh, f*** this guy."

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

I haven't kept up with this discussion, but it is a pretty weird subject that I always catch myself seemingly flip-flopping about.

There are definitely things that feel "woke" to me in an inorganic and forced way that hurts the product in a way that I scoff at, so I can't in good conscience call it nonsense, but at the same time, whenever I hear anyone complain about wokeness, my brain also automatically goes "Oh, f*** this guy."

There are times these things absolutely feel awkward or shoehorned in. In Rise of Skywalker JJ Abrams made a big deal about having a lesbian kiss and it’s just an awkward, out of place moment during the final celebration. Why was that needed? Then again, that whole movie was worse than any prequel.

On the other hand, anyone who says something is “woke” or drops a “woke agenda” just makes my eyes glaze over and lose any interest in taking them seriously.

If you really think the “woke agenda” is everywhere, it’s what you’re consuming that’s telling you that. And I don’t mean the media you think I mean.