Writer and actors on STRIKE. Most main stream TV and Movies come to a stand still

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Anyone think Marvel has gotten too woke, I've got some bad news for you about Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

Marvel has always been more diverse than DC traditionally. The MCU issue has nothing to do with being "woke":

-Comic reading peaked from around 1985-1995 (Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, Todd McFarland, Jim Lee, While Portaccio etc. join the industry, Spider-Man #1, X-Men #1, etc.) so that age group which is between 35-50 are the ones who are paying for their kids to go to the movies. Marvel's A-Listers are and have always been Spider-Man, X-Men, Hulk, Fantastic Four. All of those characters were licensed to other film studios and there was or still is a delay in getting MCU version of films out. They did very well with the Avengers-related characters (mostly their B-tier) but they've run out of other characters to use.


-The whole "we're dysfunctional but need to work together as a team" and "we're going to joke in really tense situations and break the fourth wall" has gotten old and boring. Have some fortitude and do X-Men in Genosha (X-Tinction Agenda) where nothing funny happened. Daredevil Born again I hope does this.


Basically MCU is counting down until they can release an X-Men movie and they're almost guaranteed to mess it up by doing Phoenix version 3.0, or have the wrong lineup of X-Men.

 

[MMC]

The languages of the Earth are incapable of conveying a term horrible enough for what that is!


So no animal rights themes?

If that’s your takeaway from my post, you read it wrong

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Movies will always be political. Even a "conservative" decade like the 80s you had Veerhoven, Carpenter, Cameron, Kotcheff, and other directors with very strong anti corporate, anti greed, anti materialism/consumerism messages.

One of my favirote eras of Hollywood is the early 70s when Pam Grier became the biggest star on the planet and martial arts films were big. That was very political.

The main issue today is that going to the movies just isn't a fun experience anymore. It was an event. There's been a lack of that the last decade. Even those B-tier studios like Orion, New Line, Cannon,etc. you weren't getting academy award winning performances, but there was joy and thrill in seeing it.

Movies now are all either too tied to a known franchise or rely too much on inside jokes/fan service. When studios actually allow for some creators to breath and create original content, movies will be fun again.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Marvel has always been more diverse than DC traditionally. The MCU issue has nothing to do with being "woke":

-Comic reading peaked from around 1985-1995 (Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, Todd McFarland, Jim Lee, While Portaccio etc. join the industry, Spider-Man #1, X-Men #1, etc.) so that age group which is between 35-50 are the ones who are paying for their kids to go to the movies. Marvel's A-Listers are and have always been Spider-Man, X-Men, Hulk, Fantastic Four. All of those characters were licensed to other film studios and there was or still is a delay in getting MCU version of films out. They did very well with the Avengers-related characters (mostly their B-tier) but they've run out of other characters to use.


-The whole "we're dysfunctional but need to work together as a team" and "we're going to joke in really tense situations and break the fourth wall" has gotten old and boring. Have some fortitude and do X-Men in Genosha (X-Tinction Agenda) where nothing funny happened. Daredevil Born again I hope does this.


Basically MCU is counting down until they can release an X-Men movie and they're almost guaranteed to mess it up by doing Phoenix version 3.0, or have the wrong lineup of X-Men.

I trust Feige a hell of a lot more than I trust the jamokes who were running Marvel the first two times.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I trust Feige a hell of a lot more than I trust the jamokes who were running Marvel the first two times.

He needs a good crew just like an NHL coach needs a good staff.

He's dried up recently.

Also not every MCU thing has to directly relate to each other. It's ok for characters to never meet in person or for it to be delayed until a relevant plot point.

For X-Men as an example (I'm a huge fan in case you haven't noticed)......they can be self-contained for three or four movies and then all of a sudden, they end up in or back in Genosha when some of The Avengers show up along with Shuri representing Wakanda and Namor representing Talokan and they can have a big geo-political debate with Cyclops (I'd prefer he not start out in the movies but is brought in later) about the state and what to do with it.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

He needs a good crew just like an NHL coach needs a good staff.

He's dried up recently.

Also not every MCU thing has to directly relate to each other. It's ok for characters to never meet in person or for it to be delayed until a relevant plot point.

For X-Men as an example (I'm a huge fan in case you haven't noticed)......they can be self-contained for three or four movies and then all of a sudden, they end up in or back in Genosha when some of The Avengers show up along with Shuri representing Wakanda and Namor representing Talokan and they can have a big geo-political debate with Cyclops (I'd prefer he not start out in the movies but is brought in later) about the state and what to do with it.

Iger cutting back on output will hopefully help him with some quality control. I’m not in the group that says Marvel is terrible anymore. It doesn’t have the same quality as Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame but not many movies (franchise or not) have that quality. It’s definitely in a transition period and some projects have rougher spots than others.

I wouldn’t be shocked if Deadpool 3 then the two Avengers movies establishes mutants/X-Men in the MCU and then they’re left to do their own thing from there until the next Big Bad/Galactus type calls for another massive team up.

I just saw that Marvel comics is turning away from Avengers as the big publication to X-Men, so guessing this is the ship starting to turn course.

 

[Hierso]

So basically, the problem is bad writing, not the social issues.

That's actually pretty much my own personal opinion. I don't mind a movie/show with a political message as long as it's good. Hack writers has been around since the dawn of motion pictures. I really tried to like the new Twillight zone from Jordan Peele (i like most of his movies) but compared to the original series it was garbage.

 

[Shareefruck]

It can be partly both, though, and is more like a high risk high reward thing rather than a completely incidental non-factor, IMO.

Bad writing is the outcome that makes it bad, but misguided obsession with pushing social issues too hard can at times be the fuel that causes the bad writing, I suspect. It takes a better writer to make something that pushes social issues in a way that's well written and tasteful (and when done successfully, that factor generally heightens the work rather than hurts it). When you choose to tackle something like that, you're choosing to ambitiously walk a tightrope that you otherwise didn't have to walk on and will make you look like a fool if you don't completely nail it.

Whether or not that means creators should attempt it more or less because of that is another story.

It's similar to the effect that so-called "pretentiousness" (or whatever you would call the attitude that leads to pretentiousness) has, I feel. It's just way more loaded.

Personally, as someone who only cares about the peaks and couldn't give a rats ass about the shitty movies being potentially made even shittier by "agendas", I couldn't really care less, though. The types of people likely to fall into a trap like that probably wouldn't have made anything worthwhile anyways, IMO.

 

[Osprey]

It can be partly both, though, and is more like a high risk high reward thing rather than a completely incidental non-factor, IMO.

Bad writing is the outcome that makes it bad, but misguided obsession with pushing social issues too hard can at times be the fuel that causes the bad writing, I suspect. It takes a better writer to make something that pushes social issues in a way that's well written and tasteful (and when done successfully, that factor generally heightens the work rather than hurts it). When you choose to tackle something like that, you're choosing to ambitiously walk a tightrope that you otherwise didn't have to walk on and will make you look like a fool if you don't completely nail it.

I agree, and I think that the problem is exacerbated by the recent glut of programming and competition. More programming means lesser quality writers and more competition means more pressure to appeal to the most viewers and stand out. The result is content that isn't good to begin with, but is sometimes made worse by trying too hard to be contemporary and provocative.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

It can be partly both, though, and is more like a high risk high reward thing rather than a completely incidental non-factor, IMO.

Bad writing is the outcome that makes it bad, but misguided obsession with pushing social issues too hard can at times be the fuel that causes the bad writing, I suspect. It takes a better writer to make something that pushes social issues in a way that's well written and tasteful (and when done successfully, that factor generally heightens the work rather than hurts it). When you choose to tackle something like that, you're choosing to ambitiously walk a tightrope that you otherwise didn't have to walk on and will make you look like a fool if you don't completely nail it.

Whether or not that means creators should attempt it more or less because of that is another story.

It's similar to the effect that so-called "pretentiousness" (or whatever you would call the attitude that leads to pretentiousness) has, I feel. It's just way more loaded.

Personally, as someone who only cares about the peaks and couldn't give a rats ass about the shitty movies being potentially made even shittier by "agendas", I couldn't really care less, though. The types of people likely to fall into a trap like that probably wouldn't have made anything worthwhile anyways, IMO.

At the end of the day it's all about the characters and getting an emotional feeling (love, hate, anger, root for, root against, etc). from them. A huge problem is Hollywood in the last ten years stopped creating and writing good realistic characters and either writes them as an allegory/idea, or as a trope.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

. Reading your response tells me you really don’t understand the backlash against woke Hollywood and why places like Disney are losing so much money. People more and more everyday don’t want these movies/shows anymore,

Disney is losing money- though more accurately "only" managing an underwhelming profit- because we're in a transistory period of media communication. Disney is investing heavily into streaming, thinking (imo correctly) that it's the future- but we're not there yet, so they're raking in massive losses on the "direct to consumer" end only barely covered by the theme parks and films and cruises and geriatric television stations.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Disney is losing money- though more accurately "only" managing an underwhelming profit- because we're in a transistory period of media communication. Disney is investing heavily into streaming, thinking (imo correctly) that it's the future- but we're not there yet, so they're raking in massive losses on the "direct to consumer" end only barely covered by the theme parks and films and cruises and geriatric television stations.

Disney has been a dumper fire all year. They have lost $900 MILLION from their 8 movies they put out, and that is not even taking into considering whatever the marketing costs were for those movies, so it's likely well over a billion.

Oh but they can make some of that when they sell the rights to those movies to Netflix/Prime etc...NOPE, because they will just keep them on their Disney+, which they are also increasing the rate to which will create more people to cancel their memberships.

Disney has also fired 7,000 people.

Like it or not, Disney going woke and been very very bad for them. Oh well, just glad I sold my Disney stock a few years ago.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Disney has been a dumper fire all year. They have lost $900 MILLION from their 8 movies they put out, and that is not even taking into considering whatever the marketing costs were for those movies, so it's likely well over a billion.

Oh but they can make some of that when they sell the rights to those movies to Netflix/Prime etc...NOPE, because they will just keep them on their Disney+, which they are also increasing the rate to which will create more people to cancel their memberships.

Disney has also fired 7,000 people.

Like it or not, Disney going woke and been very very bad for them. Oh well, just glad I sold my Disney stock a few years ago.

If only this were easy to disprove.

Oh wait.

And now Elemental has turned a tidy profit.

Disney, Despite ‘Indy’ & ‘Elemental’ Misfires, Leading 2023 Global Box Office With $3.4B

Disney Leads 2023 global box office with $3.4 billion despite Indiana Jones, Elemental bombing

deadline.com

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

They have lost $900 MILLION from their 8 movies they put out

The only source I can find for this is some rando Youtuber.

Like it or not, Disney going woke and been very very bad for them.

Why, because they had a series of flops? You're right, that's never happened in the history of cinema until 2023.

Like it or not, Disney going woke

What does this mean? Can you give specific examples?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The only source I can find for this is some rando Youtuber.



Why, because they had a series of flops? You're right, that's never happened in the history of cinema until 2023.

There are plenty of sources. Look harder.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Like it or not, Disney going woke

What does this mean? Can you give specific examples?

There are plenty of sources. Look harder.

Then you should easily find one that doesn't cite the rando Youtuber.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

edit -not even worth it

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

That's why it's not worth even trying to have a discussion with you.

Can't even cite a specific example. How sad.

 

[Osprey]

If only this were easy to disprove.

Oh wait.

And now Elemental has turned a tidy profit.

Disney, Despite ‘Indy’ & ‘Elemental’ Misfires, Leading 2023 Global Box Office With $3.4B

Disney Leads 2023 global box office with $3.4 billion despite Indiana Jones, Elemental bombing

deadline.com

That article says nothing about profits or losses. It simply lists grosses. We can guestimate the profits or losses from the grosses, however.

As the article states, Disney's 7 theatrical films this year have grossed $1.35B domestically and $2.05B internationally. Studios get to keep about 60% of domestic receipts and 30% of international receipts, which works out here to $0.81B + $0.615B = $1.425B total that Disney has gotten back from those 7 films. That may seem like a lot, but those 7 films cost, on average, about $240M apiece to make, or $1.68B combined. Disney then had to market them. The rule of thumb for marketing budgets is 50% the size of the production budgets, so $120M per film in this case, or $840M for all 7. That adds up to a total cost of $2.52B. Subtracting the $1.425B that they made reveals a loss of $1.095B. Add the projected losses from their 8th film, Haunted Mansion, and it goes even higher.

In other words, Disney has, indeed, lost well over $1B on its theatrical films this year.

Also, Elemental has not turned a profit. $150M domestic + $293M international translates to only $90M + $87.9M = $177.9M that Disney has gotten back against its $200M production budget. Adding $100M for marketing makes the deficit $122.1M.

 

[raideralex99]

What does this mean? Can you give specific examples?

Are you seriously?
I could give you lots of examples but it would get deleted by the mods and I would be suspended.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I could give you lots of examples

Then do it.

 

[Hasbro]

If that’s your takeaway from my post, you read it wrong

My takeaway was that you are trying to brand any under performance as a result of a philosophy you don't care for, but to keep that confirmation bias going you have to throw out a film that PETA praised as not being "woke".

 

[Jovavic]

Sound of Freedom has cast a light on child trafficking, you could say it has woke up alot of people that were asleep on the issue, therefore the movie is actually woke

 

[93gilmour93]

Disney is losing money- though more accurately "only" managing an underwhelming profit- because we're in a transistory period of media communication. Disney is investing heavily into streaming, thinking (imo correctly) that it's the future- but we're not there yet, so they're raking in massive losses on the "direct to consumer" end only barely covered by the theme parks and films and cruises and geriatric television stations.

Well in the example of the new Indiana Jones movie they’ve now just broke even. It takes a special screw up to not be making money off an existing franchise that’s always been a cash cow like Indiana Jones. That’s one of many examples and it’s not just due to a transaction period. It’s much bigger than that.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Well in the example of the new Indiana Jones movie they’ve now just broke even. It takes a special screw up to not be making money off an existing franchise that’s always been a cash cow like Indiana Jones. That’s one of many examples and it’s not just due to a transaction period. It’s much bigger than that.

...or people remember the last Indiana Jones movie that was made and were not excited about this one as a result.