Writer and actors on STRIKE. Most main stream TV and Movies come to a stand still

[Babe Ruth]

Or maybe, just maybe, you have a hard time accepting that, now more than ever, a lot of the movies and TV shows produced are not targeted towards you.

What you call pandering, I call going after a new demographic that was not targeted before.

Respectfully, I think you are the one who is missing what is actually happening here.
The audience for the comic book movies, (etc) that are being race & gender swapped are still overwhelmingly male, and to a lesser degree (but still mostly) Caucasian.
The character swaps are not designed to broaden the audience, they're happening for ideological reasons.. which is to proselytize & lecture the audience they know is majority male (& Caucasian).

A perfect example was the recent She-Hulk series. Some male viewers were upset because in the finalé, there was a patronizing depiction of male comic book fans as petty incels. That stereotype wasn't inserted to recruit/"target" more female viewers, it was a direct insult transmitted to the audience they know is overwhelmingly male.
For you to believe all the ethnic & gender changes are for audience expansion, is a pretty naive and generous attribution.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Respectfully, I think you are the one who is missing what is actually happening here.
The audience for the comic book movies, (etc) that are being race & gender swapped are still overwhelmingly male, and to a lesser degree (but still mostly) Caucasian.
The character swaps are not designed to broaden the audience, they're happening for ideological reasons.. which is to proselytize & lecture the audience they know is majority male (& Caucasian).

A perfect example was the recent She-Hulk series. Some male viewers were upset because in the finalé, there was a patronizing depiction of male comic book fans as petty incels. That stereotype wasn't inserted to recruit/"target" more female viewers, it was a direct insult transmitted to the audience they know is overwhelmingly male.
For you to believe all the ethnic & gender changes are for audience expansion, is a pretty naive and generous attribution.

For you to think all the ethnic & gender changes are done to insult the white man is... pretty paranoid?

Shows do get preachy at times, but I doubt the goal is to alienate a large part of the audience. I truthfully think the goal is to make shows targeting other demographics. She-Hulk was CLEARLY tageted at women.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

As for modern "wokeness" I'd love to introduce some folks to the 1970s where All in the Family and other Normal Lear-produced shows that centered and normalized minority characters dominated TV while film was going through a well-documented largely youthful and liberal minded revolution. (Widely considered to be a creative golden age FWIW).

I'd also love to bring you into the 1980s where the tenor of popular entertainment turned extremely pro-business and capitalism and a very Ronald Reagan-y USA! USA! Might of Right Military Destroy All Foreign Threats.

We could jump back to the 50s and 60s while we're at it and the constant messaging of idealized 2.5 kids suburban living and "classic American values" (Largely conservative). Some people want a return to this. I think they have hats. But make no mistake, this is every bit as political.

If I didn't know any better I'd say entertainment is a reflection of our society at any given moment... not the other way around. They're not leaders. They're followers.

But I can be anti-Hollywood too. You know what I despise? The historic preponderance of movies that paint the Confederacy as noble family men who were just fighting for something they believed in as opposed to the traitors to this country they actually were. You want some real damage -- Hollywood was front and center for codifying and valorizing a whitewashed stance on the Civil War that poisons this country to this very day. Now are they all secret secessionists? I don't think so. I think they just see compelling stories and money. But that's not very woke if you ask me.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Of course there is more bad shows... because there are more shows period.

Woke debates aside, this is the most important practical point. Because of streaming, there is so much more content out there. So much more to watch. So much more to complain about.

But it dilutes everything. It dilutes viewers. It dilutes quality. And it makes it just a little harder to find the good stuff because there's so much to sift through.

Blessing and curse of our times.

Viewers and ratings are down not because entertainment (and sports for that matter) are "woke." It's down because there are so many other options than there were 5-10 years ago and certainly longer.

 

[Cas]

A perfect example was the recent She-Hulk series. Some male viewers were upset because in the finalé, there was a patronizing depiction of male comic book fans as petty incels.

You mean like Comic Book Guy, who is himself a parody of a stereotype that has been around since the 1920's?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

The problem is too many shows seem to put a metaphorical "Im LGBT" or whatever over their diversity characters, which is what irks people instead of just letting the character be who they are in the show and not pointing it out.

Shows that get it right and no one says a bad word about are The Wire, where no one gave a s*** that Kimma was gay or showed her partner in scenes or surprisingly Its Always Sunny. Its Always Sunny might be the best depiction of a trans character with the transvestite that Mac kept hooking up with. No one on teh show cared that she was trans and it wasn't used as promotion or a detriment to the character.

Too many shows scream "Im a token".

 

[Hierso]

The one good thing about this strike is that we might get more low to mid budget films where it's not a product by committee but rather a film-maker with a vision. It also wouldn't hurt if super heroes died off for ~20 years or so.

 

[Jumptheshark]

The one good thing about this strike is that we might get more low to mid budget films where it's not a product by committee but rather a film-maker with a vision. It also wouldn't hurt if super heroes died off for ~20 years or so.

here is the thing.

There are not many truly independent movie companies anymore.

I will use "My big fat Greek wedding"an example.

It was made for 5million and grossed £368mill world wide. IT was bought by Playtone films (tom Hanks), HBO films, Golden Circle and MPH productions. It took Nia Vardoloz YEARS to get paid. Why? According to the companies that distributed the movie? It lost 150mill and never saw a profit. MPH who bought the screen play also had to sue because they also did not get paid. Golden Circle said "all contracts were based upon NET profit and there was no net profit for the movie"

Production firm sues over 'my big fat missing pay cheque'

The original producers of last year's surprise hit My Big Fat Greek Wedding have sued the studio which made the film, saying they have not received their share of the profits

www.theguardian.com

Tom Hanks sues over "Big Fat Greek Wedding"

Actor Tom Hanks and his wife have joined the star and screenwriter of "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" in suing a film company behind the 2002 low-budget comedy hit for a share of profits they claim have gone unpaid.

www.reuters.com

Hollywood accounting at its best

 

[Hierso]

here is the thing.

There are not many truly independent movie companies anymore.

I will use "My big fat Greek wedding"an example.

It was made for 5million and grossed £368mill world wide. IT was bought by Playtone films (tom Hanks), HBO films, Golden Circle and MPH productions. It took Nia Vardoloz YEARS to get paid. Why? According to the companies that distributed the movie? It lost 150mill and never saw a profit. MPH who bought the screen play also had to sue because they also did not get paid. Golden Circle said "all contracts were based upon NET profit and there was no net profit for the movie"

Production firm sues over 'my big fat missing pay cheque'

The original producers of last year's surprise hit My Big Fat Greek Wedding have sued the studio which made the film, saying they have not received their share of the profits

www.theguardian.com

Tom Hanks sues over "Big Fat Greek Wedding"

Actor Tom Hanks and his wife have joined the star and screenwriter of "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" in suing a film company behind the 2002 low-budget comedy hit for a share of profits they claim have gone unpaid.

www.reuters.com

Hollywood accounting at its best

I also talked about how Hollywood cooks the books a few pages back when i talked about Alien & Aliens. The reason i want lower budget movies is not an altruistic one but rather for my own enjoyment in films. Lower budget tends to mean that there will be less studio interference, thus making it closer to the directors vision.

 

[MMC]

Imagine having sympathy for Hollywood

 

[Beau Knows]

Imagine having sympathy for Hollywood

Most of these writer and actors striking are just regular people trying to get by, why wouldn't you have sympathy for them?

 

[Ceremony]

Respectfully, I think you are the one who is missing what is actually happening here.
The audience for the comic book movies, (etc) that are being race & gender swapped are still overwhelmingly male, and to a lesser degree (but still mostly) Caucasian.
The character swaps are not designed to broaden the audience, they're happening for ideological reasons.. which is to proselytize & lecture the audience they know is majority male (& Caucasian).

A perfect example was the recent She-Hulk series. Some male viewers were upset because in the finalé, there was a patronizing depiction of male comic book fans as petty incels. That stereotype wasn't inserted to recruit/"target" more female viewers, it was a direct insult transmitted to the audience they know is overwhelmingly male.
For you to believe all the ethnic & gender changes are for audience expansion, is a pretty naive and generous attribution.

Why would the makers of... anything make something that insults/criticises/mocks/erases 99% of its core audience?

 

[Jumptheshark]

I also talked about how Hollywood cooks the books a few pages back when i talked about Alien & Aliens. The reason i want lower budget movies is not an altruistic one but rather for my own enjoyment in films. Lower budget tends to mean that there will be less studio interference, thus making it closer to the directors vision.

movies maybe made as low budget films but when it comes to distribution that is when the big boys get involved and start "taking their share". Making many movies is rather cheap the problem is getting them on a streaming service or theatre----that is when the Hollywood's accounting really kicks in

 

[MMC]

It is fairly easy to understand.

Gullible insecure idiots are being gaslit by people like Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro and others of their ilk.

That's what the "backlash" against "wokeness" is.

Or, maybe, people just don't want to consume entertainment that insists on tying in a real life social agenda at every opportunity?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Or, maybe, people just don't want to consume entertainment that insists on tying in a real life social agenda at every opportunity?

Yeah, sure... Now, explain the extreme vitriol directed at a movie like Barbie or at a series like She-Hulk? As illustrated before, social issues have been part of entertainment forever. What has "changed" is the socio-political climate. Disliking something is more than fine. Not agreeing with the undertone is fine aswell. Feeling attacked because a piece of entertainment has messages, it is laughable at time.

No disrespect, but you already showed your colors when you stepped out of the shadows to attack a team (USWNT) in a sport you do not follow. So I doubt the "I just wanna watch fun things" excuse works here.

 

[Beau Knows]

Or, maybe, people just don't want to consume entertainment that insists on tying in a real life social agenda at every opportunity?

Is social commentary some kind of new thing to you? Books, movies, television and music have always had something to say about current events, politics and society in general.

 

[MMC]

Yeah, sure... Now, explain the extreme vitriol directed at a movie like Barbie or at a series like She-Hulk? As illustrated before, social issues have been part of entertainment forever. What has "changed" is the socio-political climate. Disliking something is more than fine. Not agreeing with the undertone is fine aswell. Feeling attacked because a piece of entertainment has messages, it is laughable at time.

No disrespect, but you already showed your colors when you stepped out of the shadows to attack a team (USWNT) in a sport you do not follow. So I doubt the "I just wanna watch fun things" excuse works here.

I haven't seen either of those so I don't know enough to comment on either one of them. But yes, when you're telling half the country that their views are incorrect, that's understandably going to feel like an attack on large amount of people. And showed what colors? That I think this narrative is horseshit and don't like seeing it in entertainment? I mean yeah I'm not exactly hiding it.

Is social commentary some kind of new thing to you? Books, movies, television and music have always had something to say about current events, politics and society in general.

Not to this divisive of an extent

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I haven't seen either of those so I don't know enough to comment on either one of them. But yes, when you're telling half the country that their views are incorrect, that's understandably going to feel like an attack on large amount of people. And showed what colors? That I think this narrative is horseshit and don't like seeing it in entertainment? I mean yeah I'm not exactly hiding it.

Not to this divisive of an extent

Do you consider half of the USA to be bigots? I don't. Because what most pieces you want to bitch about try to do is promote inclusivity. Is it always well done? No. Is it too preachy sometimes? Yes. Is it an attack on 50% of the population? No. Is that an attack on the cisgender white man as a whole? Heck no.

Like, saying LGBTQ people should be treated fairly is not attacking anyone but people who are against their sheer existence. Putting a drag queen in an ad does not attack anyone, yet, there is a huge backlash. Attacking THOSE who are expressing bigoted views is not attacking half a country... unless you believe half of the country is bigoted... which I do not.

 

[MMC]

Do you consider half of the USA to be bigots? I don't. Because what most pieces you want to bitch about try to do is promote inclusivity. Is it always well done? No. Is it too preachy sometimes? Yes. Is it an attack on 50% of the population? No. Is that an attack on the cisgender white man as a whole? Heck no.

Like, saying LGBTQ people should be treated fairly is not attacking anyone but people who are against their sheer existence. Putting a drag queen in an ad does not attack anyone, yet, there is a huge backlash. Attacking THOSE who are expressing bigoted views is not attacking half a country... unless you believe half of the country is bigoted... which I do not.

It's impossible to have a realistic dialogue on this topic if you're going to immediately jump to extremes like saying people are against "LGBT's sheer existence". No one is saying this content/these characters shouldn't EXIST or be allowed to be created, we are saying we don't care to see it or spend our money on it. When it reaches a point where the quality of the content, storylines, writing, CGI, etc, is clearly being neglected and social agendas are at the forefront, a lot of people are going to tune out.

 

[Beau Knows]

I also find the whole "I don't have any sympathy for Hollywood" claim to be ironically, kind of "virtue signally", for lack of a less stupid phrase.

This is essentially a strike about how revenues should be shared. Having "no sympathy" for the background actors and low-level writers, really just means more money in the hands of the incredibly wealthy studio execs, like Bob Iger. Those are the guys who are running this whole thing in a way that apparently angers you so much.

So really just coming in and spouting off about "the woke agenda" doesn't do anything to DESTROY Hollywood, or the woke-ness of it. It's just an opportunity to inject a culture war into a discussion about how money should be divided between the working class and the wealthy, and if anything it distracts from the core issue and hurts the regular people who are just trying to make a living.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

It's impossible to have a realistic dialogue on this topic if you're going to immediately jump to extremes like saying people are against "LGBT's sheer existence". No one is saying this content/these characters shouldn't EXIST or be allowed to be created, we are saying we don't care to see it or spend our money on it. When it reaches a point where the quality of the content, storylines, writing, CGI, etc, is clearly being neglected and social agendas are at the forefront, a lot of people are going to tune out.

Except, most the backlash is not about that. It is bigots being angry at wokeness.

So, yes, until you acknowledge this very vocal minority who ends up doing the majority of the "critique" about social issues in shows and movies, a discussion is indeed impossible.

Hollywood has not gotten MORE preachy... as it has been demonstrated by another poster before.

 

[MMC]

Except, most the backlash is not about that. It is bigots being angry at wokeness.

So, yes, until you acknowledge this very vocal minority who ends up doing the majority of the "critique" about social issues in shows and movies, a discussion is indeed impossible.

Hollywood has not gotten MORE preachy... as it has been demonstrated by another poster before.

It isn't nearly as small of a minority as you seem to think. And if you think what I highlighted is offbase then please explain what you mean by "wokeness", since that's essentially become a term that means something different to everyone that uses it

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Or, maybe, people just don't want to consume entertainment that insists on tying in a real life social agenda at every opportunity?

Yeah man, totally. That's why Avatar is the highest grossing film of all time. People were just entertained by the pretty visuals, there were no preachy themes about colonialism, environmentalism, or militarism. No siree Bob.

 

[MMC]

Yeah man, totally. That's why Avatar is the highest grossing film of all time. People were just entertained by the pretty visuals, there were no preachy themes about colonialism, environmentalism, or militarism. No siree Bob.

A movie that didn't preach their message in an obnoxious way that managed to make people feel alienated. If more movies managed to do it like that, they probably wouldn't lose so much money.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

I don't think it's the case that an increased number of stories from diverse voices and characters has been a factor in a decline in quality in other parts of production - writing, directing, CGI, etc. I just don't see how one thing has anything to do with the other. It's certainly not budgetary as by and large salaries for performers and writers aren't breaking the bank.

Is there an example of a show that's bad and the only thing keeping it from being good is a less diverse message? Fundamentally, if you don't like the message of a movie/television show...fine...but the message is kind of the essence of it. If someone wants a movie or show or song or ad campaign to be about something else then you just want to watch something else, not that specific show but different.

I suppose any message we take from a movie or show is something we glean from it ourselves, so how one chooses to interpret something is on them. I used the TPB example on the previous page. If what someone likes about that show is the guns and the drugs and the cursing and the pratfalls and the absurdity, that's fine, that's certainly part of it, but the show IS fundamentally about acceptance and the family you choose, if there are scenes or episodes people think are too preachy (or people get upset about activism the cast makes outside the show) that's a viewer problem, not a show problem because it's not about it being too preachy it's about misunderstanding a core premise of the show.