Proposal: Would you trade Stutzle for Matthews?

[Golden_Jet]

I don't think that is absurd but I think you're discounting the value of Matthews defensively. If you think Matthews is 1-2M better offensively (better goal scorer) - how much better defensively is he? Then factor in that within the hypothetical you're getting Matthews at 1 year 11.3M + 8 years at 13.5 versus just 8 years of Stutzle and well - i'd simply just take the best player here.

Matthews 2 minutes of PK total, averaging 3 seconds a game.

Stutzle started PKing at 20 around Christmas time and has 72 minutes.
Averaging 1:13 a game since start of year., so higher average since he started actually doing it.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Matthews 2 minutes of PK total, averaging 3 seconds a game.

Stutzle started PKing at 20 around Christmas time and has 72 minutes.
Averaging 1:13 a game since start of year., so higher average since he started actually doing it.

The Leafs actively avoid playing Matthews on the PK so he can load up at 5v5. They have a ton of options on the PK - its more philosophical than about capability.

The even strength impacts defensively are worlds different between the two players.

 

[PlayItAgain]

Those saying age doesn’t matter aren’t thinking this through. Remember you’re getting Stutzle for all his prime years for 8 mill cap hit. Even if you consider the team resigns Matthews for 13-15 mill for 7 years, you’re getting a declining asset over that contract. Remember the poll isn’t asking who is a better player today. There’s no way an unbiased person votes yes to this poll. Just can’t see any scenario where you can justify it

 

[Ovi895]

Those saying age doesn’t matter aren’t thinking this through. Remember you’re getting Stutzle for all his prime years for 8 mill cap hit. Even if you consider the team resigns Matthews for 13-15 mill for 7 years, you’re getting a declining asset over that contract. Remember the poll isn’t asking who is a better player today. There’s no way an unbiased person votes yes to this poll. Just can’t see any scenario where you can justify it

Yeah, there is no realistic contract a 27yo Matthews would sign that would put him on par with 21-29yo Stutzle at 8.35 mil. Even if you get him now and then resign in 2 years you still have Matthews at 2.3 million more while not necessarily bringing 2.3 million more on the ice.

Only exception is if he signs a sweetheart deal (12 mil) in Arizona, for them it could arguably be worth it.

Only comparables to Stutzle contract-value are Hughes and arguably Thompson, with Cozens having an outside chance if he takes another step forward. It's the new MacKinnon/Drasaitl contracts.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yeah, there is no realistic contract a 27yo Matthews would sign that would put him on par with 21-29yo Stutzle at 8.35 mil. Even if you get him now and then resign in 2 years you still have Matthews at 2.3 million more while not necessarily bringing 2.3 million more on the ice.

Only exception is if he signs a sweetheart deal (12 mil) in Arizona, for them it could arguably be worth it.

Only comparables to Stutzle contract-value are Hughes and arguably Thompson, with Cozens having an outside chance if he takes another step forward. It's the new MacKinnon/Drasaitl contracts.

I think your 2.3 million number is low.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Nostril vs Member of the German Special Olympics Diving Team

I'd pick Nostril if I had to choose, but would be stressed about new contract.

Hope he prices his ass out of the Lolonto Maple Lolz

 

[Bfan14]

Arguably better player now. Who knows going forward, Stutzle is getting exponentially better every year

If you're basing it solely on just this season then sure he could be argued "better" but what Matthews did the two seasons prior were much better than current Stutzle

 

[ManofSteel55]

Matthews gets ragged on a lot here, but you take Matthews every day of the week unless you have a contract extension in place, or its only for a short term tournament or something.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yes, unless I know there's little to no chance Matthew's re-signs with me.

I know production this season makes it feel closer than it is, but unless Stutzle takes another huge step, Matthews overall game falls off significantly, or Matthews signs for the literal max contract under the cap, then Matthews is still the one you want.

He just brings much more overall value.

If you're basing it solely on just this season then sure he could be argued "better" but what Matthews did the two seasons prior were much better than current Stutzle

I think Matthews has had one season worse than current Stutzle.

 

[Tanknation]

Would I make this trade. Hmmm.

If I was a Leaf's fan, sure. Ottawa fan, not so much.

 

[Ovi895]

I think your 2.3 million number is low.

Yeah 3.3 starting next year, right now its 10 and a half million more

 

[bert]

Yes, unless I know there's little to no chance Matthew's re-signs with me.

I know production this season makes it feel closer than it is, but unless Stutzle takes another huge step, Matthews overall game falls off significantly, or Matthews signs for the literal max contract under the cap, then Matthews is still the one you want.

He just brings much more overall value.



I think Matthews has had one season worse than current Stutzle.

At the same age Stutzle has a better PPG. So not sure where you are going with this one.

 

[Captain Mountain]

At the same age Stutzle has a better PPG. So not sure where you are going with this one.

I'm not sure Stutzle's 3.28 p/60 this season compared to Matthew's 2nd worst p/60 of his career of 3.27 (2019-2020 and this season) is enough to rank Stutzle's current season ahead of either of those Matthew's seasons.

 

[Voight]

If I was Ottawa? No, cause their chances of keeping Matthews would be much slimmer than Toronto and a handful of teams.

 

[Voight]

Is that why Matthew’s numbers are down, wasn’t sustainable.

His percentage was 17.2%.... which followed seasons of 18.6, 16.2, 14.7, 18.2, 14.3 (rookie year). So last year was actually "worse" than two of his previous seasons.....

So if anything... this year is the outlier @ 12.3%.

When looking at his playoff stats, I can't think of a more overhyped player in NHL history than Mr. Matthews. The market you play in truly dictates your perception.

How many players in the history of the NHL have won the Hart/Pearson/lead the league in goals?

Not a whole lot.

(Even if you remove the Pearson/Lindsay as it hasn't been around as long as the Hart Trophy)

 

[carl jung]

No, I would not trade Stutzle for Matthews.

Matthews whole career has been merely personal stat achievements and nothing really accomplished with the team. Always feels like there could be more … but just isn’t there

Stutzle will likely have a better career because Ottawa’s roster was constructed to insulate young talent and has a vastly superior supporting cast with an adbundance of young pieces coming up

10-15 years from now, it will be rather evident that Stutzle had the better career

 

[Voodoo Child]

No, I would not trade Stutzle for Matthews.

Matthews whole career has been merely personal stat achievements and nothing really accomplished with the team. Always feels like there could be more … but just isn’t there

Stutzle will likely have a better career because Ottawa’s roster was constructed to insulate young talent and has a vastly superior supporting cast with an adbundance of young pieces coming up

10-15 years from now, it will be rather evident that Stutzle had the better career

Yes, ‘likely will’…

 

[John Mandalorian]

Is his Ceiling as high as Matthews' though? Maybe I'm wrong but I consider Matthews's season this year to be more of an anomaly than the norm. His past 3 seasons were pretty consistent as far as his pace is concerned. I expect him to rebound next year

His ceiling is elite player. So yes, he’s in the same strata especially once you consider contracts, this becomes an easy answer.

 

[blundluntman]

His ceiling is elite player. So yes, he’s in the same strata especially once you consider contracts, this becomes an easy answer.

I don't think Matthews is elite, he's a franchise player. Unless Stutzle is going to score 100 points and 50+ goals, I don't see them as the same calibre. I can understand the contract pov though

 

[John Mandalorian]

I don't think Matthews is elite, he's a franchise player. Unless Stutzle is going to score 100 points and 50+ goals, I don't see them as the same calibre. I can understand the contract pov though

He doesn't need to reach 50 goals. Points are points.

 

[DueDiligence]

How anyone is saying no is absurd. Matthews is a close generational talent. Stutzle is nice, but hes no Matthews.

As many have pointed out age and salary/cap factor heavily into the conversation.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Nice to see some have changed their minds or opinions that don’t look good now on Stutzle new contract for next year.

Confirmed Signing with Link: - [OTT] F Tim Stützle signs extension with the Senators (8 years, $8.35M AAV)

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Sensatauro]

I don't think Matthews is elite, he's a franchise player. Unless Stutzle is going to score 100 points and 50+ goals, I don't see them as the same calibre. I can understand the contract pov though

So Stutzle, whose pacing for 90 points and 40 goals in his under 21 season, has peaked already? No chance he hits an extra gear and hits 50 or 100 points?!?

This logic Matthews in his same aged season as Stu, scored 37 goals 36 assists in 68 games..

Today Stu has 31 goals 37 assists for 68 points in 60 games, in next 8 games Stu is likely to score more points then Matthews in his 20 year old season.

So yeah, Stutzle is in the same strata sphere as Matthews. It is only laughable leaf fans that think otherwise

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I initially voted 'No' but changed it to Yes.

Elite franchise centers never come on the market. When they do you have to spring for them. Even if they're having a down year.

Matthews as the #1C in Ottawa in most years would certainly mean they're a lock for the playoffs.


Yes the contract and term. But I still take that risk. You always need to take the franchise #1C

 

[blundluntman]

So Stutzle, whose pacing for 90 points and 40 goals in his under 21 season, has peaked already? No chance he hits an extra gear and hits 50 or 100 points?!?

This logic Matthews in his same aged season as Stu, scored 37 goals 36 assists in 68 games..

Today Stu has 31 goals 37 assists for 68 points in 60 games, in next 8 games Stu is likely to score more points then Matthews in his 20 year old season.

So yeah, Stutzle is in the same strata sphere as Matthews. It is only laughable leaf fans that think otherwise

I'm not a Leafs fan......... Matthews was on pace for 118 points or so last season since he missed games due to injuries. According to... Math, that's a different level of production. I don't know where Stutzle peaks which is why I originally asked whether people thought he had the same potential. Scoring was not where it is now when Matthews was that age so clearly there will be a difference. Stutzle might somehow be as good as a player with one of the best goal scoring seasons since Ovi. But until he does it, it's laughable to assume he will....

He doesn't need to reach 50 goals. Points are points.

Fair enough but by that logic, Matthews is still on another level considering he paced for 118 points or so last season barring injuries. That's not a level I've heard Stutzle being on.