Proposal: Would you trade Stutzle for Matthews?

[The Gr8 Dane]

This thread is peak HFboards.

Peak HFBoards as in the results are totally lopsided?

The way the question is posed i'm not sure how you can take Matthews over stutzle.

Poll should be like Stutzle at 8x 8.350 mill or AM34 at 8x13 mill.

Then the poll would be closer no doubt

 

[Ncit3]

I usually love German players. But I’d prefer to not watch the dude flop around every night on the ice.

 

[Random Comment]

Tim is a fine hockey player and nothing against him but he will never win an MVP and never win a rocket . Matthews is capable of winning both in a mcdavid era.

Matthews can’t even outscore Tim

 

[Ser Grogu]

Tim is a fine hockey player and nothing against him but he will never win an MVP and never win a rocket . Matthews is capable of winning both in a mcdavid era.

Nothing more needed than to review the year AM34 had last year . We know for a fact Matthews is the MvP and rocket winner ...what did Tim do last year ? How many rockets and mvps does he have? In a mcdavid era how many players right now have a legit shot at a mvp or a rocket besides AM34? Maybe one or two for the rocket...Thompson and DP from Boston...thats it...common sense rules

Yeah.. you need to sit down, actually think for more than 10 seconds, and re-evaluate your position here:

- You used a single data point (Stützle's second season) to say he conclusively would never win an MVP and/or Rocket. That makes no sense what so ever. Do you think that NHL player's typically peak in their second seasons? Especially players with such pedigree and already good track record of rapid improvement? That clearly isn't the case in reality.

- You realize Matthews didn't win a Rocket until his D+5 season and Hart until D+6 season right?

- You used Tage Thompson as an example of a player who could potentially challenge for the Rocket. Through his D+5 season, he scored 18 NHL goals in TOTAL with his D+2 total being 3. In Stützle's D+2 season (the one you used to conclude he had no chance of ever competing for the Hart or Rocket), he scored 22 NHL goals. 22 > 18. No level of your "common sense" needed there. If can think TT can challenge for the Rocket and TS cannot, there's a logical inconsistency there with what you originally said.

- Have you paid any attention at all at how Stützle's been producing this season? Especially since January 1st?

If I was your teacher or boss and received this kind of work I would be pretty..pretty...pretty disappointed.

 

[Smif]

I chose Stutzle. Nothing against Matthews and no way I’d make my decision based on a down season from Matthews, I just prefer my 1C to be a playmaker or a hybrid as opposed to a goal scoring center. I think it makes for a better team make-up.

You'd rather have a playmaking C over a two-way goalscoring C??

Forget the goalscoring / playmaking aspect, the centre position is more important to be defensively responsible and can win some draws.

 

[CatchyTune]

Thats not a move ottawa should make given Matthews upcoming UFA status next year.

Until Matthews signs an extension Stutzle is a more valuable asset to Ottawa

 

[Smif]

Stutzle wasn't in the NHL 3 seasons before his 3rd NHL season...

Nevermind if Matthews is the norm...did you think stutzle in his rookie or sophomore year would be his norm?

This year isn't his norm either imo, unless you think 18.4 SH% is sustainable. You should probably expect a 15% shooting percentage going forward for his career, which is where the elite sit. One year anomaly's are normal when they blow up an extra 3%, even McDavid is up 3.5% over his career average this year.

 

[Pi]

I honestly cannot believe this is an actual thread LMAO. This is going to age just as the Marner and Tkachuk debates.

Let it go Sens fans, your star players aren't even good enough to get you into the playoffs.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You'd rather have a playmaking C over a two-way goalscoring C??

Forget the goalscoring / playmaking aspect, the centre position is more important to be defensively responsible and can win some draws.

Ya good seeing Stutzle getting his third shorty yesterday, and stealing the puck from Matthew’s on the back check.

 

[Boud]

Stutzle has 99 points in his last 82 games as a 21 year old on a ELC with 8 more years at 8.35M. He will only get better and I see him being a top 10 player for the duration of his contract.

This contract is already a steal and will be one of the best value contracts in the NHL in a few years. Stutzle is developing nicely as a two way center as well, even playing on a PK that's 7th in the league.

With the contracts in mind I don't think it's even a question. Matthews likely makes 5M more per year going forward. What type of production do you need from Matthews to make up for that cap hit difference?

 

[Smif]

Ya good seeing Stutzle getting his third shorty yesterday, and stealing the puck from Matthew’s on the back check.

Ahh good old shortsighted rebuttal. Two nice plays in 27 mins of TOI. He was also -3 this week while Matthews was +10. We could do this back and forth all day but the outcome won't change.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

Ahh good old shortsighted rebuttal. Two nice plays in 27 mins of TOI. He was also -3 this week while Matthews was +10. We could do this back and forth all day but the outcome won't change.

Matthews > Stützle right now, but as of this year, Matthews' AAV is over 12 times Stützle's.

Next year, he'll cost about 39% more than Stützle. And the following year, assuming he gets $13M (conservative), he'll cost over 55% more....

You're not taking Matthews over Stützle if you factor in age and contract and if you are than you're probably a Leafs fan.

 

[TS Quint]

Yeah.. you need to sit down, actually think for more than 10 seconds, and re-evaluate your position here:

- You used a single data point (Stützle's second season) to say he conclusively would never win an MVP and/or Rocket. That makes no sense what so ever. Do you think that NHL player's typically peak in their second seasons? Especially players with such pedigree and already good track record of rapid improvement? That clearly isn't the case in reality.

- You realize Matthews didn't win a Rocket until his D+5 season and Hart until D+6 season right?

- You used Tage Thompson as an example of a player who could potentially challenge for the Rocket. Through his D+5 season, he scored 18 NHL goals in TOTAL with his D+2 total being 3. In Stützle's D+2 season (the one you used to conclude he had no chance of ever competing for the Hart or Rocket), he scored 22 NHL goals. 22 > 18. No level of your "common sense" needed there. If can think TT can challenge for the Rocket and TS cannot, there's a logical inconsistency there with what you originally said.

- Have you paid any attention at all at how Stützle's been producing this season? Especially since January 1st?

If I was your teacher or boss and received this kind of work I would be pretty..pretty...pretty disappointed.

That depends, is his teacher/boss a mega Leafs fan?

 

[McVespa99]

I get the argument as far as contracts go so no need for discussion there. I'm simply asking whether Stutzle is as good as Matthews given the fact that they're being compared

Pace doesn't have to be used constantly considering he outscored players regardless of his pace. My point is that he scores points at a higher level and is an efficient player. Injuries and shortages (due to covid) happen which affects totals, but the quality of play is reflected in pace relative to 82 games. He won a hart and 2 richards (and was 1 goal away from a 3rd) regardless of pace so it's not a useless talking point.

I guess for me the point is taking contracts into consideration its an easy choice for me to keep Stutzle. I would say Matthews is the better player at this point but Stutzle seems to me that he will be close enough to Matthews to more than make up for the contract difference

 

[TS Quint]

This year isn't his norm either imo, unless you think 18.4 SH% is sustainable. You should probably expect a 15% shooting percentage going forward for his career, which is where the elite sit. One year anomaly's are normal when they blow up an extra 3%, even McDavid is up 3.5% over his career average this year.

So statistically speaking what is the standard deviation in your math?

Matthews shot 17.2% last year. Are you calling that a fluke?

 

[Jerkbait]

Yeah.. you need to sit down, actually think for more than 10 seconds, and re-evaluate your position here:

- You used a single data point (Stützle's second season) to say he conclusively would never win an MVP and/or Rocket. That makes no sense what so ever. Do you think that NHL player's typically peak in their second seasons? Especially players with such pedigree and already good track record of rapid improvement? That clearly isn't the case in reality.

- You realize Matthews didn't win a Rocket until his D+5 season and Hart until D+6 season right?

- You used Tage Thompson as an example of a player who could potentially challenge for the Rocket. Through his D+5 season, he scored 18 NHL goals in TOTAL with his D+2 total being 3. In Stützle's D+2 season (the one you used to conclude he had no chance of ever competing for the Hart or Rocket), he scored 22 NHL goals. 22 > 18. No level of your "common sense" needed there. If can think TT can challenge for the Rocket and TS cannot, there's a logical inconsistency there with what you originally said.

- Have you paid any attention at all at how Stützle's been producing this season? Especially since January 1st?

If I was your teacher or boss and received this kind of work I would be pretty..pretty...pretty disappointed.

Long winded and no logic LOL...there is zero chance...zero ...you know none ...that tim would challenge for a rocket in this NHL as long as AM34, mcdavid leon DP, and take are there ...zero ..use common sense..its Ottawa....there is even less of a chance he would challenge for an MVP..remove mcdavid and he may have a 2 percent chance...insert mcdavid and he has less than 0.006% ...there is nothing that logically, mathematically, or even hypothetical that supports this..not facts Stats, or history, beyond a vivid imagination of grander LOL...

Matthews can’t even outscore Tim

Didn't he last season and the year before ? Isn't mcdavid ? What about DP? Tage? Rant? Etc etc...isn't Tim tied with Nylander??? LOL..
Good kid with upside but he isn't MVP OR.ROCKET class..

Username checks out.

Don't like history or facts?

 

[blundluntman]

I guess for me the point is taking contracts into consideration its an easy choice for me to keep Stutzle. I would say Matthews is the better player at this point but Stutzle seems to me that he will be close enough to Matthews to more than make up for the contract difference

That's a fair point. As a GM I'd likely be tempted to take him as well considering the difference in their contracts. That extra cap space could really come in handy

 

[McVespa99]

That's a fair point. As a GM I'd likely be tempted to take him as well considering the difference in their contracts. That extra cap space could really come in handy

Especially since I think the estimates in the thread are conservative. Im guessing Matthews aav is 14

Long winded and no logic LOL...there is zero chance...zero ...you know none ...that tim would challenge for a rocket in this NHL as long as AM34, mcdavid leon DP, and take are there ...zero ..use common sense..its Ottawa....there is even less of a chance he would challenge for an MVP..remove mcdavid and he may have a 2 percent chance...insert mcdavid and he has less than 0.006% ...there is nothing that logically, mathematically, or even hypothetical that supports this..not facts Stats, or history, beyond a vivid imagination of grander LOL...


Didn't he last season and the year before ? Isn't mcdavid ? What about DP? Tage? Rant? Etc etc...isn't Tim tied with Nylander??? LOL..
Good kid with upside but he isn't MVP OR.ROCKET class..


Don't like history or facts?

You are talking like Stutzle needs to be the best player in the league to be a better choice than Matthews. He doesnt

 

[Ser Grogu]

Long winded and no logic LOL...there is zero chance...zero ...you know none ...that tim would challenge for a rocket in this NHL as long as AM34, mcdavid leon DP, and take are there ...zero ..use common sense..its Ottawa....there is even less of a chance he would challenge for an MVP..remove mcdavid and he may have a 2 percent chance...insert mcdavid and he has less than 0.006% ...there is nothing that logically, mathematically, or even hypothetical that supports this..not facts Stats, or history, beyond a vivid imagination of grander LOL...


Didn't he last season and the year before ? Isn't mcdavid ? What about DP? Tage? Rant? Etc etc...isn't Tim tied with Nylander??? LOL..
Good kid with upside but he isn't MVP OR.ROCKET class..


Don't like history or facts?

You're having difficulty putting together a coherent sentence. I don't think there's any point in continuing trying to explain things. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

 

[authentic]

If I could guarantee Matthews re-signs then absolutely. When healthy, he's at least a 50 goal scorer and ppg+ player. Do people really think Stutzle is better or is this more of a contract thing?

I don't get people taking the cheaper contract for the lesser player. You want the best player possible on your team then build from there.

 

[blundluntman]

I don't get people taking the cheaper contract for the lesser player. You want the best player possible on your team then build from there.

I think it depends on how the team is built around them tbf. Take Mackinnon, he's not better than McDavid but was on a cheaper contract that allowed them enough space to build a cup winning team around him. I get that his contract was about 50% cheaper which isn't the case here, but the extra space does make enough of a difference to consider

 

[authentic]

Matthews > Stützle right now, but as of this year, Matthews' AAV is over 12 times Stützle's.

Next year, he'll cost about 39% more than Stützle. And the following year, assuming he gets $13M (conservative), he'll cost over 55% more....

You're not taking Matthews over Stützle if you factor in age and contract and if you are than you're probably a Leafs fan.

Matthews > Stutzle playing hurt. Next year this comparison will look stupid. Maybe even sooner if he can make some noise in the playoffs.

 

[tapi]

Shutle is a good player, for sure. But we are comparing him to a guy who outperformed McDavid in a clear fashion last year, and who is, according to statistics, the greatest goal scorer in the modern era. So at this point it is an easy choice: Matthews >>> Shutzle

 

[K1900L]

Shutle is a good player, for sure. But we are comparing him to a guy who outperformed McDavid in a clear fashion last year, and who is, according to statistics, the greatest goal scorer in the modern era. So at this point it is an easy choice: Matthews >>> Shutzle

Matthews outperformed McDavid? When did that happen?
What are these statistics that show Matthews ahead of Ovie as the greatest goal scorer in the modern era?

 

[K1900L]

Matthews > Stutzle playing hurt. Next year this comparison will look stupid. Maybe even sooner if he can make some noise in the playoffs.

But that isn't the case. Stützle has been more important for Ottawa this season than Matthews has been for Toronto, Stützle is also outscoring Matthews while playing on a far worse team and he has been third in scoring since turning 21 in January, right behind McDavid and MacKinnon. He also is tied 4th in points since 1/1/23.

While I do agree that Matthews is the better player right now simply due to the fact that he has proven to be so for multiple years whereas Stütze hasn't, it is totally legit to point out that Stützle has had the more impressive season this far and not just that, but also has put up the 6th best season as a 20yo of all active NHL players point per game wise, also beating Matthews.