Would You Guarantee Dubas' Job For 2022-23 If It Meant Holding On To Our Futures?

[Stephen]

Shanahan hired Lou to be GM for 3 years and a senior advisor for 4 years after that - something that Lou was entirely aware of and on board with. During that time, Dubas was brought along as his successor. Shanahan stuck to the plan, and Dubas, highly sought after and deserving of the role, waited and was then offered the job. There was no "power grab" by Dubas, as you falsely claimed.

If there was a power grab, so what? The common narrative at the time was what a horrible job Lamoriello and Hunter were doing anyway by some segments of the fanbase, so what of Dubas flexing and taking over the job? (Also, this ignores the fact that Mark Hunter was also in competition to take over, so it’s clear that this transition was never set in stone). The pressure point would have been the Colorado opportunity.

Secondly, is a company man like Lamoriello going to make a fuss about being turfed by an up and coming GM? The fact that he elected to move on to a GM role a week later and didn’t stay on as a senior advisor to Dubas for the fully contracted time shows you what he thought about that situation. If he was okay with it, shouldn’t he have stayed on a la Masai and Bobby Webster?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You can't blame Dekes for defending the home team here. I also think that defending the home team becomes a shield/allows permission to create such wild posts/excuses.

WE'RE defending the home team. We want the team to win, and having a "rookie who's learning as he goes" doesn't seem to be working.

 

[4thline]

yup the poor Dubie is a genius but he banked on two failed kids he didn't draft excuse

soon to be followed by ''what other choice did he have but to ride M and M , the city would have strung him up if he traded instead of re-signing them''

It's reality that he banked on them. That he didn't draft them is immaterial.
It's reality that fanbase would have been highly critical if he moved either young. Also immaterial.

He's the GM, they were/are assets at his disposal. Whether it was a mistake that most would make doesn't change it from being a mistake. Shitty luck but them's the breaks.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I was begging him to not cave to Nylander. Check the post history. I wasn't alone. I just can't believe how brutal a job he has done. Beyond my worst fears. I just don't understand how this guy has more than a few family members behind him at this point. And mom should be wavering in her support.

Yep. Same. I probably have hundreds of posts from back then saying Nylander shouldn't get the Pastrnak contract (or anywhere close really) and let him sit if need be.

 

[Racer88]

Shanahan hired Lou to be GM for 3 years and a senior advisor for 4 years after that - something that Lou was entirely aware of and on board with. During that time, Dubas was brought along as his successor. Shanahan stuck to the plan, and Dubas, highly sought after and deserving of the role, waited and was then offered the job. There was no "power grab" by Dubas, as you falsely claimed.

Shanny should have known that Dubas was not even close to being ready to be GM

 

[hotpaws]

I can answer that. Sign them to fair market value or let them sit. They hold no leverage (the offer sheet threat was a made up Toronto narrative that doesn't apply to literally any other teams star rfa's). They would have caved.

the problem Dubie had is he had to start from the beginning

JT was a he was luxury , Dubie should have slapped 9m per on the table front loaded as well as the endorsements and let him decide if he wanted to be a leaf . Instead he gave him 11m which started the boulder rolling down a steep steep cliff and has led us to be a capped out team .

the rest of the guys would have been much more reasonable imo regardless of whether JT signed here or not

 

[egd27]

There's no patience in this fan base, which is why everyone wants to blow it up every year. Sticking with the core and persevering has never happened because of the half-wit reflex moves, but it is what needs to happen.

No patience in the fanbase? The lack of patience falls directly on the shoulders of Kid Kyle and his massive ego. An $11M shortcut that has not been, and probably won't be, recovered from.

Dubas and his need to make a name for himself at the expense of the organization is the source of impatience, not the fans.

 

[IPS]

That's not even true. We just had our best year with this core.

I'd actually wager we just had our worst year with this core.

Losing in the playoffs to a crap team like Montreal (choking a 3-1 series at that) is a grounds for firing a GM who's had no previous playoff success to fall back on.

And I really don't put much stock at all in this allegedly great regular season finish. The Canadian division was pure crap and at the end of the day it doesn't look like there's anything redeemable about finishing at the top of it. The Leafs are almost assuredly a ~4th place team in the East or Central.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If there was a power grab

There wasn't a power grab. Stop misrepresenting what happened.

The fact that he elected to move on to a GM role a week later and didn’t stay on as a senior advisor to Dubas for the fully contracted time shows you what he thought about that situation.

No, it doesn't say anything about what he thought about the Leaf situation. All it says is that Lou chose to be a GM instead of a senior advisor - something that is not all that unusual. None of this equates to a "power grab" by Dubas, which is the false claim you've been spreading.

 

[justashadowof]

Shanny should have known that Dubas was not even close to being ready to be GM

Who checked to see if Shanny was up to being the president of an NHL team? His experience was an NHL gig handing out punishments. How does that prepare someone to run a hockey team? He never even worked in an NHL team's front office in a lower role, even as a coach or scout or anything.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Shanny should have known that Dubas was not even close to being ready to be GM

Dubas was more than ready to be GM.

 

[egd27]

Montreal won't make the playoffs, you might think they are built for the playoffs but they are not built for the season that's called differently over 82 games.

You may be right, but they still have the potential to steal a number of points away from the Leafs, as does Ottawa.

I just don't believe the playoffs are a "lock" next season.

 

[Mugzy97]

Oh ok so someone not named Kyle Dubas signed those three players for $33.52 million combined cap-hit per year?

Anybody with a brain would have signed those 3 players

I'm saying you're wrong when the buck stops at the GM

 

[4thline]

the rest of the guys would have been much more reasonable imo regardless of whether JT signed here or not

An opinion which is based on nothing more than "signing Tavares bad".

Marner wanted Matthews money. Matthews wanted as much as the market would bear. Neither of which has any logical tie to 11x7

 

[IPS]

We've been highly competitive against everybody we've faced, from lower end teams to the best teams in the league.

And our shitty 2013 team was "highly competitive" with the Bruins that year (we even got closer to beating them than any of Dubas' teams!)

Holy moly these straws you're grasping for.

 

[Mickey Marner]

All three were signed by Dubas to $11M deals.

Had he not maxed out his own cap in signing those players, maybe some additional depth players could have helped.

Sorry but no matter how hard you try to spin it, the buck stops with the GM.

Right, Dubas wanted to pay premium for future performance and the players haven't lived up to their end of the bargain. That's still partially on the GM who brokered the deals. If 16 & 34 were signed to bridge deals we'd have millions more in cap space to fill out the roster instead of trying to fill out the roster with fringe NHL'ers. Also, if one of them were determined to be a problem and needed to be moved, we'd have a lot more suitors and therefore leverage with them on cheaper deals that don't end with them as free agents than we do currently. Instead we have no cap space, no picks, no series wins and seemingly no desire from management to fix the core with time winding down. Easily the worst handling of RFA contracts I've ever seen.

 

[Racer88]

Who checked to see if Shanny was up to being the president of an NHL team? His experience was an NHL gig handing out punishments. How does that prepare someone to run a hockey team? He never even worked in an NHL team's front office in a lower role, even as a coach or scout or anything.

Ya that’s probably the root of the problem

 

[hotpaws]

I was begging him to not cave to Nylander. Check the post history. I wasn't alone. I just can't believe how brutal a job he has done. Beyond my worst fears. I just don't understand how this guy has more than a few family members behind him at this point. And mom should be wavering in her support.

Dubas created the problem with Willie , instead of coming out with the ''we vs me'' bs and trying to get him on a discount as well as the whole ''this is going to take a lot longer than people would like'' crap he should have just cut to the chase and got him signed before camp .

instead he dragged it out , caved and looked like a bitch

some defend him , some defend the position of GM , others are just having there shits and giggles posting crap

 

[justashadowof]

I think that poster's right that Montreal might not even make the playoffs next season. They got built for the playoffs last summer but they really aren't built for the regular season which is going back to being a marathon of contact shinny next season. And I'll concede that this Leafs' team is built to perform in that marathon of contact shinny so they should slip into the playoffs somehow again even though they continue to lose good players that they are replacing with sad substitutes.

 

[hotpaws]

An opinion which is based on nothing more than "signing Tavares bad".

Marner wanted Matthews money. Matthews wanted as much as the market would bear. Neither of which has any logical tie to 11x7

an opinion based on fact like what players signed for in Tampa after Stamkos took a discount or in Boston

but hey you do you and keep on making fairy tales to defend Dubie

 

[Garthinater]

If you fire him now here are the 3 options .

1. Hire an internal GM, and that isn't any better.

2. Hire an external GM and in their first 5 weeks there is the Expansion Draft, Entry Draft, UFA/RFA. Just asking for a disaster. That's assuming you can hire one the same day you fire Dubas.

3. Do the three events in #2 without a GM

Those are all terrible ideas. Dubas has only been GM for 3 years. He's only had 1 season with 82 games FFS. It's really unfair to get rid of him that quick, it looks bad on the organization if a GM lifespan is 3 years.

Hell Brian Burke had 5 years, never made the playoffs, and traded 2 firsts for Kessel

Lou was only here for 3 years.

Took over a 68 point team and ended up setting a franchise record in points just 2 years later. Now he's in the semi finals.

Dubas is trash.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Dubas was more than ready to be GM.

The one thing in common for all leaf fans here (from the most negative and toxic to the biggest "homers") is that we all DESPERATELY want this team to win a cup.

But the vast majority of us would let the results speak for themselves. If the leafs won the cup this year Dubas would turn into my favourite person ever and I would 100% be admitting that I was wrong. You see... the reason I hate him is because I don't think his decisions are helping the team. And postseason results SHOW that. But if the results showed something else, I'd change.

But you've created this stance where Dubas is "right" no matter what happens. If the team fails in humiliating fashion in the first round year after year? It's "bad luck" and things out of his control. But if the team succeeds, you'll say it's 100% due to Dubas and his decisions. This is not a tenable position.

 

[ottomaddox]

WE'RE defending the home team. We want the team to win, and having a "rookie who's learning as he goes" doesn't seem to be working.

I'm with you man. That wasn't my point.

 

[PromisedLand]

New Media has promoted the ever living hell out of Dubas compared to Boomer hero Lou.

which media?

• Mirtle
• Seigel
• Johnston
• etc....

These are all morons. People are confused I guess because these are all new breed of morons compared to older breed of morons like simmons, feschuk


toronto media sucks ass and it wouldn't know what hockey is if the puck hit them right between the eyes

 

[egd27]

For a GM lifespan 3 years is nothing, give the guy a freaking chance.

Sure, if you're coming into a disaster and you have to tear it down and start over. (like the other guy)

When you inherit a 105 point team it seems reasonable to assume that you shouldn't need quite as long a runway to show progress.