Would You Guarantee Dubas' Job For 2022-23 If It Meant Holding On To Our Futures?

[ToneDog]

Plan A is promote and assistant GM to GM and cut your core 3 other management types.

Or Plan B.

You keep your current GM, letting him continue his work, who just restore stability to an organization, that he inherited coming off missing the playoffs 9 of the last 10 years, and was working in lock step with his head coach to produce a record setting season. You allow your Director of amateur scouting Hunter to continue working while giving him a slight boost up to full assistant GM as well, and you let kid Kyle walk away to another organization. You wouldn't miss a beat, and Hunter could easily replace Dubas assistant GM duties after his departure.

Its June 2018 so lets go with Plan A.

And 3 years later, here we are. Good decision Shanny.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You're coming off a 100 year franchise best regular season, after being bottom of the league just 2 years earlier, and to move to the next arbitrary Dubas as GM phase, that means your current successful GM, Director of Amateur scouting and soon your head coach would all be pushed out, with the organization coming off a game 7 playoff loss.

Coming off a good regular season, for reasons mostly unrelated to Lou. The plan (that Lou agreed to) always saw him moving away from the GM position that year, and there were reasons beyond that (and the fact that he was 75) to move on, from highly questionable, short-sighted decisions as GM, to a bad history with the type of situations the Leafs had upcoming. Lou was set to become a senior advisor, and only left once he was offered another GM job elsewhere. Hunter had done a bad job, and the contract was mutually terminated, as it likely would have regardless of what happened with the GM. Babcock stayed on as coach.

 

[Dreakmur]

We finished with a 113 point pace, great underlying metrics, and there's no evidence our competition was weaker.

113 point pace was good enough for 6th. No top 10 team played in our division.

How many years do we have to underperform our underlying numbers before people start to question what they’re really measuring? Maybe those numbers don’t mean what they think.

Tampa, Florida, and and Boston is our normal competition. You don’t think that’s better than Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary?

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas thinks he is the smartest dude ever to live on this planet. So smar that he bet his job and career on it. AND still doesn't have the decency to resign. the hypocrisy of the situation is just......

yup , GM by shot attempt stats , what could go wrong with that . lol

and your right it's time for him to back up his words and resign

 

[hotpaws]

You mean the Tampa with the documented and well known beneficial tax structure in a city of perpetual summer where players can have relative anonymity and the Boston where the great contracts stem from players breaking out *after* committing long term?

Maybe Tavares taking a steep discount could have won them over. Maybe. But his contract didn't raise their asks.

Tampa isn't the only team in the league without a state tax yet they're the only one's who get discounts ? curious

but you keep on making up fairy tales to defend Dubas because it isn't going to save his job just like the hoard of rabid Burke supporters couldn't keep him from getting kicked to the curb either

 

[Mugzy97]

The funny thing is that we are 2 years in the future and still no rfa's are getting deals like 16 and 34.

The cap was going to be rising dramatically at the time, but you conveniently left out the fact the all of a sudden COVID hit and the cap went flat. You probably think Dubas should have predicted a global pandemic right?

 

[myleafs]

There's no patience in this fan base, which is why everyone wants to blow it up every year. Sticking with the core and persevering has never happened because of the half-wit reflex moves, but it is what needs to happen.

Say what?

 

[Mugzy97]

Coming off a good regular season, for reasons mostly unrelated to Lou. The plan (that Lou agreed to) always saw him moving away from the GM position that year, and there were reasons beyond that (and the fact that he was 75) to move on, from highly questionable, short-sighted decisions as GM, to a bad history with the type of situations the Leafs had upcoming. Lou was set to become a senior advisor, and only left once he was offered another GM job elsewhere. Hunter had done a bad job, and the contract was mutually terminated, as it likely would have regardless of what happened with the GM. Babcock stayed on as coach.

Keep fighting the good fight my man!

 

[hotpaws]

Willy was a 20 goal 60 point guy and had not shown improvement from the previous season. I don't think his ask was reasonable. I was expecting Dubas to either make him sign with his comparables (Ehlers & Larkin) or sit out. I was confident Dubas was doing just that. And then he caved. That was the beginning of the end for him.

we don't know what Willies ask actually was just like we don't know what Dubas was offering

all we know were the rumors

Willie - ask was 8 but long term , maybe that was for 5 yrs or 8 , i don't remember any rumors specially saying

Dubas - most of the rumors leaked out were 6m and under depending on the term

the only thing we do know is Willie and his people didn't say a word publicly while Shanny/Dubas/Babs were doing there ''we vs me'' and taking less media campaign

edit - i think Willie was about 500k overpaid at this term and if Dubas offered the deal he signed in the summer Wllie wouldn't have missed a day of camp

 

[egd27]

Who checked to see if Shanny was up to being the president of an NHL team? His experience was an NHL gig handing out punishments. How does that prepare someone to run a hockey team? He never even worked in an NHL team's front office in a lower role, even as a coach or scout or anything.

He started strong, but his lack of experience got exposed when he got conned by Kid Kyle and the buzz words.

 

[Garthinater]

The cap was going to be rising dramatically at the time, but you conveniently left out the fact the all of a sudden COVID hit and the cap went flat. You probably think Dubas should have predicted a global pandemic right?

Right, all the other gms got a message from WHO saying that a pandemic was coming but somehow dubas missed the call.

Very good argument mugzy

 

[hotpaws]

No patience in the fanbase? The lack of patience falls directly on the shoulders of Kid Kyle and his massive ego. An $11M shortcut that has not been, and probably won't be, recovered from.

Dubas and his need to make a name for himself at the expense of the organization is the source of impatience, not the fans.

you know when the supporters start throwing out the P word their running out of excuses and getting desperate

 

[myleafs]

Nope you're wrong.

lol well I guess that settles it then

 

[keonsbitterness]

That's not what I said at all.

Second best?

 

[Garthinater]

That's not what I said at all.

If dubas isn't the best gm, then why would firing him not help the team?

Firing him would suggest we can hire a better gm (you said yourself he isn't the best) which would help the team.

Honestly your lack of logic is astounding. Its like you don't even think about what you post.

 

[myleafs]

I was begging him to not cave to Nylander. Check the post history. I wasn't alone. I just can't believe how brutal a job he has done. Beyond my worst fears. I just don't understand how this guy has more than a few family members behind him at this point. And mom should be wavering in her support.

Yea that was a tough pill to swallow. You could just feel what path we were headed down once that happened.

 

[egd27]

Marner wanted Matthews money. Matthews wanted as much as the market would bear. Neither of which has any logical tie to 11x7

Completely disagree.

A perfectly logical argument can be made that AM34 felt as the "face of franchise" he should be paid more than JT. Once AM34 was signed, MM16 argued that since he had more points that either of his $11M team mates that they were, in fact, his comparables.

It could be quite logical to assume that Dubas bought into both of those arguments.

 

[justashadowof]

He started strong, but his lack of experience got exposed when he got conned by Kid Kyle and the buzz words.

When he didn't just look the other way when Kadri was casually late for practice(s) and when he essentially blasted the players indirectly about showing him that they want to play in Toronto, I thought we had a winner here. There's very little about the culture of the current team that suggests Shanahan really meant that latter statement. I believe the culture is as dysfunctional as the 2014-15 team but the talent is so special that it's able to carry itself to a later point of failure.

 

[Dekes For Days]

How many years do we have to underperform our underlying numbers

You likely think this has happened more than it actually has, and even when it has happened, there are legitimate reasons that are ignored in favour of proclaiming that everything and everyone sucks.

Tampa, Florida, and and Boston is our normal competition.

We play more than three teams.

 

[keonsbitterness]

We play more than three teams.

Don't be obtuse. You know those are (likely) the ones we have to face in the playoffs.

 

[4thline]

Completely disagree.

A perfectly logical argument can be made that AM34 felt as the "face of franchise" he should be paid more than JT. Once AM34 was signed, MM16 argued that since he had more points that either of his $11M team mates that they were, in fact, his comparables.

It could be quite logical to assume that Dubas bought into both of those arguments.

Sure. But that's where it breaks down. 11.5 x 7, 12x7, sure. That's a contract that comes from "What you gave him? Give me more." 11.63 x 5 is so far beyond that it just doesn't connect.

 

[4thline]

Tampa isn't the only team in the league without a state tax yet they're the only one's who get discounts ? curious

but you keep on making up fairy tales to defend Dubas because it isn't going to save his job just like the hoard of rabid Burke supporters couldn't keep him from getting kicked to the curb either

I've literally said that if the kids don't deliver he deserves to be gone for making the bet on them.

 

[egd27]

That contract set the stage.

Austons agent knew from that moment on that he could get what every he wanted.

After the auston deal, marners agent had all the leverage.

The funny thing is that we are 2 years in the future and still no rfa's are getting deals like 16 and 34.

And once they got their money, the decided they didn't like the mean coach and promptly set about getting him replaced.

 

[Garthinater]

And once they got their money, the decided they didn't like the mean coach and promptly set about getting him replaced.

It's shocking how fast some fans turned on babs. Starting to look more and more like he wasn't the problem.

 

[egd27]

We finished with a 113 point pace, great underlying metrics, and there's no evidence our competition was weaker.

They just had a 56 game season where they did not play a single Top 10 NHL team. I think any rational person would agree that not playing a single Top 10 NHL team for an entire season (the only team to do so BTW) is pretty decent evidence that the competition was weaker.