Would You Guarantee Dubas' Job For 2022-23 If It Meant Holding On To Our Futures?

[rumman]

Every single Islanders playoff win is another nail in the coffin for Shanahan IMO, and another serving of crow for all the Lou-bashers...

one can hope.........

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Matthews had leverage, but Marner should have been showed the door. Last summer.

100%.

Dubas showed he was spineless with Nylander.

 

[rumman]

I’m just not on board with keeping the GM, keeping the coach and keeping the core for another year. Something has to give.

it's going to be another painful year, and in the end, we'll all be saying the same thing: "I told you so." At least the one's not living in a parallel universe............

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I guess when there's no legitimate reason to dislike Dubas and what he's done here, the only option is resorting to revising history to misrepresent him and the circumstances around his hiring, contrary to all evidence.

No legitimate reason?

PLAYOFFS???

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas paid them as much as UFAs who are proven superstars. So they should be better than proven superstars since they weren't UFAs. Since they were paid more than any comparable in history they should be better than anyone in history. Yes, what I'm saying is, it's totally Dubas's fault despite your faulty statement.

great point and i have no idea how people keep defending these deals

 

[rumman]

When our downfall this season (and last) was the inability of 2 players to deliver relative to their abilities, you make the change the counts not just change for change.

We're not having this discussion if M&M don't shoot 1.8% and deliver one combined goal. If they deliver the series is done in 5.

The only rational reason to fire him *now* is if you've lost faith in M&M and want to move on and he hasn't.

 

[4thline]

the reason GM's get fired is for the team performing poorly or do you actually believe if a GM plays it safe (whatever the f*** that's supposed to mean) he has a job for life ?

oh you do care about your HF rep that's why your going down this path to no where with the M and M are going to cost Dubie his job crap and he's really a genius and it's not his fault the team failed because everyone would have bet on M and M

Well run organizations (not just hockey) keep GM's in place through multiple competitive cycles, let alone through single and multi-year blips in performance. Generally speaking the surest way to be let go early is to try something bold and have it fail.

I've long said that the reason we went with Dubas over Lou was an internal disagreement over the importance and best handling of M&M. This isn't new. It was by far the highest leverage and most franchise defining set of decisions he's made.

 

[4thline]

Meh, the players play the games. Some of you need a scapegoat because the alternative is too hard to handle.

 

[rumman]

You don't have to know the future to evaluate prospects on more than blind hope.

your counting on these players making it like Dubas counted on the cap going up. Pretty stupid to count your chickens before they've hatch...........

 

[4thline]

100%.

Dubas showed he was spineless with Nylander.

Dubas could have set William Nylander on fire and sent him in a shipping crate back to sweden and it wouldn't have changed the Matthews negotiation one iota.

Not in the same bracket of leverage.

 

[tmlms13]

if you took into account who they played this year compared to last you'd realize it's impossible to know if they progressed

It's also impossible to know if they regressed.... But if you were forced to pick between progression and regression for the season vs last. Game 1 of regular season to Game 7 of the playoffs what would you do? And according to 60% of the people on HF he should be fired for it.

The GM doesn't play the game. He puts them in a position to succeed. I like this team a hell of a lot better heading into these playoffs without considering the opposition. I'm sure you did too.

He put them in the position to succeed and the players failed. Simple as that.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

your counting on these players making it like Dubas counted on the cap going up. Pretty stupid to count your chickens before they've hatch...........

hahahahahahahaha.

 

[rumman]

I was begging him to not cave to Nylander. Check the post history. I wasn't alone. I just can't believe how brutal a job he has done. Beyond my worst fears. I just don't understand how this guy has more than a few family members behind him at this point. And mom should be wavering in her support.

It all started going south when boy wonder hopped on a flight to Europe to appease WN, that was ground zero for me losing faith in this supposed GM.........

 

[hotpaws]

It's also impossible to know if they regressed.... But if you were forced to pick between progression and regression for the season vs last. Game 1 of regular season to Game 7 of the playoffs what would you do? And according to 60% of the people on HF he should be fired for it.

The GM doesn't play the game. He puts them in a position to succeed. I like this team a hell of a lot better heading into these playoffs without considering the opposition. I'm sure you did too.

He put them in the position to succeed and the players failed. Simple as that.

the team changed between the start of last season and this year , he improved the D by weakening the forwards , this doesn't mean it regressed or improved

all we have to go by is the results that matter and that was we lost in the first rd again in a much weaker division than the previous one

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The reason we lost the Montreal series is because Matthews and Marner didn't show up, and Tavares, who was one of Dubas' biggest moves, didn't even get to play in the series. Is that somehow Kyle's fault?


On the moves they make, the team they put together, where the team was 3 years ago compared to where it is now. I think he's done a good job, just hasn't got playoff success yet.


He's not the one who puts on the skates

The team he built failed therefore he failed. don't be a Dubas ass kisser

 

[rumman]

Dubas thinks he is the smartest dude ever to live on this planet. So smar that he bet his job and career on it. AND still doesn't have the decency to resign. the hypocrisy of the situation is just......

one of the things I hate about Dubas is he comes across as such a arrogant person. If you want to act like you know everything prove it, yet here we are having the same discussions from the previous two years with zero improvement. Pathetic........

 

[hotpaws]

Well run organizations (not just hockey) keep GM's in place through multiple competitive cycles, let alone through single and multi-year blips in performance. Generally speaking the surest way to be let go early is to try something bold and have it fail.

I've long said that the reason we went with Dubas over Lou was an internal disagreement over the importance and best handling of M&M. This isn't new. It was by far the highest leverage and most franchise defining set of decisions he's made.

even if i use the criteria you've stated Dubie should be fired for trying something bold like spending half the cap on 4 forwards and failing

we went with Dubie at the time we did because Lou got an offer from the Islanders and wanted to work with his son

Lou did an interview where he said NY contacted Shanny for permission to talk with him during the playoffs about there GM job , Lou said he didn't want to speak then but then he said they reached out again and it was obvious when it was leaked that Lou was speaking with JT while supposedly still employed by the Leafs that he in fact had left for NY .

now this doesn't mean Dubas wasn't going to be GM eventually , obviously he would have but it does mean imo Shanny didn't plan on doing it that offseason

as far your fairy tale about a disagreement about how to handle M and M's contracts i hardly doubt Shanny and Dubie were on one side wanting to give them above market deals while Lou was on the other wanting them to sign based on there comparable's especially since they also did the take less media blitz

 

[Torontonian]

I'd be okay with him blowing first round picks and good young prospects if he's acquire solid NHL players with term for our current needs (Top 6 winger or a Top 4 Dman to push Holl down to the 5-6 pair). I am not okay with him blowing first round picks and prospects for 15 games from a rental.

The past 3 years the Leafs are in win now mode and will be in win now mode for the next 3 or 4 seasons. It took us 15 years to even get to a "win now mode" so I would be okay with it. The thing is if your trading these prospects and 1sts for players with term, you can always flip them for prospects and drafts pick if its not working out for the team.

Hfboards has always had a thing for "potential" and the mystery box draft picks, I personally would rather have a player that we know what he is in the NHL in our current state.

 

[tmlms13]

the team changed between the start of last season and this year , he improved the D by weakening the forwards , this doesn't mean it regressed or improved

all we have to go by is the results that matter and that was we lost in the first rd again in a much weaker division that the previous one

Yes he improved the defense, and for how many years have we been screaming about how bad the defense is?

Are we really sure it is that much weaker though? It arguably took Montreal taking out two #1 centers to get to the Semi's and doing just fine

Anyways I'm done with this thread

 

[Garthinater]

Dubas could have set William Nylander on fire and sent him in a shipping crate back to sweden and it wouldn't have changed the Matthews negotiation one iota.

Not in the same bracket of leverage.

Doubtful.

Matthews agent saw the nylander fiasco and knew that he could get anything he wanted from dubas.

Auston wanted 13+ on an 8 year deal with a career high of 63 points. More than mcdacid.

Marner had a 90+ point season, something no leaf had done in ~20 years.

 

[Dreakmur]

You likely think this has happened more than it actually has, and even when it has happened, there are legitimate reasons that are ignored in favour of proclaiming that everything and everyone sucks.

I didn't say everyone sucked.... I said we haven't made much progress since Dubas took over.

We play more than three teams.

Yes we do. Montreal and Ottawa are the same. Vancouver added, Buffalo and Detroit subtracted.

Edmonton, Winnipeg, Montreal, Calgary, Ottawa, and Vancouver vs. Tampa Bay, Florida, Boston, Montreal, Buffalo, Ottawa, and Detroit.

The North Division was not nearly as good as our normal division.

 

[Dreakmur]

Hence they got I higher % of the cap.... maybe M&M actually fell in line to where it should be?

Matthews is close, Marner is not.

 

[4thline]

even if i use the criteria you've stated Dubie should be fired for trying something bold like spending half the cap on 4 forwards and failing

we went with Dubie at the time we did because Lou got an offer from the Islanders and wanted to work with his son



as far your fairy tale about a disagreement about how to handle M and M's contracts i hardly doubt Shanny and Dubie were on one side wanting to give them above market deals while Lou was on the other wanting them to sign based on there comparable's especially since they also did the take less media blitz

And he will be if it doesn't work next year.

It's not a question of want, it's a question of willing. They all wanted to them to take team friendly deals. Shanny and Dubas believed that they were the future and worth going out of grid to keep happy and hopefully keep long term. 100% of Lou's history says that he would have told them to piss up a rope and either strongarmed them into bridges or traded them.

 

[Dekes For Days]

your counting on these players making it like Dubas counted on the cap going up.

Neither are true. The future is irrelevant when discussing the quality of our prospect pool in the present. Dubas didn't count on changes to the cap any more than any other GM throughout the cap era.

The North Division was not nearly as good as our normal division.

1. There's nothing to support that.
2. Even if it was true, that's more a statement on our normal division's strength.
3. We play more than just our division in a "normal" year.

 

[4thline]

Doubtful.

Matthews agent saw the nylander fiasco and knew that he could get anything he wanted from dubas.

Auston wanted 13+ on an 8 year deal with a career high of 63 points. More than mcdacid.

Marner had a 90+ point season, something no leaf had done in ~20 years.

Because his agent's 2nd on the negotiation was McDavid's primary (same agency) and he knew that McDavid left money on the table. Big goal scoring american born 1st overall pick 1C that wasn't happy. He decided to go for the jugular, we decided he was worth paying. A player of far lesser stature holding out for 500k doesn't move the needle.