Would You Guarantee Dubas' Job For 2022-23 If It Meant Holding On To Our Futures?

[4thline]

and last year against a another weak team it was something else

but you keep having your internet fun because i doubt anyone on the Leafs BOD is anywhere as thrilled as you are with the Dubes performance so far

and judging by the way Dubie looked in his year end presser he isn't anywhere near as confident in his job security as you seem to be , he looked like a dead man walking to me and he's probably still dancing to save his job as we speak

Nah not dancing, but definitely stressed knowing that he's bet his career on two young players, and has to be starting to doubt that they were worthy of that bet.

 

[Bomber0104]

and last year against a another weak team it was something else

but you keep having your internet fun because i doubt anyone on the Leafs BOD is anywhere as thrilled as you are with the Dubes performance so far

and judging by the way Dubie looked in his year end presser he isn't anywhere near as confident in his job security as you seem to be , he looked like a dead man walking to me and he's probably still dancing to save his job as we speak

Yeah, this time around I noticed a total lack of accountability from him in the year-end pressers.

I guess he only felt like smugly taking blame for the team's failings when he knew he still had a coach that Shanny could fire for him.

 

[hotpaws]

If you fire him now here are the 3 options .

1. Hire an internal GM, and that isn't any better.

2. Hire an external GM and in their first 5 weeks there is the Expansion Draft, Entry Draft, UFA/RFA. Just asking for a disaster. That's assuming you can hire one the same day you fire Dubas.

3. Do the three events in #2 without a GM

Those are all terrible ideas. Dubas has only been GM for 3 years. He's only had 1 season with 82 games FFS. It's really unfair to get rid of him that quick, it looks bad on the organization if a GM lifespan is 3 years.

Hell Brian Burke had 5 years, never made the playoffs, and traded 2 firsts for Kessel

so what your saying is you can't fire Dubas until he's completely ruined the team and left the new guy nothing but ashes to build from

 

[Dekes For Days]

Overall, he's probably been slightly better than average.

Even if that's what you believe, then there's no reason to fire him.

We look better on paper, that's for sure.

Better on the ice too.

When you're a team that's supposed to be in their window, winning rounds is a big deal.

We all want to win, but it's not nearly as big of a deal in terms of projecting forward, as emotional fans would have you believe. Especially when we have only recently entered a pretty lengthy window, and we're highly competitive in those series, even while missing a massive piece like Tavares. Putting too much stock on surface results in small playoff samples is how you destroy a promising future.

If you don't know, it's ok to admit it

I already answered. You're essentially suggesting that every single prospect and every single prospect pool is the exact same across the league, and there is no way to evaluate quality. That's obviously ridiculous.

Even Dubas fans have framed this change as a clean break from the Lou and Hunter era.

Once again, since you're continuously side-stepping the discussion, that does not equate to a "power grab" by Dubas, which is the false claim you had been spreading.

 

[socko]

Putting too much stock on surface results in small playoff samples is how you destroy a promising future.

No, I think that was hiring Dubas. Lou undoubtedly would have us in a much better position.

 

[tmlms13]

so what's your saying is you can't fire Dubas until he's completely ruined the team and left the new guy nothing but ashes to build from

So by that logic you fire the GM and hire a new one every year if you don't like the result from that season? JFC

Give the guy a chance Rome wasn't built in a day. It's not his fault M&M had 1 goal.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lou undoubtedly would have us in a much better position.

There's no reason to believe that.

 

[Bomber0104]

So by that logic you fire the GM and hire a new one every year if you don't like the result from that season? JFC

You're assuming people are just upset about this season.

Or did you actually enjoy losing to the incredibly average Columbus Blue Jackets in a play-in series?

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah, this time around I noticed a total lack of accountability from him in the year-end pressers.

I guess he only felt like smugly taking blame for the team's failings when he knew he had a coach he could still have Shanny fire for him.

funny how it works with these smug prick types , he had the look of a person who had no idea what to do next since everything he touched this year turned to shit

he should have had an easy ride into the semis which would have had him prancing around like the second coming of Sam Pollock and now he's gone into hiding to try to figure out how to save his job

 

[hotpaws]

Nah not dancing, but definitely stressed knowing that he's bet his career on two young players, and has to be starting to doubt that they were worthy of that bet.

he bet his career on JT and making decisions off a spread sheet which have both have failed him so far

 

[Dreakmur]

Better on the ice too.

Actual results don't support that.

We all want to win, but it's not nearly as big of a deal in terms of projecting forward, as emotional fans would have you believe. Especially when we have only recently entered a pretty lengthy window, and we're highly competitive in those series, even while missing a massive piece like Tavares. Putting too much stock on surface results in small playoff samples is how you destroy a promising future.

We were "highly competitive" against 8th seeds. To me, that's a negative - we should be bulldozing teams like Columbus and Montreal.

We shouldn't lose to the 16th seed, even without Tavares.

I already answered. You're essentially suggesting that every single prospect and every single prospect pool is the exact same across the league, and there is no way to evaluate quality. That's obviously ridiculous.

You said there are reasons, but didn't describe any of them.

I'm not saying they're all the same. The current one always looks better because of hope factor.

 

[Stephen]

Once again, since you're continuously side-stepping the discussion, that does not equate to a "power grab" by Dubas, which is the false claim you had been spreading.

It’s an obvious dynamic that has been speculated on for the past 3 years. You don’t shop around for another job, get a promotion and then all your colleagues leave, allowing you to replace everyone in the organization with your own people and running the organization the way you want without stepping on people’s toes.

At the end of the day none of that even matters if you’re delivering a winning team.

Again, not sure why anyone would be so personally invested in Kyle Dubas.

 

[tmlms13]

I'm so happy all the posters here are able to predict the future and how to make the Leafs win the Cup. I wonder why Shanahan isn't surfing HFBoards to find his new GM.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Again, not sure why anyone would be so personally invested in Kyle Dubas.

Probably the same reason there are significantly more people who are personally invested in Lou.

 

[4thline]

he bet his career on JT and making decisions off a spread sheet which have both have failed him so far

That's what you've decided because you're too emotionally invested in the Matthews/Marner combo- it's inconceivable to you that they've been a part of the problem.

It sucks, we all had such high hopes for them. Hopefully they can deliver next year. If they do Dubas' stubbornness turns into faith and he's vindicated. If they don't we get a fresh start with an influx of assets and a bunch of cap space

 

[hotpaws]

So by that logic you fire the GM and hire a new one every year if you don't like the result from that season? JFC

Give the guy a chance Rome wasn't built in a day. It's not his fault M&M had 1 goal.

don't act like Dubie walked into a complete rebuild and people aren't giving him enough time , the team was coming off a record season with young stars , he f***ed that up and now people are pissed

sometimes in life you just have to cut your losses , this is one of thise times

 

[Dekes For Days]

Again, not sure why anyone would be so personally invested in Kyle Dubas.

I have no personal investment in him - I just like my team having a good GM. You don't have to be personally invested in somebody to call out somebody else attempting to revise history to make factually incorrect claims about them. I'd prefer that we stick to honest and truthful evaluations, and suggestions that will help the team.

 

[tmlms13]

You're assuming people are just upset about this season.

Or did you actually enjoy losing to the incredibly average Columbus Blue Jackets in a play-in series?

For a GM lifespan 3 years is nothing, give the guy a freaking chance.

Did you know that as a % of the Cap both Matthews and Marner contracts were lower than Crosby & Ovechkin second contract. And that Crosby's second contract was 5 years?

 

[hotpaws]

That's what you've decided because you're too emotionally invested in the Matthews/Marner combo- it's inconceivable to you that they've been a part of the problem.

It sucks, we all had such high hopes for them. Hopefully they can deliver next year.

it's not hard to see what your attempting , your trying to shift the blame to players not acquired by Dubas to defend his performance to date

last year it was all on Andy even though he had identical numbers to Soup who has gotten a free pass , this year it's all on M and M

but at the end of the day the guy in charge gets the glory or the blame and Dubies days are numbered

 

[Mugzy97]

So "Dubas has been good, the team is very good", but for some reason they just don't win like good teams do in the playoffs?

Strange phenomena here in Toronto...

The reason we lost the Montreal series is because Matthews and Marner didn't show up, and Tavares, who was one of Dubas' biggest moves, didn't even get to play in the series. Is that somehow Kyle's fault?

Ok I'll bite.....................what is the best way to score a GM ?

On the moves they make, the team they put together, where the team was 3 years ago compared to where it is now. I think he's done a good job, just hasn't got playoff success yet.

He hasn't turned around shit, he hasn't even won a playoff round

He's not the one who puts on the skates

 

[Stephen]

Probably the same reason there are significantly more people who are personally invested in Lou.

I’m actually not especially a Lou fan. I appreciate his success but don’t really find his program based approach and de-emphasis of star players or depressing offensive production in favour of collective success to be a model I want for my team. I don’t think the Islanders have championship potential even though they win rounds.

Philosophically I’d be much closer to Kyle Dubas. I actually like the possession game and think there’s nothing better than the way Lidstrom and Rafalski used to pitch the puck around and hold possession for the 2000s Red Wings.

But my problem with Dubas is he’s not executing the vision with actual success. So I don’t care who does it, as long as someone does it properly. Just like I don’t care about Mitch Marner if we can get someone who can do his job better.

 

[Mugzy97]

For a GM lifespan 3 years is nothing, give the guy a freaking chance.

Did you know that as a % of the Cap both Matthews and Marner contracts were lower than Crosby & Ovechkin second contract. And that Crosby's second contract was 5 years?

There's no patience in this fan base, which is why everyone wants to blow it up every year. Sticking with the core and persevering has never happened because of the half-wit reflex moves, but it is what needs to happen.

 

[hotpaws]

For a GM lifespan 3 years is nothing, give the guy a freaking chance.

Did you know that as a % of the Cap both Matthews and Marner contracts were lower than Crosby & Ovechkin second contract. And that Crosby's second contract was 5 years?

so you think they deserved as much as Sid and Ovie ?

also take a look at how long Ovie's deal was for

 

[hotpaws]

There's no patience in this fan base, which is why everyone wants to blow it up every year. Sticking with the core and persevering has never happened because of the half-wit reflex moves, but it is what needs to happen.

Dubie isn't the core and JT/Muzzin aren't getting any younger .

 

[Dekes For Days]

Actual results don't support that.

That's not even true. We just had our best year with this core.

We were "highly competitive" against 8th seeds.

We've been highly competitive against everybody we've faced, from lower end teams to the best teams in the league.

You said there are reasons, but didn't describe any of them.

I'm not looking to get into a whole prospect discussion. There are threads and forums for that. I'm merely pointing out that prospects and prospect pools can be and are evaluated all the time, and our prospect pool and pipeline is healthy and unquestionably better now than it was when Dubas took over.